1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Topic: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start (Read 1164 times) previous topic - next topic

1996 new fuel filters, hard start

February 23, 2019, 05:45:36 pm

First time changing both fuel filters here in rv park. C8.3 295 model.
I replaced a cummins installed, red primary Baldwin filter bf 5813 with rubber grommet.
I replaced with Napa 3418 gold with No small gasket in box.
Called napa,they said not needed.
Replaced the block filter with the same Cummins 1251 filter, with new rubber grommet.
Started after several tries, then quit.
Do I need to push rubber prime button under lift pump many times?
Manual shows bleeder air screw,can't see it?
Think I'll let sit overnite.
Yes,I filled both filters with clean diesel

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #1 – February 23, 2019, 05:58:10 pm

Yes, you may have to push the rubber button several times. If the tank was low, you may have mostly air in the long line from tank to the first filter. Some of us have installed a ball valve rated for diesel at the intake of the first filter, to keep from either getting air in the line or if the tank is very full stop fuel from draining by gravity with filter removed. Don't crank the engine too much without letting the starter cool or you will have another problem.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #2 – February 23, 2019, 06:01:06 pm

Also some folks replace one filter start the engine and let it run a bit. Stop the engine, replace the other filter, and repeat.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #3 – February 23, 2019, 06:12:45 pm

Jerry,
Thanks for reply. Unfortunately the tank is only half full. As you know everyone does filters Their way. I changed both at once. Got tired leaning over bed railing trying to pump plunger. Will try Sunday,and roust the neighbors. Lol

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #4 – February 23, 2019, 06:20:33 pm

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – February 23, 2019, 06:01:06 pm

Also some folks replace one filter start the engine and let it run a bit. Stop the engine, replace the other filter, and repeat.

I do this exact procedure (with the addition of starting engine and letting it warm up before changing 1st filter). Engine always starts and runs fine (after each filter) with less than 30 seconds of cranking.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #5 – February 24, 2019, 12:07:29 am

Start again with full throttle to keep engine running to get out all the air. Next time follow the other suggestions. Likely will stay running after a few attempts with high RPM.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #6 – February 24, 2019, 01:29:16 am

One filter at a time on my coach, i don't bother to fill filter, cycle the prime bulb a couple of dozen of times, engine hickups A couple of times, same for All of my diesels Since 96

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #7 – February 24, 2019, 05:42:13 am

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 24, 2019, 01:29:16 am

One filter at a time on my coach, i don't bother to fill filter, cycle the prime bulb a couple of dozen of times, engine hickups A couple of times, same for All of my diesels Since 96

I believe I read somewhere here, and elsewhere, that a Cummins M-11 and newer, you do NOT prefill those filters? I am doing this soon, and don't need any more issues! Wish me luck!!!

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #8 – February 24, 2019, 06:41:50 am

Tom, All diesels that I have dealt with ,it is best to refill fuel filter with clean fuel. If you don't it will be very hard to start which could burn up starter if you are not careful!
Chris

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #9 – February 24, 2019, 08:04:02 am

Yep........ everyone has their own way of changing the fuel filters, not sure if there is a right or wrong way. Some easier than others maybe and for sure some "don't do" things. When I am down in the engine compartment, I change both at the same time, use NAPA gold filters if Fleetguard isn't readily available. Always prefill the primary filter "big one" and never prefill the secondary as I want to ensure all fuel passes through this filter and no accidental trash or contaminants get in this on during fill or install.

It takes a couple dozen pumps of the manual lift pump to prime and fill the secondary filter and push the air past the fuel return check valve on our P71 injector pump. The pump will get noticeably harder to push once the air is eliminated. It always cranks immediately and only idles rough for a few seconds and only after a few seconds of running.

For what its worth this is my procedure for our mechanical 8.3 cummins. only worth what you paid for it........

Disclaimer:
Your results may vary as different engines and systems behave differently. Results here may vary.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #10 – February 24, 2019, 10:05:29 am

Quote from: Chris m lang – February 24, 2019, 06:41:50 am

Tom, All diesels that I have dealt with ,it is best to refill fuel filter with clean fuel. If you don't it will be very hard to start which could burn up starter if you are not careful!
Chris

I realize it may be best, but with a manual Pump/Prime button I truly see No need in. My first Diesel in 1986 was a Ford ,6.9, 320K , never Prefilled it, had it since new! I also have 180K on the clock on my Duramax 6.6 Chevy Diesel, I bought new, and have never Prefilled, simply because there was more of a Possibility of contaminating the fuel without having a Spartanly Clean fuel can. Lastly, my Diesel 4 Cylinder 1967 John Deere JD300 Backhoe, I do not Prefill, but that is because it has no Prime Button, but a Glass Filter Bowl! I didn't buy that new, though, LOL Of course I had to do nearly 100 Pumps to prime the Trucks, but the peace of mind, I had was worth it! But, IF this is different on the M-11, I will Prefill, because those Starters, aren't the Cheapest ones out there, either! I will buy a brand new plastic Fuel can for the job though! As we all know, Diesels hate Water and Dirt, and with the price of a New Engine & R&R, well, somebody gets a Parts FT, LOL

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – February 23, 2019, 05:58:10 pm

Yes, you may have to push the rubber button several times. If the tank was low, you may have mostly air in the long line from tank to the first filter. Some of us have installed a ball valve rated for diesel at the intake of the first filter, to keep from either getting air in the line or if the tank is very full stop fuel from draining by gravity with filter removed. Don't crank the engine too much without letting the starter cool or you will have another problem.

You wouldn't happen to have a resource for that Ball Valve, by any chance? Sounds like a Great Idea, to me! I am in the State of California and if I get One Drop of fuel anywhere it isn't suppose to be I will be getting a Second, or Maybe a Third Mortgage on my House, from the fines levied upon me, from the 10,000 Ordinances, and Laws I would have broken!

I actually carry one of those Blankets that SOP-UP, any oil or fuel spill I may have, even in accidental way, that I carry with my Boats, as that is way sensitive, anywhere these days, rightly so, though! I am also doing my own Oil and Filter Change, and it is Highly reccommended to never prefill that filter, either! It's Inverted anyway, I do believe I saw? I was quoted $700.00 for something I have never had someone else do, and that's an Oil Change on any vehicle I ever owned, Motorcycles, and Boat Engines Included! I never trust a Tech, that may screw it up! Too many Horror stories out there!

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #11 – February 24, 2019, 10:28:35 am

Tom Hall does it best with his electric pump add-on. We have a frame mounted hand pump that also works well. If you keep the new filters a turn or two loose and then pump until bubbles and diesel run out, they engine will start right up. A gallon plastic bag keeps the diesel from running on the ground and then a rag makes it like new. The primary fills first so tighten and then go on to the secondary. DON'T use ether to try and start a warm engine after a filter change!

I have pressure gauges on both the primary as well as the discharge on the secondary. Easy to diagnose any delivery problem.

Some diesels are designed to self prime, others are not.

Check out Tom's installation here: Tom Hall

Pierce

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #12 – February 24, 2019, 10:43:08 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – February 24, 2019, 10:28:35 am

Tom Hall does it best with his electric pump add-on. We have a frame mounted hand pump that also works well. If you keep the new filters a turn or two loose and then pump until bubbles and diesel run out, they engine will start right up. A gallon plastic bag keeps the diesel from running on the ground and then a rag makes it like new. The primary fills first so tighten and then go on to the secondary. DON'T use ether to try and start a warm engine after a filter change!

I have pressure gauges on both the primary as well as the discharge on the secondary. Easy to diagnose any delivery problem.

Some diesels are designed to self prime, others are not.

Check out Tom's installation here: Tom Hall

Pierce

Very good idea's here, thanks! That Manual Pump, if you have any Pics and/or resources for that I'd appreciate it! The Plastic Bag trick is a good one also! Use a Funnel, and back into the tank it goes, too! Keeps California, real Happy!

Also, I saw this in that article! I like the Gauge Idea, too, as when the Pressures got lower it indicated a filter change is necessary, trick idea, would be nice have resources for that, as well?
"Terrence J McGraw - Have "MACK" hand pump on the return fuel line, it will prime the rack, is in line all the time, also have an electric oil pressure gauge, (JC Whitney) in a spare port on the rack, 6-71 needs around 70 pounds pressure, gauge shows that, readings get lower as filters get clogged"

Is our Fuel Lines 1/4" I.D.? Or I just may have to remove and measure?

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #13 – February 24, 2019, 11:04:15 am

Tom,

The pump is OEM on side radiator U300s and located down on the frame just inside the engine door on the right side. Ours leaked and was filthy but a couple of O rings from NAPA for about a dime each fixed that. You push in and rotate a little and them pump. I pump until the pressure gauge goes up and fuel comes out the primary then tighten and do the same to the secondary. If the engine is warm, the starter will spin it over faster and make is easier to start in case there is a bubble in the line.

Our check valve also had a crack in it so replaced at the same time. Someone over tightened one of the fittings.

Pierce

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #14 – February 24, 2019, 01:36:14 pm

Well Foretravel friends the c8.3 reluctantly came alive. Did 25 prime pumps, no start. Did another 25 pumps, plunger was hard. Tried again with about 1/4 pedal, she fired and I kept revs to about 1100rpm.
Hmmm tried to use king control cruise lever to keep revs up with foot off pedal, no go.
I slide switch to on,then push in lever end button.
Used to work the last 2 years. Oh well.thats another post. Lol thanks for filter start ideas all.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #15 – February 24, 2019, 01:45:27 pm

Have started mine several times with empty lines. Prime with manual pump with injector line open a tad till fuel came out with key on. (Key on keeps fuel shut off valve open). Cranked over with pedal to the floor, tried to keep rpm under 1500, after start, closed injector line. Worked every time.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #16 – February 25, 2019, 12:03:55 pm

What small o ring did the Baldwin filter have that the Napa filter didn't?

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #17 – February 25, 2019, 12:09:38 pm

For future, leaning over bed base I use a hammer handle to pump the bulb. Saves a foot of leaning.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #18 – February 25, 2019, 01:19:21 pm

We use a long flat board with bottom pressed against inside of frame, without leaning over open bed can prime lift pump by moving board toward engine. But lately, by filling filters and replacing primary fuel filter (over batteries) then starting with full throttle until engine catches, then repeat for secondary at side of engine eliminates the need to prime lift pump. We do have a ball valve on primary input, that doubles as anti-theft.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #19 – February 25, 2019, 01:51:32 pm

If it starts hard tomorrow , go back to the primary filter and find the air intrusion . If it lights right off as it should. , you are done .

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #20 – February 25, 2019, 05:09:35 pm

Always fill my filters, why leave a can full of air to bleed out of a system.Tom,the first time I changed fuel filters on my manual 8.3 I wondered if I would ever get it to fire.. That primer bulb is tucked up under in a place that I over looked and to be honest I was supprised to see the mousy little bulb. Have had Cats in the past with a plunger big enough to get a hand on. Like Pierce said an electric pump to pull fuel up is faster than priming. Jerry mentioned a ball valve to close off to prevent fuel in the lines from emptying back into the fuel tank.. I've had that on my list for sometime now.. In your shop or on your yard these issues are not pressing as they would be on the side of the road after buying a tank full of bad fuel, with traffic 2 ft away running 75 and texting the pressure goes up. Glad you got her cranked.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #21 – February 25, 2019, 06:14:07 pm

Steve Delange, you asked about Original red Baldwin Primary filter rubber o ring. Here's a picture, it's about 1 1/4" inch diameter. No leaks from Napa primary filter without an o ring.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #22 – February 25, 2019, 06:18:02 pm

Tom,

I am not suggesting there should/should not be a center O ring, but even if there should be one, it would not leak externally. It would just allow unfiltered fuel to mix with filtered fuel, bypassing the filter media.

So, I would verify that no center gasket/O ring is needed.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #23 – February 26, 2019, 12:12:51 am

Didn't think small o ring was causing air leak. I just noticed the pictures of both the Baldwin and Napa filters don't show one. Curious as to where the o ring came from. When it comes to replacing fuel filters, I really appreciated the Wynn purge system on my 96 U320 and the Racor purge system on my 2005 U320.

Re: 1996 new fuel filters, hard start

Reply #24 – February 26, 2019, 01:04:17 am

Adding to Brett, I am pretty sure center rubber gasket in you picture is needed, but also important is that when changing filters always note that all old gaskets are removed to prevent adding without removing, causing a rubber to rubber connection which will leak. If a needed center gasket is missing, there is no reason for the filter as 'dirty' oil can just flow back without being filtered.

Affiliate Notice