Stick in the Mud

Topic: Stick in the Mud (Read 1041 times) previous topic - next topic

Stick in the Mud

February 09, 2019, 02:07:11 pm

See the photos of the aftermath and tow truck.

Just some advice for Foretravelers:

- Don't park on grass that could be saturated and become muddy
- Do park on a hard surface
- Wood planks may not work

The left dually drive tires and steering tire got stuck in the mud next my driveway due to water-saturated ground. After digging out the mud and inserting 2x6x3ft inch wood planks:

- Planks lifted under force from tires
- Drive dually tires could not climb up onto the wood
- Tires spun on the slippery wood
- Should have carried metal mesh or something better than wood for traction. Any suggestions?

I have a $20/year roadside assistance policy with Progressive. After three hours and multiple phone calls, the tow truck arrived. In 10 minutes, the U270 was FREE. Recommended tow procedure:

- Tow truck had a "T" bar set three inches off the ground
- Pulleys connected a winch cable about three inches off the ground
- Service man connected to the Foretravel front axle beam with chains and a "J" hook
- Started the U270 and gave a little throttle as he pulled with the winch
- In ten seconds, she was out of the mud! No damage. LOL
- Gave the guy $20 tip

Some of my wooden planks and edges of the macadam drive way got destroyed because the mud provided no firm surface to distribute the load. Lesson learned.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #1 – February 09, 2019, 02:14:33 pm

Glad you got out ok Tim.

I might add be careful in sandy areas as we can sink very quickly. I know, it happened last summer in Michigan. Coach Net to the rescue.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #2 – February 09, 2019, 02:33:44 pm

Need a posittrac or a way to apply brakes to left dual maybe letting the air out of the pot. May have been able to drive out. Some 2wd off road vehicles can operate left or right brakes on the drive axles. Best place to be stranded is at home.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #3 – February 09, 2019, 04:01:18 pm

Could applying partial brakes have helped?

Would locking the mud-stuck brake, using the air chamber spring release bolt enable the non-mud-stuck (on the pavement) side to engage and DRAG rig out of the mud?

Just trying to think outside the box.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #4 – February 09, 2019, 04:54:08 pm

We had a very similar situation last November at our daughter's new house. Parked next to their garage on firm ground but after 3 days of rain and filling the fresh water tank (silly me) the rig just sunk as we slowly tried to pull it out.

We got a tow truck within 30 minutes. The driver was rather young and walked up to us with a big grin. "I never had to work on one of those! This will be fun!" Of course, I then knew to watch every move he made.

After 20 minutes of trying and just lifting or skidding his truck with the force of the tow wire, he called for help. Experienced driver came and had us out on first try. His trick was to double up the winch cable so the winch got more pulling force. I had them attach the cable to the frame tow points. It didn't come close to any body work.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #5 – February 09, 2019, 05:01:24 pm

You mean cage the right rear side dual brake, leave parking brake ON to the left and pull forward

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #6 – February 09, 2019, 05:28:41 pm

Oh yes, I got it backward. Caging the non-stuck side would allow it to move freely. Guess I'd have to cage all but the stuck drive wheel.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #7 – February 09, 2019, 05:52:39 pm

My coach parking brake is rear axle only, yours is probably the same way. Don't want to risk locking the steer axle tires if you lose all air.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #8 – February 10, 2019, 04:27:03 pm

Try Googling "Traction Mats" all the UPS trucks carry them in our area. They work well if used properly. You will need the heavy duty ones. The trick is to use them before you dig a hole. As soon as the wheels spin put them out.

Keith

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #9 – February 11, 2019, 07:21:04 am

By the way, the tow truck driver decided to connect his chains to the front axle beam instead of my suggested structural element to the right of the generator. I agreed with him because:

- No messed-up fiberglass
- Forces are better down low, where the tires were stuck

Question: What does the front axle beam connect to: the king pin or the main structure?

In other words, can damage be done to the front axle beam by towing?

