Pex Elbow Leaking

Topic: Pex Elbow Leaking (Read 1772 times) previous topic - next topic

Pex Elbow Leaking

November 20, 2018, 11:10:39 am

In addition to my regulator leak (another post), I have a leak in one of the copper elbows that FT used in the fresh water plumbing. It is in a difficult to access spot behind the panel in the sanitary compartment. In the picture the sewer drain is to the left and the white thing is rear part of the shore power connector. I tried a repair of JB Water Weld and rescue tape on the elbow. It slowed down the leak and and we finished the trip keeping the water pump off most of the time. My repair might have worked if I had been able to stretch the rescue tape more. I was doing that before the JB weld hardened. Hard to stretch the tape with one hand and couple of fingers. All this happened before any freezing weather, and no leaks on a previous trip this year. Looks like the only solution is to cut out some of the PEX and rebuild. Will be a learning experience as I have not worked with PEX and no PEX tools. It's the center pipe in the photo, a hot water line. I can move the line some by pulling on it from the other side of the coach. I drained the tank and lines as soon as we got home. Any suggestions appreciated.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #1 – November 20, 2018, 11:16:41 am

It is going to be a bear, but shark bite fittings will help. looks like you will have to cut back and use the shark bite couplers to re-assemble.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #2 – November 20, 2018, 11:23:00 am

Jerry,

X2 craneman's comment. I've had excellent luck using both SharkBite and Blue Hawk (Lowe's) brass and white plastic push-on connectors when re-doing parts of our water system. They make every type of connector you can imagine. Just cut out the old stuff and replace with a suitable combination of fresh pipe and connectors. Only tool needed is a dedicated plastic pipe cutter to get clean square end cuts on the tubing.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #3 – November 20, 2018, 11:25:35 am

+1 on the Shark Bite. IMHO almost the best thing since sliced bread.
+1 on it being a bear. Praying you have small hands.

It looks like bits and pieces are touching each other. While in there, I would attempt to seperate them and reduce rubbing. May be belt and suspenders but heck, your in there already.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #4 – November 20, 2018, 11:27:14 am

Quote from: Moby – November 20, 2018, 11:25:35 am

It looks like bits and pieces are touching each other. While in there, I would attempt to seperate them and reduce rubbing. May be belt and suspenders but heck, your in there already.

Good use for an old piece of bicycle inner tube.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #5 – November 20, 2018, 11:36:59 am

I saw these flexible pipe connectors in Home Depot the other day. If you had to, you could use 2 or 3 of these to bring that "T" out to where you would have more room to work on it. I think they are pretty cool!

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-Push-to-Connect-x-1-2-in-Push-to-Connect-x-18-in-Braided-Stainless-Steel-Supply-Hose-U3008FLEX18LF/202812116

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #6 – November 20, 2018, 11:50:41 am

Don't know if it matters but the top crimp ring, center pex doesn't look wonderful with regard to placement. It appears cocked and the tubing doesn't extend below it. Bottom crimp ring, center pex is straight but no tubing visible below it either.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #7 – November 20, 2018, 12:00:20 pm

If that's a 'factory' plumbing job, someone sure did not think of 'the next guy'.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #8 – November 20, 2018, 12:49:38 pm

Jerry, it appears that you have Polybutylene pipe rather than Pex. Polybutylene is generally a grey color was used in houses up to around 95' or so. There were lawsuits and settlements regarding the Polybutylene degrading via chemical reactions to municipal water supplies. It tends to break down from the inside out so that the degradation is not visible from the outside. Are you sure it is the fitting leaking? I haven't heard of problems in coaches, though the Polybutylene is said to start failing at the 10 to 15 year mark. That said, there are fittings made to transition from Pex to Polybutylene. Here is a link to one by Sharkbite;
Polybutylene Conversion Couplings: 1/2 in. & 3/4 in. from SharkBite
Though Pex looks nearly identical to Polybutylene, the info on the Sharbite says that it is essential to make sure that the fitting is oriented the correct way. I have never used these fittings and though it looks to the eye like regular pex fittings could be used, I would probably want to go with fittings designed to transition from Pex to Polybutylene.
Here is a link to some info about Polybutylene;
Polybutylene Plumbing - What is Polybutylene?
Don

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #9 – November 20, 2018, 12:55:54 pm

I work with shark bites all the time; expensive, but well worth it when it comes to easier applications. Don't forget to get the removable U shaped tool for whatever size you are working with. This way, if you don't get the line pushed in all the way, you can remove it and try again! Those stainless steel flex lines make it easier when you have areas that are tight as well. Most of the time you will find those in where the water heater tanks are sold in HD. You also have the old polybutylene lines. If any need replacing, I would replace with PEX. Red for hot, blue for cold for easier identification later on down the road!

