Aqua Hot protocal

Topic: Aqua Hot protocal (Read 1821 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #25 – November 25, 2018, 11:07:44 am

This was a private lot we rented for a couple weeks in Arrowhead subdivision between Gunnison and Montrose. Beautiful place but a bit short on O2. But I mistyped that, it's actually 9500'. Need to finish my coffee before I type anything.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #26 – November 25, 2018, 11:11:14 am

Quote from: folivier – November 25, 2018, 11:07:44 am

This was a private lot we rented for a couple weeks in Arrowhead subdivision between Gunnison and Montrose. Beautiful place but a bit short on O2. But I mistyped that, it's actually 9500'. Need to finish my coffee before I type anything.

Don't worry about it. When I re-read some of my posts, I can't believe I typed it. Without spell check, I would be accused of posting in Esperanto.

Pierce

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #27 – November 27, 2018, 06:37:03 pm

I thought the OP had a really good question and the gist of the first few answers was solid: "If properly serviced, the Aqua-Hot should have little or no smell" or "when it's warm enough, use the electric heat".

Larry said, "Easy to service it yourself". I did it, but wouldn't call wrestling a 12" extension on a 1/4 drive through a jumble of wires and hoses while on my side to cinch down a 10mm nut I can't see, "easy". I'd do it again, but would probably have to grade this "intermediate".

Glenn, thank you for your service. Camping with humans is an adventure in smell. I don't particularly like campfires -- probably from putting out grass fires in the VFD -- but consider it part of the deal.

As a new member, I'm amused that Aqua-Hots are so controversial. I can't say I've seen such a divisive subject in RVs. It comes up a lot on this forum!

I'll offer this: I own both a new-to-us Foretravel and a Mobile Suites 5th wheel we're moving out of. The FT has Aqua-Hot and the MS has propane heat and hot water. AH is new to us as well -- we've always had propane. I've run both of them. Neither smell much and you have to walk through the exhaust to smell either one. The AH smells a bit like an airport tarmac (burned jet fuel) and the propane smells like propane. I'm at 600 feet elevation. Since I just put the nozzle in the AH, who knows what it will smell like next week, but I'm hoping for the 2-3 years of service I've heard.

I like the OP's attempt to be considerate. That's HUGE. But, I'd worry more about the dog poop, trash, loud music, burning wet rotten wood, and drunken parties. We've been camping A LOT for the past 20 years and I've never smelled a heater. You're welcome to camp next to me. I like considerate people and like to think that I am as well.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #28 – November 28, 2018, 09:42:08 am

Quote

but wouldn't call wrestling a 12" extension on a 1/4 drive through a jumble of wires and hoses while on my side to cinch down a 10mm nut I can't see, "easy".

I'm with you, Rick. Our Aqua Hot was on a 36' and located right in the middle. With the double joey beds, access was really awkward. Glad you got yours done.
jor

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #29 – November 28, 2018, 09:55:13 am

As a new member, I'm amused that Aqua-Hots are so controversial. I can't say I've seen such a divisive subject in RVs. It comes up a lot on this forum!

Much like Ford vs Chevy If you have one you love it, and if you don't you hate it. Some what the same as slides.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #30 – November 28, 2018, 10:46:14 am

Most that hate slides never had one. Most that hate AquaHots never had one. Whatever you have is fine.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #31 – November 28, 2018, 11:44:30 am

When I first joined the forum many years ago, I posted that I had a few Roloks that had failed. When I criticized the fasteners and the bulkhead design, you would have thought I had committed heresy. Now that all of our coaches have aged, the problem is becoming more apparent and openly discussed without much controversy.

I can't imagine anyone not wanting to have an AquaHot installation. The problem as I see it is that as our coaches age and depreciate, not only are more AHs going to need maintenance but the cost to maintain them will become a larger percentage of the value of the coach. A $50K-$100K RV with a AH maintenance issue is far different than when the coach drops in value to $15K-$20 in a few years.

Some may have the unit in a easy to reach spot but others may be harder to reach to work on.

