Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Question about electric trailer brakes (Read 742 times) previous topic - next topic

Question about electric trailer brakes

I'm thinking about pulling a trailer that has electric brakes, do I need to do anything special using the retarder? I know the brake lights come on when the retarder activates, would the trailer brakes engage also?  If so what do I do other than the obvious of not using the retarder. If the brakes do activate on the trailer I would think that on a long down hill the trailer brakes would get hot.

Thanks
Keith
The selected media item is not currently available.Keith & Jo
2003 U320T 4025 PBBS Designer series
Build 6203    Cummins 500hp
2000 U320 4010 WTFE / Build 5762 —Sold—
Motorcade #18070   
Pasadena, Texas
2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara-Sunset Orange pearl coat
Don't argue with a fool, people watching might not be able to tell the difference.

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #1 –
I've never pulled a trailer but the previous owner did.  He installed a standard brake controller like I had on my Ford truck when I pulled my 5th wheel.  I had not considered the retarder question.

Rich
Rich and Peggy Bowman
2002 U270 3610 WTFS, build #5939--"Freedom"
2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 4xe
SMI AirForceOne brake system
PakCanoe 15

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #2 –
I use this.  Check out install  instructions,  it appears to be activated by brake lights which come on with the retarder application. 

I can use this with both my toad and my rv, a Lexus 470 suv and my FT 295, to pull my utility trailer with electric brakes, as no wiring is required,  just plugs into cigarette lighter. 

It works perfectly, and is easily adjusted.  I've only used with SUV, however, it was recommended to me by local hitch center for use with my rv and utility  trailer for easiest install.

Tekonsha - Trailer Brake Control - Proportional

Tekonsha Prodigy RF Wireless Trailer Brake Controller - 1 to 3 Axles -...

97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #3 –
I installed a diode to keep the brake lights that are applied with the retarder from activating the trailer brake controller. You can pm me if you need more information. Ron
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #4 –
Brake controllers use an inertia pendulum, the faster the tow vehicle slows down or the harder the braking system slows the vehicle the more braking power it will ask the trailer to apply.
Brake controllers are not connected to the coach braking system, but are connected to the tow vehicle brake light circuit.
If only the retarder is used to brake the coach the brake controller will ignore the slow down, if the brake pedal is used even lightly it energizes the brake controller which will recognize the fact that the coach is slowing even if mainly from the retarder and it will bring on the trailer brakes.
David & Emma Roche
Dino (Golden Doodle)
1999 U270 WTFE 36' Build # 5534
Xtreme "Lights, Stripes & Roof"
Motorcade# 18321
Dayton, Ohio
Towd: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Two Townie Electra Bikes

Life is made to enjoy, the Foretravel helps!

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #5 –
Quote from: "Irish" –
Brake controllers use an inertia pendulum, the faster the tow vehicle slows down or the harder the braking system slows the vehicle the more braking power it will ask the trailer to apply.
Brake controllers are not connected to the coach braking system, but are connected to the tow vehicle brake light circuit.
If only the retarder is used to brake the coach the brake controller will ignore the slow down, if the brake pedal is used even lightly it energizes the brake controller which will recognize the fact that the coach is slowing even if mainly from the retarder and it will bring on the trailer brakes.

Some Foretravel setups activate the brake lights when the retarder is activated while others do not. Therefore the above statements may or may not be accurate--depending upon the configuration of each individual coach.
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #6 –
Quote from: D.J. Osborn –
Some Foretravel setups activate the brake lights when the retarder is activated while others do not. Therefore the above statements may or may not be accurate--depending upon the configuration of each individual coach.
I don't have a retarder, so I'm only a casual observer.  I have noted in the past some discussions about this subject: "Should the retarder activate the coach brake lights"?  Some say "Yes" and some say "No".  Have read good justification for both opinions.  Interesting (to me) that Foretravel appeared to be indecisive on the question.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"It goes without saying..."

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
I don't have a retarder, so I'm only a casual observer.  I have noted in the past some discussions about this subject: "Should the retarder activate the coach brake lights"?  Some say "Yes" and some say "No".  Have read good justification for both opinions.  Interesting (to me) that Foretravel appeared to be indecisive on the question.

I have my brake lights unplugged from the retarder . One, because every sneeze in the road when the retarder activates, it turns off the cruise control. Yes, I can turn the retarder off, but then I come flying off the freeway, forgetting it's off.

Second is because I run  an Invisa brake in my toad, which is activated by the brake lights. Every time the retarder activates the brake lights, the Jeep brakes apply.

As far as brake lights on my FT go, if I am actually stopping with any force, my foot is on the brake pedal. Hence brake lights.
I can't stand following someone, that keeps riding the brakes in traffic, seeing their brake lights constantly on and off.