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #10 – November 20, 2018, 01:00:23 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys – November 20, 2018, 12:49:38 pm

Jerry, it appears that you have Polybutylene pipe rather than Pex. Polybutylene is generally a grey color was used in houses up to around 95' or so. There were lawsuits and settlements regarding the Polybutylene degrading via chemical reactions to municipal water supplies. I tends to break down from the inside out so that the degradation is not visible from the outside. Are you sure it is the fitting leaking? I haven't heard of problems in coaches, though the Polybutylene is said to start failing at the 10 to 15 year mark. That said, there are fittings made to transition from Pex to Polybutylene. Here is a link to one by Sharkbite;
Polybutylene Conversion Couplings: 1/2 in. & 3/4 in. from SharkBite
Though Pex looks nearly identical, the info on the Sharbite says that it is essential to make sure that the fitting is oriented the correct way. I have never used these fittings and though it looks to the eye like regular pex fittings could be used, I would probably want to go with fittings designed to transition from Pex to Polybutylene.
Here is a link to some info about Polybutylene;
Polybutylene Plumbing - What is Polybutylene?
Don

Don, guess I was typing when you posted! Duh! Yes, there are poly to Pex shark bite fittings, but I have used both and never had a problem. For one thing, that poly to Pex fitting is only available in the straight connector, nothing else, at least not yet. Have used these since the sharkbites first hit the market some 10 years ago and never had to come back to repair a leak from one!

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #11 – November 20, 2018, 01:03:12 pm

Thanks for all the replies. Thought that it was pex, but maybe not. Hard to read what is printed on the pipe. Will try to take another look and determine what it is. Wondering if it would be hard to install a manifold system. Not wondering it would be hard.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #12 – November 20, 2018, 01:07:35 pm

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – November 20, 2018, 01:03:12 pm

Thanks for all the replies. Thought that it was pex, but maybe not. Hard to read what is printed on the pipe. Will try to take another look and determine what it is. Wondering if it would be hard to install a manifold system. Not wondering it would be hard.

Jerry; you have polybutylene pipe in there! Unless you have done plumbing in the past, you might seek someone's advice that can actually look at your situation and find a solution.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #13 – November 20, 2018, 01:07:40 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys – November 20, 2018, 12:49:38 pm

Jerry, it appears that you have Polybutylene pipe rather than Pex. Polybutylene is generally a grey color was used in houses up to around 95' or so. There were lawsuits and settlements regarding the Polybutylene degrading via chemical reactions to municipal water supplies. I tends to break down from the inside out so that the degradation is not visible from the outside. Are you sure it is the fitting leaking? I haven't heard of problems in coaches, though the Polybutylene is said to start failing at the 10 to 15 year mark. That said, there are fittings made to transition from Pex to Polybutylene. Here is a link to one by Sharkbite;
Polybutylene Conversion Couplings: 1/2 in. & 3/4 in. from SharkBite
Though Pex looks nearly identical, the info on the Sharbite says that it is essential to make sure that the fitting is oriented the correct way. I have never used these fittings and though it looks to the eye like regular pex fittings could be used, I would probably want to go with fittings designed to transition from Pex to Polybutylene.
Here is a link to some info about Polybutylene;
Polybutylene Plumbing - What is Polybutylene?
Don

Jerry X2 on what don said, I'm pretty sure that is not pex tubing. I would recommend using the long flex connectors with the transition pieces from Gray(Polybutylene) to Pex. I have some experience with this type tubing and the problem you are likely to have is when you try to fix one line you will be moving the other lines around, when that happens they will start leaking also!
Don't ask how I know!!!
Chris

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #14 – November 20, 2018, 01:09:16 pm