So, as more new prospective buyers join the forum, I don't think it's fair to not let them know the pros and cons of the AquaHot installation and any ideas to keep the costs to a minimum. Perhaps there should be a poll to see how many AH coaches have had a problem and the average cost to keep them in top shape.

I just purchased a diesel fired air heater so will also be subject to the higher maintenance issues of a diesel fired heater. That's one of the reasons I bought two of them so I can quickly change out the small unit when a problem arises.

Pierce

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #32 – November 28, 2018, 12:33:45 pm

As you know, we are a might younger than many of you. For some odd reason, we have an Oasis system. Not sure if this was an original owner preference or what. Are there any other FT coaches with Oasis systems? We have only needed the electric componet when traveling, As it seems to be very efficient. I suspect that the Oasis needs similar care to the AH system.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #33 – November 28, 2018, 02:43:45 pm

Quote from: pugmom – November 28, 2018, 12:33:45 pm

Are there any other FT coaches with Oasis systems?

My unit has the Oasis also pugman. Change fuel filters regularly and the burner nozzle and ignitor once. Seems the Oasis is a little easier to work on. I think FT stopped using them because AH came out with a larger capacity model versus the Oasis.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #34 – November 28, 2018, 04:01:05 pm

Oasis 3 year parts kit. Looks really expensive for what you get. How much can a spin-on filter cost? Oasis Hydronic Heating System 3 Year Service Kit | eBay
Oasis annual tune up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKGMSGZm6Es

Pierce

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #35 – November 28, 2018, 05:38:23 pm

I would try to cross reference the filter to Wix or other brand with same micron filter capacity, then see if I could adapt a Aqua hot
nozzle to the oasis and try to find an ignitor off something else that would work. You can Google the oasis information and there may be someone who has already crossed them.

My SOB last coach had electric step that quit the new motor was nearly 300.00 I you on google and found that the motor was actually a electric window motor off ford Taurus - go figure!! It was 50.00

Chris

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #36 – November 28, 2018, 06:51:02 pm

Pierce is correct that we should try to help prospective buyers understand the pros and cons of different systems, years, engines and everything else about a coach ... based on actual experience.

But I would not offer up an opinion about a Detroit Deisel engine based on what I have heard without direct experience. I might comment on an ISM11 because I have had one for 8 years. I have a slide and will comment on what benefits we see from having a slide as well as some of the mainenance and use issues we have seen. I would not say a coach without a slide is better or worse, we have never owned a FT without one. I have owned RVs with LP gas furnaces and an AquaHot. I have spent about the same amount of money keeping an older LP furnace going as I have servicing and maintaining my AquaHot over 8 years. I would always choose an AquaHot now.

What you know from personal experience has value to a prospective buyer. What you have heard or read about is second hand information. Not necessarily right or wrong but not first hand direct experience.

If maintenance costs relative to the value of your coach is the only measure then every routine maintenace operation, tire purchase, battery purchase for older coaches becomes too much except to the owners who value their coaches in ways other than money.

Everyone gets to choose what coach they want and how they maintain and use it. It is not up to you or me.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #37 – November 28, 2018, 07:53:39 pm

My actual experience includes maintaining a home heating (diesel) oil heating system with the same type of injector, a Webasto diesel heater in a Mercedes van and bus and maintaining lots and lots of diesel engines since 1968. So that has given me what I believe is a good insight into potential problems that diesel fueled devices may have and the potential service that they may require.

I've only had few minor issues with the Rolocks in our coaches but I remember in the last couple of weeks, a new member posted about his new to him coach and the big expense he incurred for a bulkhead repair. Unfortunately, he had no idea there was going to be a problem before he plunked the cash down. I think my experience in not only my repair but many years of welding and metal fabrication allow me to have an educated opinion on the aspects of bulkhead problems.

While many of us may be able to maintain our heating appliances without ever calling a repair person, a prospective buyer without the DIY experience is well served by looking carefully at the maintenance records from A to Z for the coach they are interested. Careful research is the best way to avoid potential problems ahead.

