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Plumbing questions

It seems that I have a fresh water leak. I've checked all of the usual suspects, and all connections that I can see are dry. As I type this, there is no water connection, the accumulator tank is out, and I'm still getting some water coming out from what looks like the bottom of the fresh water tank.

Questions:
1. If I drain the tank I'll obviously end the leak, but Jo Ann might not like living without water. If I connect the hose and don't use the pump (running off of city water pressure) does water flow into the tank? I think so, but want to be sure.

2. How much work is involved in pulling the fresh water tank? It looks like I'd have to take off of the door, then take off the trim around the area, and then see what is involved in convincing the tank to come out. Has anyone done this before?

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #1 –
David,

You should be able to drain potable water tank.  The make sure your fill valve is closed.  Unless you have a bad check valve in the water pump, potable water tank should not fill.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #2 –
Thanks, Brett. I've opened the drain valves for the fresh water tank. I'll hook up the hose and turn the electric water heater back on. Just to be safe, I'l going to disconnect the water pump's electricity, so that if one of us forgets and turns on the pump nothing will happen.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #3 –
Check to see if there is a leak with the tank drained and city water on. I suspect the connection between the check valve and water tank. It would run under the tank and make it look like the tank is leaking. If not then does the water pump recycle frequently when running off the tank instead of city? If so, it's not the tank leaking.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #4 –
Tank is empty and we're connected to park water. The leak is just as bad as before, so I'm guessing that it isn't the tank. After we're (mostly) done with water tonight I'll turn the water off and see what happens. What confuses me is that the water enters the filter, then goes down to the factory inlet. The check valve is on the back side of that, and there is no evidence of water on that side of the wall. The water is all on the side of the wall where the fresh water tank is.

We've got storms coming in again tonight, so I'm trying to get everything buttoned up for the storms. Tomorrow morning we have an appointment for the new air conditioner. I think that I'll see if I can get another check valve then, just to have it. If we have time after we get back to the campsite and it isn't storming I'll start pulling that area apart and see what I can see.

I'm going to go out and shut the water off overnight and then I'll really be able to see if I have a dry bay. I would think that with no water in the tank and no water coming in, it ought to be dry.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #5 –
David,

Remember, water in a basement compartment is VERY BAD for the bulkheads.  Dry it out at any cost and find the source of the leak!
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #6 –
I've been drying a couple of times each hour for two days.

I left the hose connected and on, but turned off the valve in the fill line while we had supper. More water in the bay, so the hose is disconnected now. I'll check again in a few minutes to see if there is any water there. Tomorrow I'll get a check valve while the a/c is being replaced.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #7 –
It could be dripping down from the backside of the heater. Put some water in the tank, turn the pump on and listen to see if it recycles with no faucets open. If it does, the leak is AFTER the pump.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #8 –
I thought of that, since the hot water heater was just replaced. However, that area is dry. The only water is on the fill (street) side, and only in the portion of the wet bay that houses the fresh water tank.

Tomorrow we're going to get the new a/c installed. I think that I'm going to turn off the hot water heater, drain it, and drain all lines. THEN I'll drive to the shop and check the floor of the bay. If there is still water there I'll conclude that I have a water-making device hidden in there somewhere. I don't know how much water can hide under the tank, but it can't be a huge amount.

It looks like I may have a few hours between the time we get back to the campground and the evening thunderstorm, so I'll open up the area where the inlet is and see what I can see.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #9 –
Quote from: kb0zke –
It looks like I may have a few hours between the time we get back to the campground and the evening thunderstorm, so I'll open up the area where the inlet is and see what I can see.

You don't have to open the fascia.  In the side opposite of where the valves are you can locate a vent held on by 2 screws. Remove that and you can stick a flashlight and/or hand in there and look for water.

Actually, I have a 280 so it might be slightly different. Worth a try.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #10 –
We have different coaches and I am not familiar with yours.  My water leak was caused by one of the many screws that have sharp points.  One of them eventually drilled a hole in a water line.  The water made it's way across the coach, so it was difficult to locate the problem.
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #11 –
We got the new a/c installed today, and while I was there I picked up a new check valve. Before we left the campground, I opened all of the drain valves (after turning off the electric hot water heater, of course), and let it drip until we were ready to leave the shop. When we got back to the campground I replaced the check valve. After checking all visible connections I put a bit of water in the tank. I checked the bay after about five minutes, and all was dry, so I filled the tank.

After supper I looked outside again, and there is water on the curb side (hot water heater side). It seems that I have the world's most expensive water level. Given that the water is on the hot water heater side, we're starting to think that maybe one of those connections isn't as tight as it ought to be. I'll check that tomorrow.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #12 –
While I was outside to pull in things in preparation for tonight's rain I tried feeling the back of the hot water heater. Everything I touched was dry, and I think there may be less water there than what was there earlier. I suppose that what is there may just be from the driving around and changing the check valve. We'll see in the morning.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #13 –
This week at FT I asked Service to fix a water leak in my wet bay.  They redid a couple connections and declared the leak fixed.  This morning I checked the bay again and found more water than before the service appointment.  Darn.  Then after Anne's shower I say a little water on the bathroom floor.  I accused her of tracking water from the shower.  She claimed innocence.  I cleaned up the water, then checked the Microphor toilet.  I found a tiny leak at the entrance to the vacuum breaker valve.  When I flushed the toilet the drip became a spray.  Water was pooling on the floor inside the toilet, running down the hole in the floor where the water line enters, then across the coach to the wet bay.  I drove immediately back to FT for an emergency appointment.  They initially thought the valve housing had cracked($200 but in stock) but found it was only a failed o-ring.  The techs had a hard time matching the o-ring, but finally found an A/C o-ring that did the trick.  Just in case, I called the Microphor distributor.  They said they came in a set of two for $1.00 but would be happy to mail them at no charge.  I accepted their offer just for insurance.

Moral of the story:  a water leak can travel a long way in our coaches making the source very difficult to find in some cases.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #14 –
"Moral of the story:  a water leak can travel a long way in our coaches making the source very difficult to find in some cases." It isn't just in our coaches. When we had the S&B I had to redo the ceiling in a bathroom because of a leak more than 20' away. It took three different roofers to find it.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #15 –
Quote from: amos.harrison –
This week at FT I asked Service to fix a water leak in my wet bay.  They redid a couple connections and declared the leak fixed.  This morning I checked the bay again and found more water than before the service appointment.  Darn. 

AT $140 AN HOUR??
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #16 –
Charged me 15 min.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Plumbing questions

Reply #17 –
Problem solved. All it took was money and a couple of people who have done this a time or three before.

It turned out that I had more than one problem. One of the old pipes had a small crack in it, which allowed the water to escape. The old blue pressure tank had an internal leak (water trapped on the air side). When the old pressure tank was removed and before the new one was installed we put some water in to check for any remaining leaks. Good thing we did, as the water pump was leaking some at the back. The end result is that I now have a new water pump (looks just like the old one) and a new pressure tank. Oh yes, flex hoses were used to replace the old grey plastic pipe, so when the tank shakes one way and the hot water heater shakes the other way there is something that can absorb that vibration.

In the paperwork that came with the new pressure tank was this note: Pressure tanks should be replaced at least every seven years and checked regularly for leaks. I can't prove it one way or the other, but I suspect that the old tank was original.