It's probably Poly, not PEX. To use Sharkbites on my similar pipe, I had to use their Poly-PEX converter. I'd convert as much of it as you can easily reach, which would take a conversion piece at each end and then use all PEX in between.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-Brass-Push-to-Connect-Polybutylene-Conversion-Coupling-U4008LFA/202270632

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #15 – November 20, 2018, 01:29:01 pm

Ok, I am convinced that it is not PEX. It did not look like PEX at Lowes, they only had white, blue and red, no grey. Think I will let this ferment for awhile before I do anything.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #16 – November 20, 2018, 01:41:37 pm

Jerry...I would cut out that whole array of "T"'s and 90's and rebuild on the bench with PEX..... Home Depot carries the pex tool and crimp rings then Sharbite them to the old Poly.

Hans

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #17 – November 20, 2018, 05:23:56 pm

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – November 20, 2018, 01:41:37 pm

Jerry...I would cut out that whole array of "T"'s and 90's and rebuild on the bench with PEX..... Home Depot carries the pex tool and crimp rings then Sharbite them to the old Poly.

Hans

Agree.
Don't know about you, but access is much better on a bench. More gooder when you can see what you're doing.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #18 – November 21, 2018, 11:43:43 pm

There are two styles of Sharkbite Pex crimps. One has a nipple the other is a band style. Agree on trying to bench build. I bought nipple style because it was often easier to use in cramped spaces. I bench built a winterizing connection for my water pump. Also built the Maniblock heater bypass from Sharkbite fittings. Crimp tool has paid for itself several times over. Purchased at Home Depot.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #19 – November 22, 2018, 06:19:39 am

Jerry I have a set off offset head pex crimper tools . You night be able to give that fitting a resqueeze and stop that leak.

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #20 – November 22, 2018, 10:25:21 am

Off subject;
but... why did they stop making PEX, or have they??

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #21 – November 22, 2018, 10:36:58 am

PEX Information

PEX Pipe 101: All You Need to Know | Bob Vila

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #22 – November 22, 2018, 11:27:41 am

Cross-linked polyethylene - Wikipedia

Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #23 – December 17, 2018, 08:46:45 pm

Ok, here is what I did to fix my leak, at least I hope it is fixed, no water in the system in case of a freeze this winter, so haven't tested it. Studied up on PEX and polyethylene piping. There are 3 types of PEX and 3 types of fittings. Crimp, clamp, and expand the tubing and let it shrink onto the elbow, tee, whatever. The shrink method requires an expensive tool and larger diameter fittings. I decided to go with crimp rings using a tool made by IWISS as it can be used in tight areas, IWISS Combo Angle Head PEX Pipe Crimping Tool Kits Used for 1/2" & 3/4" Pex... The Sharkebite crimper was a little larger, but might have worked. Sharkebite also has tees and elbows that are push on and removable, but if removed you need a fresh piece of PEX, and they are somewhat bulky, cost more than crimp fittings. Cheaper than having to buy the tools for a simple repair though. With the crimp rings I could assemble things and make sure it fit before crimping. Except for 4 crimps I did all of them outside the compartment. There is a special connector between the PEX and PB. Although the rings are black, they are copper. The tubing and fittings I used were made by Sharkebite and were available at Lowes.

I decided To use this opportunity to upgrade the old shower hose to a faucet and install a garden hose bibb, so I can wash the coach while it is in storage. I found the faucet online for about $40 and the double swivel spout will extend well outside the compartment. It is similar to what FT used on newer coaches than mine. I also moved the flush connections to the upper panel so maybe only a little water drains out when the hose is disconnected.

After I cut out the section that had the leak, I found the real culprit was a small hole in the tubing caused by a sharp pointed screw (first picture). It might have been fixable with JB weld and rescue tape. I found the real leak after I ground and filed off most of the JB Weld looking to see if the elbow had a crack. it didn't. Needless to say I removed all the screws and ground off the sharp points. After all this I realize that I should have removed the shore power connector and disconnected the tubes at the faucet and pressure reducer when I was trying to fix the leak at Monahans. The PB tubing is somewhat flexible and maybe I could have moved it enough to make it easier to work on or look for damage. I did remove the shore power connector from the panel, but I did not disconnect the wiring, when making the repairs.

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Re: Pex Elbow Leaking

Reply #24 – December 17, 2018, 09:21:12 pm

Nice work.

jk

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