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #10 – February 11, 2019, 08:04:35 am

Will look under coach today but it connects to the main frame/structure via the air bags and torque rods,5 rods in front and 5 in
back,(2 lower,2 upper running lenthwise and 1 in the middle running sideways.)

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #11 – February 11, 2019, 08:50:11 am

Just thinking out loud:
Force would go through the king pins/bushings then the torque rods/bushings to front chassis structure which is bolted at the front bulkhead to the coach center structure which is bolted at the rear bulkhead to the rear chassis structure............

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #12 – February 11, 2019, 08:56:45 am

I don't know about Foretravels, but Wanderlodges and class 8 trucks recommend towing from factory designated points, not the front axle. I don't think the front suspension is designed to withstand the lateral force. At the very least you could change the alignment of the axle to the coach. In this case it didn't take much force to free the coach.
YRMV.

TOM

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #13 – February 11, 2019, 09:01:35 am

Might we worthwhile for someone to contact James Triana for his recommendation on tow attachment points. I trust that this is not the first time a Foretravel was pulled out of the mud and--- more-- I really trust James's considered knowledge of the Foretravel structure.

Monocoque and semi-monocoque structures are quite different than frame rail structures.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #14 – February 11, 2019, 09:45:59 am

front axle must transmit all braking loads to the chassis or vice versa, along with cornering loads. That being said, these loads are typically transferred close to the wheel and not in the middle of the axle. Middle of the axle is just along for the ride for the most part under normal conditions. It can be bent, but I doubt the winch pulling your rig out, while your were operating it in gear generated more than 2000 lbs of forward force. Hook on axle or frame close to the stuck side would be better than hook in center of the axle.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #15 – February 11, 2019, 09:53:29 am

With the weight of the diesel engine in the rear of our coaches, the rear wheels do most of the braking, as those of us who have replaced the brake pads can attest.
Our 1989 coach, with 84,000 miles on the odometer, had front pads that looked like new but the rear pads were pretty well used up.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #16 – February 11, 2019, 09:56:28 am

Here's the text from my owner's manual:

"Tow chain attachments must be made directly to the vehicle axle. The chains must be routed under the bottom edge of the bumper in such a manner that they do not come in contact with suspension, steering, brake, cooling system or air spoiler components."
jor

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #17 – February 11, 2019, 10:49:45 am

I just tried a search " how to tow", after reading the above. Mostly about towing a car. I was once stuck in a very muddy field after record breaking rain in Texas. I was planning on getting towed from the front, but didn't want any damage to the fiberglass. I didn't know where to look for instruction to give to a tow operator. I had to rethink what would be involved in getting towed from the the back with the hitch for the toad. That would have been a nightmare, as well. Fortunately, I was able to get out of that mess without a tow truck, BUT I still don't know how to get pulled out of mud, etc, should it ever happen. No one has addressed this in this topic. How do you attach chains to get pulled out of mud, etc.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #18 – February 11, 2019, 02:20:38 pm

I am glad you posted this up, as I too have found out how to get a Foretravel Stuck....and real good too! I was visiting my nieces place in Tennessee a while back, near Nashville. They have a Farm with 50+Acres, and invited us to stay at their place, as we rolled though! We rolled in, and they had a Fairly Flat piece of property. I was directed to park on their Lawn, and I did mention that it might be a Better idea to park on a Stone covered area, so I don't sink. It was just fine for a few days, as it did not rain! Then one day my DW, and I decided to drive our Toad into Nashville to Visit the Grand 'ol Opry, and Opryland! We were going to go elsewhere but it stated raining rain pretty bad, and I said to her, that we better get back, ahead of the Storm to move the Coach!

