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Topic: Freedom 458 problem (Read 929 times) previous topic - next topic

Freedom 458 problem

Hooked up a 30 amp recepticle wrong and put hi voltage to the coach.The powerwatch AC meter was pegged out for a few seconds
and the reverse polarity red indicator was on,I unplugged ASAP.Now have 120 volts to the coach,AC meter shows 120 volts,The
freedom remote panel seems ok but the charger will not come on,tried running the setup program but charger won't run,looking
at the manual now and checking for a fuse or breaker.If I run the generator same result no charger.Any ideas will be appreciated.
The 12 volt lights work and the AC recepticles are working just no charging,Will try turning off AC per Xantrex manual,this is
supposed to turn charger back on.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #1
John,

By chance did you plug into a 240 VAC outlet?  If so, you may need to open up the inverter/charger and check for the internal fuse.

Said another way, if 120 VAC is reaching the inverter/charger but no charging (and likely no pass through) the problem is in the unit itself.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #2
Long story short, yes,will disconnect every wire from charger and check inside,thanks.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #3
Yes, that happened to me right after I bought the coach in 2008.  Thought I might be buying a new inverter, but I eventually found and replaced the internal fuse, I think it was a type that was wired into the PC board like a resistor.  It also cooked most of the components on the small circuit board in the central vac.  Nothing else was on like the TV, so I got off easy.  A good reason to have a Progressive EMS. 
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #4
Don't know what or how John put high voltage to the coach, but isn't this just where Progressive Industries EMS protection would save our wallet?

We are always at risk for electric voltage issues at every plug-in, and with all the expensive 120-volt appliances shouldn't everyone have over / under voltage protection.

It seems not if something will be damaged, but when. . .  Heck, people have blown out RV appliances plugging in to a relative's home, so how can every well-worn campground guarantee safety.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #5
Will be taking the Freedom 458 out tomorrow to find the fuse,did have a SSP-50XL ,vacuum still works maybe just blew the fuse.
Was changing a 30 amp recepticle to a different kind and wired it wrong.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #6
John,
30 amp RV service:

ONE HOT, one neutral, one ground.

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #7
Give the side of it a hard wack with your fist. May start charging. Does it invert? Those were noted for the charge circuit going out do to a bad board.
Not worth fixing, unless you love it.
I have gotten several of those, and used them for the inverter, just added a nice charger. Works fine.
I use these. Installed tons, never had a issue in many years. They come in higher amp:

Powermax PM3-60 110 Volts AC to 12 Volts DC 60 AMP RV Converter Battery...
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #8
Jerry,do you have the Freedom 458,going to check inside mine in a couple of days,have to live in the coach while moving so need
power.Hope it's just the fuse.Will be getting a surge guard 34951,same price as the progressive but a little better in some areas.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #9
Talked to one of the Zantrex techs,my options are,replace the fuse myself and go from there,send it to them and they will install
a updated board with new relays to update the charger,cost $650,just buy a new Zantrex for about $1000 or get another brand
charger or go with the Grace option,whatta ya-all think?
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #10
John,

Can you replace the fuse yourself?  That would be my first choice-- or perhaps CAREFULLY bridge across it to see if the inverter/charger then functions.  THEN make your decision. 

If unable to resurrect it, I would probably go with a PSW replacement.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #11
If I couldn't repair it myself, I wouldn't put much in a 23 year old inverter. I would bite the bullet and replace it with modern technology PSW, and battery charging.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #12
John, what is the "Grace" option? 

If your broken inverter is over 5 years old, it is not a good idea to put big $ into repair, as many components have 'wear' and may fail sooner rather than later.

With the 458 being modified sine wave, NO money should be put into it.  All modified sine wave work, but have some limitation that can damage some types of items.  All 120-volt devices are manufactured to work on sine wave.  No 120-volt items are specifically made to work on modified, just some/many do work ok.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #13
A new inverter charges the batteries based on temps greatly increasing their life and with a battery management system actually learns your batteries and adjusts the charger to match their actual condition.

 Microwave puts out more power on pure sine wave.

A newer unit can be system matched and expanded to include gen auto start that can be tied to the air conditioning in your case if you have Dometic airs. 

Does your ac control panel control your furnace?  I think it does.  If it does the system integration can add the heater into the auto gen start aystem based on either hot or cold or battery state of charge.

Engineering marches on.  22 years later.

The old inverters tend to corrode the internal contactors "points"  that lessens the amount of power that flows through them.

A robust system can run a integral solar controller with the latest units capable of using 240 volt top residential grade solar panels directly.  Early controllers were not rated for the 240 volt input. 

Small wires I understand are the benefit from this along with the less roof area needed to input X amount of power.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob & Susan
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #14
A new inverter charges the batteries based on temps greatly increasing their life and with a battery management system actually learns your batteries and adjusts the charger to match their actual condition.

 Microwave puts out more power on pure sine wave.

A newer unit can be system matched and expanded to include gen auto start that can be tied to the air conditioning in your case if you have Dometic airs. 

Does your ac control panel control your furnace?  I think it does.  If it does the system integration can add the heater into the auto gen start aystem based on either hot or cold or battery state of charge.

Engineering marches on.  22 years later.

The old inverters tend to corrode the internal contactors "points"  that lessens the amount of power that flows through them.

A robust system can run a integral solar controller with the latest units capable of using 240 volt top residential grade solar panels directly.  Early controllers were not rated for the 240 volt input. 