Chris
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #8 –
Chris,

You mention some of the common reasons for "No" on retarder/brake light connection...all valid.

IIRC, some reasons for "Yes" on the question are:

1.  Coming down a mountain road with heavy retarder action, cars/trucks behind you may not realize you are going slower than expected.

2.  At night, drivers behind you (probably texting) will not recognize the fact that you are slowing down until it is too late.

Probably others, but can't remember them right now.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"It goes without saying..."

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Chris,

You mention some of the common reasons for "No" on retarder/brake light connection...all valid.

IIRC, some reasons for "Yes" on the question are:

1.  Coming down a mountain road with heavy retarder action, cars/trucks behind you may not realize you are going slower than expected.

2.  At night, drivers behind you (probably texting) will not recognize the fact that you are slowing down until it is too late.

Probably others, but can't remember them right now.

Those are certainly some reasons to consider, and I have.

Down mountain roads, my foot is on the brake also. Hence, brake lights.

If I was to go that slow, I would have my 4 ways on.

I have insurance for those that are texting and following too close., but rarely do I drive my FT at night anyway.

A retarder is not going to stop a coach so hard that someone is going to rear-end you, if they do, they are way too close to start with.

It is NOT illegal to have no brake lights with a retarder.

Just my thoughts, and I realize some may not agree.

Cheers Chris
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Chris,

You mention some of the common reasons for "No" on retarder/brake light connection...all valid.

IIRC, some reasons for "Yes" on the question are:

1.  Coming down a mountain road with heavy retarder action, cars/trucks behind you may not realize you are going slower than expected.

2.  At night, drivers behind you (probably texting) will not recognize the fact that you are slowing down until it is too late.

Probably others, but can't remember them right now.
Chuck, just curious, do your brake lights come on with your exhaust brake? I see a lot of trucks using exhaust and jake brakes that are not attached to the brake lights.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #11 –
Quote from: jcus –
Chuck, just curious, do your brake lights come on with your exhaust brake?
No, there is no connection between our exhaust brake and the brake light circuit.  I think I remember seeing something in the original installation instructions about a optional wiring terminal that would activate the brake lights, but whoever installed ours did not use it.

Not as critical I guess with exhaust brake, cuz even the maximum braking action is much less abrupt and effective compared to a retarder.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"It goes without saying..."

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #12 –
 If the brake lights are always on they become running lights. 

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Protech Racing –
If the brake lights are always on they become running lights.

There you go. My thoughts exactly.

After driving back from the 4 wide race in a rental car, watching everybody hitting the brakes constantly for no reason other then they were all following too close, you begin to think of " crying wolf" One begins to ignore them.
Chris
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
Previous owners 1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #14 –
Quote from: jcus –
I see a lot of trucks using exhaust and jake brakes that are not attached to the brake lights.

That's as it should be, at least in my opinion. I use my retarder to gradually slow down or to maintain speed on a downgrade, but I use my brakes (which activate the retarder) to stop. Therefore, I want my stop lamps and my Center High Mount Stop Lamp (CHMSL) to be activated when I'm stopping and not just when gradually slowing down. (I find it interesting that in the Federal Motor Vehicle Standard they are actually called "stop" lamps.)
David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #15 –
So am I reading that when the retarder slows down the coach the service brakes are not activated it is only the motor doing the  slowing.
The lights coming on does not mean the service brakes are being used
My brake lights come on with the retarder, if there is a wire that can be disconnected to keep them from coming on with the retarder and only when I push the brake pedal where is it. I am with you guys, they are brake lights not running lights..

Keith
The selected media item is not currently available.Keith & Jo
2003 U320T 4025 PBBS Designer series
Build 6203    Cummins 500hp
2000 U320 4010 WTFE / Build 5762 —Sold—
Motorcade #18070   
Pasadena, Texas
2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara-Sunset Orange pearl coat
Don't argue with a fool, people watching might not be able to tell the difference.

Re: Question about electric trailer brakes

Reply #16 –
Thanks guys interesting read that got me wondering how my exhaust brake actually operates and how to best use it. I can switch it on or off, same with the brake lights each with an red ON indicater light. What I do know, if you lift off the thottle entirely it engages, so there must be end switch somewhere. I have a exhaust back pressure gauge that is now functional, and a manual joystick to increase or decrease back pressure up to the 28 psi redline. Works quite well on my 10.4. liter cat. As I don't touch the brake pedal on 6% long straight interstate grades very often. Before I fixed the broken exhaust pressure tubing to the gauge  I used to get a very nice audible hiss when it was on, and how hard it was working. Is there someway to recreate a audible signal electronically?
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake