Coach won't start

Topic: Coach won't start (Read 1782 times) previous topic - next topic

Coach won't start

November 03, 2018, 02:32:58 pm

Have a u280 Cummings 8.3 1995
Coach will not start power going thru starter selenide but no signal to ecu
Battery is fully charged
Wait delay light comes on but nothing when I turn the key
Any ideas
Donnie

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #1 – November 03, 2018, 02:34:08 pm

What does the Allison shift pad show/do?

What does the dash HVAC fan do with key on?

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #2 – November 03, 2018, 02:54:42 pm

Don't think that engine has a ecu if you mean computer control,try gently tapping on the starter and check connections to starter.
Are batteries fully charged?

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #3 – November 03, 2018, 03:03:39 pm

Allison pad shows like lightning bolts checking with Allison it means signal not getting from transmission to ecu
Am presently checking connections at transmission as well as the 2 solenoids under coach

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #4 – November 03, 2018, 03:06:37 pm

How old is the ignition solenoid. This happened to me it was my warning sign. I managed to get home by cycling the key and watching for the time the pad came on. You could take just one part of the booster cables and connect each side of the solenoid to test or verify

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #5 – November 03, 2018, 03:18:33 pm

Check connections at back of shift pad and at ECU. More likely a problem than at the transmission.

But, still need an answer to the "does the dash HVAC fan work with ignition on"-- that will tell us if the IGNITION SOLENOID is working properly.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #6 – November 03, 2018, 03:38:01 pm

If you are getting power to the starter solenoid but the engine will not turn over the problem is between the start solenoid and the starter itself,check the start battery voltage again and answer Brett's questions and go from there,the engine should start no matter
what the trans ecu says or does.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #7 – November 03, 2018, 04:46:31 pm

Quote from: John44 – November 03, 2018, 03:38:01 pm

...the engine should start no matter what the trans ecu says or does.

John44: I will have to disagree with you on that statement. When I had my "Snake Eyes" incident, my engine would not even try to crank as long as the transmission shift pad was showing the error indication. I believe the OP's coach will act the same...

Donnie: Where are you located? If it was cold inside your coach last night, then you might be able to clear the "Snake Eyes" by warming the transmission ECU with a hair dryer or a heat gun (on LOW). I know it sounds funny, but this has worked for more than one member experiencing exactly the same symptoms. You don't need to get the ECU HOT - just warm it up so it feels warm to your touch.

Try it, and see what happens. Below is a link to my no-start incident, with the full story of how to deal with it:

No start, with Allison "snake eyes" (Problem Solved)

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #8 – November 03, 2018, 05:04:21 pm

Chuck is correct. Snake eyes= no start. Transmission does not "understand" that it is in Neutral.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #9 – November 03, 2018, 06:04:43 pm

I understand,but for my info what is actually stopping the starter from engaging,maybe I intrepeted the starter solenoid as clicking
instead of just getting power,guess I thought if the start solenoid is clicking engine should try and turn over.Think we need more
info from the traveler.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #10 – November 04, 2018, 11:30:03 am

Here is the update
First of all to Chuck I had that happen the morning we left Nova Scotia very cool night tried Starting and snake eyes appeared was able to warm up and coach started been driving 8 days nearly 4 thousand miles and suddenly the speedometer stopped. Working and a beep in the dash
Luckily we were in benson as 3 miles from a campground
Once stopped coach would not start and snake eyes showed on pad
Changed starter solenoid still no go
Batteries full
Jumped solenoid under coach and engine started but still snake eyes
Time for a diesel tech
He showed up and tested everything even talked to the Allison tech
Power going everywhere but not powering the ecu
Looks like replacing ecu but need to get the Allison tech to do it
Need to call tomorrow to schedule appointment he has to come from Tucson hopefully it will be tomorrow
Thanks to all for your help and suggestions
Donnie

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #11 – November 04, 2018, 11:35:15 am

If you are in cold weather, take you wife's hair dryer and warm the Transmission ECM and see if the snake eyes go away, if so you need to have the EMC repaired. Bret Wolfe has the listing that repairs them.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #12 – November 04, 2018, 11:54:00 am

Donnie,

Not telling you what to do, and don't know your travel schedule, BUT...

If you can allow enough time parked where you are, I am guessing it would be much less expensive to pull your ECU and send it to John Kopalek for repair. He can tell you on the phone what his (shop) turn-around time would be. If you overnight it both ways, it might not take long to get it repaired (to good-as-new condition). Getting a brand new ECU installed by a Allison tech is gonna be pricey.

Transmission Instruments

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #13 – November 04, 2018, 12:00:06 pm

Yes, IF you need shift pad or ECU repair, John is THE MAN.

But, you still have not ruled out the IGNITION SOLENOID. If it is going out, it will not power the Allison ECU.

3rd time: When this happens, do other things that should work only with ignition on work (i.e. dash HVAC fan)??

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #14 – November 04, 2018, 12:05:20 pm

Brett,

When Donnie says (in his update, above) that he "Changed starter solenoid still no go" I'm guessing he might actually be referring to changing out his ignition solenoid. I'm just going by the context of everything else he has reported. But I could be wrong...

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #15 – November 04, 2018, 12:13:06 pm

When I heard starter solenoid I took it for the one on the starter.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #16 – November 04, 2018, 12:18:46 pm

I just figure it's more likely he would be carrying a spare ignition solenoid so he could do a quick roadside swap. You don't hardly ever hear of people replacing the actual "starter" solenoid that is physically mounted on the starter.

Of course, he could also have been referring to the "AUX" start solenoid, mounted on the isolator panel. Guess we'll have to wait for clarification...

Too many darn solenoids involved in the engine starting process!

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #17 – November 04, 2018, 06:24:24 pm

The OP made the statement
Power going everywhere but not powering the ecu
Not sure what that means.......... he should answer Brett's question about the dash air blower -- does it run ?

All of our dash instruments went dead on I81 in WV and the coach would still run, it wouldn't start up again and won't start if the ignition solenoid is defective. Drove to a NAPA and replaced it in their parking lot, on the road again in 30 minutes.

........... we have the same year and model as the OP.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #18 – November 04, 2018, 07:33:34 pm

You had me dizzy for a while,thought you were the same traveler,think I would follow your advice.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #19 – November 05, 2018, 04:29:58 pm

Sorry guys it was the ignition solenoid that I changed
The Allison dealer in Tucson has taken the tcm out and back to their shop tested it and it failed
Apparently this model is no longer available so they have to send my core to have rebuilt
2-3 days and $3500
Wow

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #20 – November 05, 2018, 04:35:36 pm

Have you talked with John K?

Post #12.

I sure would before committing to $3500!

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #21 – November 05, 2018, 05:33:30 pm

We tried to help... (Shrug)

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #22 – November 05, 2018, 05:35:20 pm

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #23 – November 05, 2018, 06:22:44 pm

Nothing lasts, period. Brett replaced ours in 2010 with the two window display. He also moved the keypad and the Pac Brake switch to a MUCH MORE ergonomic position!

Re: Coach won't start

Reply #24 – November 05, 2018, 06:30:49 pm

From what I read your going to have a better repair for less money going with John K.

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