Aqua Hot protocal

Topic: Aqua Hot protocal (Read 1821 times) previous topic - next topic

Aqua Hot protocal

November 23, 2018, 06:56:41 pm

Soooo.....my travel buddy moved his coach four spaces away from me, this morning. Thought I said something wrong.
Turns out, he didn't enjoy breathing the diesel from our Aqua Hot. We anticipate being close to our neighbors, in Mazatlan. Fortuately, we are the only big rigs here. I turned off the AH last night, but fired it up this a.m. for showers. How do you deal with this issue??

Re: Aqua Hot protocal

Reply #1 – November 23, 2018, 07:06:44 pm

Switch places?

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Reply #2 – November 23, 2018, 07:19:54 pm

If it isn't real cold out, the electric element can keep up. It did for us a couple of months ago on the Washington coast. 60-65F days and 50F at night. The Aqua Hot only burned diesel occasionally.

If that doesn't work. Perhaps buying a length of small diameter flex pipe and fashioning a roof level exit would do the trick.

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Reply #3 – November 23, 2018, 07:30:09 pm

If you haven't done this before, you might want to have it serviced properly. If it's working right, it won't hardly have any smoke or odor at all.

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Reply #4 – November 23, 2018, 07:59:47 pm

No smoke or odor out of mine. At Phoenix there was a tent less than 10 ft. away. I kept checking when it cycled to see if there was an issue.

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Reply #5 – November 23, 2018, 08:25:15 pm

No smoke and almost or no odor is normal. Serviced properly and run monthly it should be good for two to three years. Strong diesel small or if the exhaust makes your eyes sting ... time for service.

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Reply #6 – November 23, 2018, 08:38:02 pm

Agree, should be almost no Oder
Gen-turi?

Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139

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Reply #7 – November 24, 2018, 08:31:15 am

Look toget it serviced.

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Reply #8 – November 24, 2018, 08:33:55 am

Talk to Rudy and Roger Berke. Easy to service it yourself and very cost effective. Also a great way to learn a little bit more about how things work in your coach.

Larry

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Reply #9 – November 24, 2018, 12:47:44 pm

Quote from: GleamB – November 23, 2018, 06:56:41 pm

Soooo.....my travel buddy moved his coach four spaces away from me, this morning. Thought I said something wrong.
Turns out, he didn't enjoy breathing the diesel from our Aqua Hot. We anticipate being close to our neighbors, in Mazatlan. Fortuately, we are the only big rigs here. I turned off the AH last night, but fired it up this a.m. for showers. How do you deal with this issue??

Glenn,

Our engines (by and large) and Aqua-Hots do not have catalytic convertors, nor urea afterburners nor exhaust gas recirculation components, so we all generate dangerous exhaust gases.

It makes me sad when I encounter those who are so rabidly defensive of Aqua-Hot heating that they go to great lengths to deny reality and dismiss the exhaust dangers as poor Aqua Hot maintenance or sissified overreaction. The dangers inherent in burning diesel fuel should be respected and protected against, not dismissed and denied. Yet, I see that happen over and over on this Forum.

Diesel fuel combustion products are produced when ANY burner or ANY engine combusts diesel fuel. The exhaust is a complex mixture of thousands of gases and fine particles (commonly known as soot) that contains more than 40 toxic air contaminants. These include many known or suspected cancer-causing substances, such as combustion product particles, benzene, arsenic and formaldehyde. It also contains other harmful pollutants, including nitrogen oxides (a major component of urban smog).

The major pollutants associated with combustion are carbon monoxide, nitric oxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, and perhaps the most insidious, fossil fuel combustion particles small enough to be essentially invisible to the human eye (1/2 the width of a human hair at their largest). These are particles small enough to pass through the finest tissues of our lungs and into our bloodstreams. Some people tolerate that well. Other people react with great distress (more on that later).