Again, everyone should get to make their own choices but educating themselves beforehand enables them to make better choices.

Pierce

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #38 – November 28, 2018, 08:07:56 pm

I guess that I was in error in calling the job of servicing the AH as easy. As many others, mine in located smack dab in the middle of the coach, I had to work over a joey bed, and yes it made my side hurt and figuring out that it took a 1/4" drive not a 3/8" drive extension to properly get the job done was part of the learning process. After working on industrial machinery of all types and persuasions for 40+ years and in every imaginable position ( including literally hanging upside down and backwards) to get into working position, I felt that it was an easy fix. My mistake.

Perhaps I should have stated that it was not a terribly difficult job for most people, with the minimum amount of effort, patience and foul language. I have found that many projects are not as difficult as I had been fearful of once I researched the subject and put hands on to it. This was one of those items. I was very worried that it would be too difficult, too intense, require more skills than I possessed. but with the proper guidance (thanks Rudy and Roger), it was a relatively quick and efficient job done.

There are those here on the forum who have done many tasks themselves which I would not even think about attempting. Others who have gone before me and I can gain knowledge and confidence from on a couple of upcoming major projects. I hope that my fears of "what if" are proven as false to me as was my learning how to service the AH.

In the long run, we all have different skills and talents. Thankfully the wonderful people on this forum are willing to share and help those of us who lack in some area or another. I will always be very grateful to those who have reached out, answered questions &/or called me with needed advice and encouragement. I only hope that I can repay to someone else down the line.

Larry

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #39 – November 28, 2018, 10:23:20 pm

Rudy does a normal service including parts for a bit over $200. If you run it every month for a single cycle that service should last 2-3 years. Cheap for the benefit. Other parts may fail but can be easily obtained. The AH is in the middle of my coach as well and I have had it completely apart to repair a motor clutch and service it several times. The first time like most things is not so easy. Some long socket extensions help. Pull the joey bed out the other end and come in from the driver's side.

I would rather have the AH there than all 3 of the 167 lb each coach batteries.

Giving a prospective buyer a balance view of what they are getting themselves into is OK. A balance view.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #40 – November 29, 2018, 12:35:43 am

I have found the servicing easy as there is no slide in that compartment on my coach. I have made a test area to check the fuel pump pressure and the rpm's under a load. The hardest thing I have encountered on the AH was replacing all the pump seals. Like Roger commented the first time is always the hardest. I could do the seals again in half the time if ever needed, they lasted 19 years so I don't think that will be necessary.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #41 – November 29, 2018, 10:46:19 am

Well, I've poked and prodded but Chuck and Roger have defended the AquaHot well. With only a glimpse into their characters the the forum provides, anyone can see that they have a long list of successful life accomplishments and have continued to apply their abilities in the realm of RV ownership and maintenance. I can tell they feel the same passion for their AH as I do for our Detroit. It is also apparent that an owner who practices pro-active maintenance should be able for minimum costs, have a reliable hydronic heating system that should not let them down. A $200 charge for normal servicing is very reasonable.

So, well done C & R !

Pierce

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #42 – November 29, 2018, 10:29:58 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – November 29, 2018, 10:46:19 am

Well, I've poked and prodded but Chuck and Roger have defended the AquaHot well.................. It is apparent that an owner who practices pro-active maintenance should be able for minimum costs, have a reliable hydronic heating system that should not let them down. A $200 charge for normal servicing is very reasonable..................

Pierce,
Recall that this whole post was started by Glenn Bienfest wondering how he might have offended his neighbor with his Aqua Hot (fumes) and asked what we all recommended to deal with that. Ignoring the diesel exhaust toxicity issues, which are a given, I'm not sure how you jump to your "minimum costs" conclusion unless you really buy into the $200/year annual maintenance myth.

Yes. Some do get by with minimal maintenance and they also may get lucky with reasonable Aqua Hot reliability experience, if not clean burns, but there are a whole host of others that carry out much better maintenance and yet they still have much worse Aqua Hot reliability experience:

I helped remove, rewind the copper tubing and reinstall one of those in a HR Navigator (chemical attack, not freezing).