We got back and the Rain Beat us! It was Soggy Everywhere, and since we were leaving in 2 days, I mentioned this is going to be a Hassle, for sure! The Tires already looked like they sank an inch or two, without even moving! He said that it drains quickly, and not to worry! Well, 2 days later it was still soaked, and when I put the Coach in Gear, all I got was Spinning tires! I Immediately went into the rocking motion, only to bury the axle and it rested on the frame within a Minute of this attempt to move! Dunnage, Stone, and everything else I could think of was worthless. It just made a bigger ditch! We stayed an extra day, because I found out my Allstate Did not Tow Motorhomes, and my Good Sam would also, not do it! So, I dug a ditch to Back Out, as that was the best way to approach a pull! He had a Dodge 1/2 Ton Truck, 2 WD, and attached a Strap to the Back part of the Frame, where the Tow Hitch is attached to! I believe I raised the Engine Bay Door so the strap had no Fiberglass Contact also? I was going to just attach it to the Hitch, but felt a better way would be on the Bar, itself! It took a little Coaxing at that point, but out she came! I also did the Manual, All 4 Corner "Raise" Function on the HWH! That helped!

We now have Towing through FMCA, I believe? I also think it might be a Good Idea to Raise the Generator Front Hatch Cover to Pull it from the front as well? A Nylon Strap is advised over a Chain, I'd say! I carry a short Snatch Strap 8" wide to connect to a Chain, just for that purpose, usually!

This thing seems to get stuck in it's own shadow, and I have even been considering getting Snow Chains to get Unstuck in Mud, anyway! Won't do much in Sand, though!

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #19 – February 11, 2019, 02:34:48 pm

Shortly after we brought our coach home, I decided to drive it onto the front yard to fill the water tank. I failed to notice a wet area, and got the front stuck. CoachNet set a tow truck out fairly quickly. After looking it over, I put a regular 2" ball hitch into the receiver, and the tow cable was attached to that. I fired up the Detroit and put it in reverse, just idling. The tow truck took in the cable, and I was out in less than a minute.

It took more than a year for the ruts to go away.

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #20 – February 11, 2019, 02:35:48 pm

Quote from: GleamB – February 11, 2019, 10:49:45 am

How do you attach chains to get pulled out of mud, etc. ?

While I have no Real World Experience with attaching Snow Chains to something this heavy, and in a ditch, I do think it is a Valid question, that hopefully someone has had experience with, perhaps? I'd say to just lay the Chain in the ditch created by the tires, on the side spinning, and an easy rocking motion until you get them to either go forward a bit, like in Snow, or have it fed by the Spinning Motion? Great question actually, and I always hated a Tow Assist in stuck situations! Self Recovery was always something I prided myself with in every stuck situation with every vehicle I ever owned, except a Motorhome! I'm an Offroader and Wouldn't be without a Hi-Lift Jack (Widowmaker), and Electric and Manual Winch (Come Along) Connections via a Hitch Receiver both in the Front and Rear of the Vehicle! A Sand Anchor as well, if not in a Wooded area, along with Straps, Pulleys, etc. Anybody know of a 50K lb Winch, or Air Lockers for the Axle? LOL Maybe a 12.5K lb Winch with a Quad Pulley on Each End perhaps?

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #21 – February 11, 2019, 05:41:39 pm

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – February 10, 2019, 04:27:03 pm

Try Googling "Traction Mats" all the UPS trucks carry them in our area. They work well if used properly. You will need the heavy duty ones. The trick is to use them before you dig a hole. As soon as the wheels spin put them out.

Keith

These look pretty good to me. GoTreads - Foldable tire traction mats to get out of mud, snow, or sand.

And Amazon has them as well: Amazon.com: Pinto, Inc GoTreads Emergency Automotive Traction Tool - 2-Pack...

Re: Stick in the Mud

Reply #22 – February 11, 2019, 07:10:20 pm

You could install more common drive tires if you frequently end up in places where you are worried about getting stuck. There are tradeoffs but having steer tires all around does make you very alot more likely to have the wheel spin and start digging. Parking on the wood before it gets soft can help as well. Hooking to the front axle is good. You would have to be stuck pretty bad to break the ubolts and rip the axle beam out from undwr but it can be done. I would hope the tow operator would try something else before that happens.

If it's a big worry you could buy a winch and build a mount into the frame but that's alot for just in case.

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