Exposure to diesel fuel combustion products can have immediate health effects. Depending upon sensitivity, possible health effect symptoms from combustion products include eye and respiratory irritation, persistent coughing, headaches, fatigue, and dizziness. In the case of carbon monoxide, symptoms can include nausea and confusion, and, at very high levels, loss of consciousness and death. Diesel fuel combustion products can irritate the eyes, nose, throat and lungs, and it can cause coughs, headaches, lightheadedness and nausea.

In industrial studies, diesel fuel combustion products particles made people with allergies become MORE susceptible to the materials to which they were allergic, such as dust and pollen. Exposure to diesel fuel combustion products also causes inflammation in the lungs, which may aggravate chronic respiratory symptoms and increase the frequency or intensity of asthma attacks. The same studies provide strong evidence that long-term occupational exposure to diesel exhaust increases the risk of lung cancer.

OK. So that is the burned fuel oil exhaust side of the story.

The other side of the story is the physiological or personal differences side due to an individual's different inherent or induced sensitivities to this "complex mixture of thousands of gases and fine particles" in the diesel fuel combustion products. In other words, diesel fuel combustion product exhaust effects different people VERY differently.

Some people, including several of our members who have tipped their hands, could breath exhaust through a straight pipe and still beat their chests in defense of an Aqua-Hot, while others develop respiratory defensive mechanisms (allergic) symptoms when they inhale just a trace amount of the exhaust contaminants.

So a uniform dismissal of every complaint as a maintenance issue is inappropriate. Many of us have exquisitely fine tuned and maintained Aqua-Hots, but those same Aqua-Hots still exhaust the same complex mixture of thousands of gases and fine particles (commonly known as soot) that contains more than 40 toxic air contaminants.

To make things worse, few of our exhausts are elevated above roof level (in fact, most are seldom elevated). We are loaded with non-air-tight-perfect seams; i.e. - our slides, doors, bay doors, windows, A/C's, etc. Also. some owners seldom go outside and don't even realize how obnoxious their exhaust really is. And then we have the human nature side, whereby sensitive victims seldom want to "rock the boat" with their friends and neighbors. So they just quietly move or they simply put up with the eye and respiratory irritation, coughing, headaches, fatigue, nausea, confusion and dizziness that the situation creates for them but not their antagonizers.

I know that I am one of the sensitized ones in that my submariner USN service gifted me with an intolerance to petroleum fumes and petroleum combustion products. I grew up on a large farm and used to eagerly anticipate diesel tractor smoke for breakfast. I was never allergic to anything. That all ended somewhere during seven years on 90 day (+), always submerged, submarine patrols. After seven years, lots of things, far more than just petroleum byproducts, set me off big time. So I have been highly sensitized for life. And it ranges from perfumes, to tree/plant pollens, to being stuck in traffic exhaust, to Aqua-Hots, and many more. I don't care how well maintained our Aqua-Hot is, when I am outside, it still reeks, gives me headaches, makes me dizzy as it gradually deposits visible soot on the ground. I have NEVER seen one that doesn't. $K's down the road in repairs, replacements, and fine tuning in four years. I tried twice and FOT, Paul Yasbeck, MOT and (as of this summer) Rudy have all pronounced it perfect, but it still remains obnoxious to me and other sensitive people.

So be considerate, keep your Aqua-Hot in excellent operating condition, go WAY beyond reason to respect your neighbor, elevate your exhaust when possible and whenever possible (in cramped areas less than 10 to 15' between units or if tents/lesser design slides are within 25') avoid using it at all, if possible.

HTH change some minds/be more respectful,
Neal

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Reply #10 – November 24, 2018, 01:22:49 pm

I have to agree with Neal, concideration is neccessary. I'd like to add, always have a Carbon Monoxide (CO) Detector in your RV, not just for your fumes, but for fumes from neighboring rvs.

As these oderless killers have caused some to not wake up.

I most always use my: ($87.97 on Amazon, Camco CAM44461)Camco Gen-Turi RV Generator Exhaust System Camco Exhaust Systems CAM44461 not just for others, but for myself to vent the fumes higher, hopefully off and away.

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Reply #11 – November 24, 2018, 01:26:29 pm

Well said, Neal & Jack: We all share a responsibility to avoid trashing the planet (and ourselves). The only option, is this:

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Reply #12 – November 24, 2018, 02:14:56 pm

Have to agree with Neal. Our diesel generators are bad enough, especially up at altitude but AH that is not in tip top shape will really put out the pollutants. No altitude compensator so one that is "out of tune" is going to be really bad in places like the Rockies or Sierras. If you insist on a AH, why not trash the diesel version and fit the propane modes? http://www.aquahot.com/Products/Work-Ready/Propane.aspx Propane heaters will not give even 10 percent of the problems an diesel fired AH has.

I suspect the out of tune AH problems are compounded by many owners who put off a tune up because of the expense involved.

Pierce

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Reply #13 – November 24, 2018, 02:31:34 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – November 24, 2018, 02:14:56 pm

Have to agree with Neal. Our diesel generators are bad enough, especially up at altitude but AH that is not in tip top shape will really put out the pollutants. No altitude compensator so one that is "out of tune" is going to be really bad in places like the Rockies or Sierras. If you insist on a AH, why not trash the diesel version and fit the propane modes? http://www.aquahot.com/Products/Work-Ready/Propane.aspx Propane heaters will not give even 10 percent of the problems an diesel fired AH has.

I suspect the out of tune AH problems are compounded by many owners who put off a tune up because of the expense involved.

Pierce

Couldn't see if a current AH can be retrofitted. I would imagine not.

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Reply #14 – November 24, 2018, 02:50:53 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – November 24, 2018, 02:14:56 pm

Have to agree with Neal. Our diesel generators are bad enough, especially up at altitude but AH that is not in tip top shape will really put out the pollutants. No altitude compensator so one that is "out of tune" is going to be really bad in places like the Rockies or Sierras. If you insist on a AH, why not trash the diesel version and fit the propane modes? http://www.aquahot.com/Products/Work-Ready/Propane.aspx Propane heaters will not give even 10 percent of the problems an diesel fired AH has.

I suspect the out of tune AH problems are compounded by many owners who put off a tune up because of the expense involved.

Pierce

There is an altitude compensator, it is the air inlet. I have mine wide open as Rudy said it would still work at low altitudes. Maybe why mine burns very clean. I still have to keep it maintained as this adjustment is not a crutch for a poorly maintained one, just makes it a little better.
On a different note when I was in the Operating Engineers I was an equipment mechanic on the construction of the 30' wide 7 1/2 mile long tunnel between Pyramid lake and Castaic lake. We used loaders and scrapers in the tunnel. We put scrubbers on the exhaust which was just a tank of water that the exhaust went through. The air was OSHA approved for quality in the tunnel. Seems something similar could be constructed for the generators and Aqua Hots

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Reply #15 – November 24, 2018, 02:56:17 pm

My good friend with his Blue Bird (that he got a 'good deal' on) blew 2k getting his AH going. I like quiet heat, a great idea, but, the diesel smell is terrible. Wonder if anyone has converted to propane? Seems like a no-brainer AND, why did AH go with diesel in the first place?

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Reply #16 – November 24, 2018, 03:05:19 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – November 24, 2018, 02:14:56 pm

Have to agree with Neal. Our diesel generators are bad enough, especially up at altitude but AH that is not in tip top shape will really put out the pollutants. No altitude compensator so one that is "out of tune" is going to be really bad in places like the Rockies or Sierras. If you insist on a AH, why not trash the diesel version and fit the propane modes? http://www.aquahot.com/Products/Work-Ready/Propane.aspx Propane heaters will not give even 10 percent of the problems an diesel fired AH has.

I suspect the out of tune AH problems are compounded by many owners who put off a tune up because of the expense involved.

Pierce

" If you insist on a AH, why not trash the diesel version and fit the propane modes? http://www.aquahot.com/Products/Work-Ready/Propane.aspx Propane heaters will not give even 10 percent of the problems an diesel fired AH has."

180 gallon diesel fuel tank. Not even close with propane.

Who is going to remove the diesel generator and fit a propane generator?