I wrote about another Aqua Hot experience, in Farmington NM, on this Forum, six years ago:

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14535.msg85059#msg85059

We suffered through a neighbor at RiverBend for years that had the smaller Hydro Hot system in a top of the line American Heritage Coach. The smaller capacity Hydro Hot system needed diesel runs in order to just use the dishwasher, say nothing about showers or heating, and it was a real "stinker" in that, even though attempted numerous times (read that as $$$$$), it could never be made to burn reasonably clean.

I know of at least two other Foretravel owners that have had to replace circulator pumps and at least 4 others that have had to replace Aqua Hot control "the brain" boxes, in addition to the 2 replacements that I have in my own history. As presented in this thread, these parts may be "readily available" but they are far from inexpensive at nearly $1000 apiece (open my repair history attached), and let it be known that there are good and bad choices for the replacement components. "Going cheap" doesn't cut it! And Chuck, I have another circulator pump that could use a new seal.....when are you conducting your next rebuild class?

I consider myself to be highly pro-active with my maintenance (as you advocate) and since I have owned it, my Aqua hot has always run, but it has not been reliable and certainly has not gotten by on the implied "reasonable" $200/year that several are prone to quote here.

Below is a summary of what my system has cost us over the past four years. It is much closer to $1K/year, and I'm still not done for this year, because Rudy discovered a 3/4 inch crack in the burner combustion chamber (not noted by MOT just a few days earlier). When we get back to RiverBend, I will have to remove it and get the chamber welded up before it progresses further.

So, my Aqua Hot is easy to work on in an exterior compartment and, no, I would never exchange its location for the "once every 6 to 8 AGM Lifelines years (minimum), somebody else do the heavy lifting", interior, batteries location, although the batteries do suffer from heat there. We full time and our Aqua Hot (diesel and electric) get used regularly. I'm definitely not sure how waiting three years to look at that burner combustion chamber would have worked out for us when the crack appeared just days after MOT did a full annual service on the Aqua Hot. I doubt that it would have improved in three years.

Absent maintenance experience to the contrary, I will stick with my annual Aqua Hot maintenance, just as we did for several decades with our home, forced-hot-water furnace. Would you go 3 years between services on your home furnace, especially if you were going to be away in the south during several winter months? The Aqua Hot is an even more demanding service! Anything that cycles at 175 to 200 degrees F diesel, 185 to 210 degrees F electric, 24/7/365, and regularly travels down the road, needs more service than once each two or three years!

Anyway,
Hope this helps some people arrive at a more "balanced" viewpoint,
To some, a less than $100 cost for 16 years of Propane furnace maintenance (our U270) vs. nearly $4,000.00 cost for 4 years of Aqua Hot system maintenance (our U320) makes an impression. To others, it is just "peanuts" and trivial.
HTH,
Neal

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #43 – November 29, 2018, 10:44:24 pm

Neal I think your experience is more anecdotal versus routine. Our 97 Failed and needed service on diesel and ended up needing a couple of relays and a coil. new burner nozzle and chamber cleaning 5 years ago.

21 years. That's it AFAIK.

While individual luck is just that everyone rolls the dice when buying. New or used..

My comment to every customer was "you pay for everyone of your pleasures, and if you did not pay as much it probably was not as much fun, was it?

The aqua hot is a pleasure.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #44 – November 29, 2018, 11:10:27 pm

We are also supporters of AH. After 2 years with our present coach we have had about $800.00 of attention.

Propane is probably less expensive. Must we have AH in our next vehicle/trailer - no. It is nice for now though.

Love this Fofum.

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #45 – November 29, 2018, 11:35:19 pm

In eight years we have spent about $1200 in maintennce on our AH which included a new ignition coil and fuel pump (partly covered by a factory replacement program). I have paid for service twice and done it myself as well replaced a blower clutch. Not everyone pays $1000 a year for AH maintenance. Most pay much less.

Bottom line, maintain what you have as well as possible, use it regularly, be courteous and sensitive to your close neighbors.

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