Small wires I understand are the benefit from this along with the less roof area needed to input X amount of power.
Bob, love to see a link to one of these 240 volt panels.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #15
Barry,read the posts,Gracerace's option is to keep the 458 and buy a new charger.
Jcus,we have the old ac's,switches on the unit,the 458 I have is from 2006 but is mod sine wave.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #16
https://stellarsolar.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/sp_X22_370_360_d_ac_datasheet_527025_A.pdf

Should work with our magnum pt-100 solar controller.

It was already made for that much power as far as I know.

Newest Victron comttoller is also rated up to 250 volts for the highly efficient panels

Not sure if these panels are the right ones.

Sunpower makes 58 volt dc panels also.

The pt 100 will take 240vdc.  Not sure about the ac stuff.  Better experts here than I by far.

Craneman made up much heavier mounting brackets for his panels
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob & Susan
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #17
https://stellarsolar.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/sp_X22_370_360_d_ac_datasheet_527025_A.pdf

Should work with our magnum pt-100 solar controller.

It was already made for that much power as far as I know.




Newest Victron comttoller is also rated up to 250 volts for the highly efficient panels


Nothing new, basically a 48 volt panel that has a microinverter on it that changes the 48 volt dc panel output to 240 ac so you can feed it directly back to the grid. You still must convert whatever your panels put out to your battery voltage. Not sure any solar controller can take that 240 volt ac and convert it to the dc, your batteries will require to charge.
Your PT-100 says it will accept 240 volts DC.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #18
Best hooked up to a Tesla powerwall which can take the 240ac input and put out 7k watts of 110v ac.

With Edison credit can be bootlegged installed and get the credit back and somehow have the Tesla fall off the wall and be caught by the coaches compartment floor. 

Net cost around $3500.  The Tesla has internal temp control and recirculating coolant
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob & Susan
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4


Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #20
That panel is 60 volts. Problem with Powerwall is that it is a complete unit, it is around 400 volts for the complete unit including the 240 volt ac input charger. Seeing our coaches have  lot of 12 volt equipment, getting that 400 volts down to a usable 12 volts is a problem. This is why most people use modules from a Tesla car.
Tesla's Lithium Powerwall – Awesome, But Not For RVs | Technomadia
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #21
I now see Grace option is one of us, not a type of charger. Thanks John.

I think that Grace's separating charger and inverter can be a great idea, allowing 120-volt circuits to be powered by a battery powered sine wave inverter, even when plugged into shore power, completely eliminating all power problems like surge, over & under voltages. No need for over-under voltage protection.

Plug into shore power to power battery charger which powers inverter to make your own 120-volt circuit. So both charger & inverter are on at the same time.

Only limitation is battery charger has to put out enough amps to power an inverter that must put out enough watts to power everything on the circuit.

BTW, reading specs on PowerMax I see 3-stage charging, but did not see battery temp compensated charging profiles. Often Converter chargers have less sophisticated charging profiles. The main job of Converters are to replace battery banks by supplying a constant voltage for 12-volt loads.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #22
I now see Grace option is one of us, not a type of charger. Thanks John.

I think that Grace's separating charger and inverter can be a great idea, allowing 120-volt circuits to be powered by a battery powered sine wave inverter, even when plugged into shore power, completely eliminating all power problems like surge, over & under voltages. No need for over-under voltage protection.

Plug into shore power to power battery charger which powers inverter to make your own 120-volt circuit. So both charger & inverter are on at the same time.

Only limitation is battery charger has to put out enough amps to power an inverter that must put out enough watts to power everything on the circuit.

BTW, reading specs on PowerMax I see 3-stage charging, but did not see battery temp compensated charging profiles. Often Converter chargers have less sophisticated charging profiles. The main job of Converters are to replace battery banks by supplying a constant voltage for 12-volt loads.

I was suggesting just adding a charger, and leaving the inverter off when not needed, that is if it still inverts. Cheapest way out. Done it a few times, works fine.
I rarely use our inverter. Have a 300 watt PSW in the overhead for all the video stuff, and a small one for rear TV.
Chris
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #23
I was suggesting just adding a charger, and leaving the inverter off when not needed, that is if it still inverts. Cheapest way out. Done it a few times, works fine.
I rarely use our inverter. Have a 300 watt PSW in the overhead for all the video stuff, and a small one for rear TV.
Chris

Do the same, have 600 watt inverter for audio and video stuff and leave on all the time. Only turn big inverter on when I need to use microwave or coffee pot.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Freedom 458 problem

Reply #24
Can be mounted flat.  6 8d's plus,  takes in 240 volt.  Outputs 110 or 220.  Number ll unit.

$7k.  Plus wall mount and install,  $1,500. 

Utility credit $4,500 here.

Weighs 270 pounds.

-4 f to 110 f.

Liquid temp control.

Ten year warranty with a live WiFi full time hookup.

4 years remote.

7000 watt inverter.

5000 watt charge. 

Less money than 6 battle borns and 2 stacked sealed outbacks.

Much less  than half $ with the utilities credit in so cal.

If we were going to full time and put in a large residential refer like our just installed Samsung 22 cu ft counter depth refer in our home remodel the powerwall would be on my list.

Plus the residential solar panels and the pt100 and the auto start and the integrated heat and air to go with the auto start.

Lots of time and money but a totally automatic almost endless power and capacity system.

Roof air on battery stuff. 

Am I wrong?

24 amps of 110. 

I would be tempted to keep the gels and magnum until I knew this worked ok.

Or tie them together through the Tesla?  Hmmmm

Powerwall | The Tesla Home Battery

Residential only.  You will have to change over yourself so far





"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob & Susan
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4