If you are going to do one, might as well do both right? It's only money after all. Enjoy the runs for propane refills.

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Reply #17 – November 24, 2018, 03:16:27 pm

One easy to purchase fuel for the coach, gen, and heat.

We've had propane heat in several Rv's and I was always either cold or too warm waiting for the furnace to quit. Always had to plan ahead for propane. With AH we have always been comfortable. We use the 120v as long as it will keep up. I sure hope if the exhaust ever bothers someone they will speak up so we can be the one to move.

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Reply #18 – November 24, 2018, 03:20:13 pm

[quote author=AC7880 link=msg=334012 date=1543089919 180 gallon diesel fuel tank. Not even close with propane.Who is going to remove the diesel generator and fit a propane generator?

If you are going to do one, might as well do both right? It's only money after all. Enjoy the runs for propane refills. [/quote]
Yup, prolly the reason in the first place they went with diesel, Hell, the designers never had to park next to a coach with diesel fumes all over that the owners, in their snug coach, never even noticed!

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Reply #19 – November 24, 2018, 03:59:29 pm

No, I can't imagine trading a diesel generator for a propane but I never suggested that. Our solar makes the generator only necessary for AC use.

So keep the AH brand but use their propane model. With our huge propane tank, the AH would run forever. For us, propane is a little over $1 gallon so with diesel at around $3.50/gal in California, the BTU cost is not that much different. Just remember how much your service is going to cost for the diesel model. Not if but when. AH propane heater should work and operate EXACTLY like the diesel version.

Waiting for delivery this next week of the two diesel fired air heaters so will have to see how they work out. If they make much of an odor, I'll switch to a Propex style air heater like installed in this VW: TheSamba.com :: Vanagon - View topic - Mounting a Propex heater in the back...
I should have them working for a demo at Q. At their price, why even have someone do a tuneup? Just put in the small spare you have onboard then look at the old one when you get home.

Pierce

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Reply #20 – November 24, 2018, 08:58:33 pm

The unburned hydrocarbons cause the smell. A well maintained diesel AH puts out next to zero unburned hydrocarbons. I was in an Oregon rv park and wanted to use Aquahot and talke to people next to me and they never noticed.

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Reply #21 – November 24, 2018, 09:53:35 pm

Legally you are limited to two 300 pound propane tanks? Maybe only one?116 gallons. Roughly 116 hours run time. Odorized propane stinks.

You have to move the coach for a volume fill. Diesel can be poured in the tank,

Gen runs on diesel.

As a prepper somewhat the increased run time is extremely important.

I have had propane systems freeze in severe weather.

Yes the odors are not good.

I used the Primus prototype unicoach and the consumption was very noticeable.

No substitute for the diesel aquahot imo. Commercial grade. Lots of btu's.

Internet references to a full winter use in Montana without moving coach on one tank of fuel.

Wind blocks around coaches bottom edge with block foam.

They said it worked well

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Reply #22 – November 25, 2018, 08:18:07 am

I can tell you that at 11,500 feet my diesel aquahot will smoke even with the shutter wide open, lots of black smoke. But at 7000' or lower it is smoke free with very little exhaust smell. I have to put my hand over the exhaust to tell it is running. But even though it does smell and doesn't really bother me there are other things that do. Cigarette smoke? Campfire blowing through my open windows? Heavy perfume? Car exhaust? Emissions from the various chemical plants around my house?
But normally if plugged in at a campground I'll use the electric element.

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Reply #23 – November 25, 2018, 09:05:32 am

Just curios where is there a 11,500' foot area that you can park a motorhome? There is one campground in California at 10,500 at Saddlebag lake, but you aren't going to get even a 25' coach up there.

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Reply #24 – November 25, 2018, 10:47:43 am

Chuck,

In your favorite part of the woods, Virginia Lakes Campground is at 9600 feet. Don't think I could get our coach started up there after a cold night.

To others:
Unless you are burning hydrogen, there are products of combustion that are harmful, whether you can see them with our relatively poor eyes or not. That what everything from smog to global climate change is about.

Pierce

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