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Inverter efficiency

Does any of the small inverters that are being used here have a chart showing their efficiency at specific power outputs.

I read where Victron went to a single transformer to increase their efficiency at low power levels.

They published a white paper on there 24 volt units with such a chart.

It would seem to be necessary to maximize the inverters efficiency to the actual loads used would it not.

Obviously other factors influence any choice. 

But the chart would seem paramount.

Judging by both the Victron 24 volt curve in their white paper and in the published info from Magnum and others the units have a "sweet spot" in their output.

The max efficiency shown changes greatly as the power output increases.

The difference between a 85% unit and a 90% or above over time is quite a bit.

Or is there a way for anyone to verify a units efficiency at a specific level?

Edit:  I talked with Victrons North American distributor and they are seeing if a chart showing the info is available.

Their changing from two to a single transformer for better results looks like the best unit for efficiency subject to the chart.  Will post

Thanks. 

 

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #1 –
Post what you read with a site if you can... Makes for a great conversation with some facts or some paperwork for discussion.

Would be nice to post each brands specs so we can kill this once and for all

I added a cert for discussion

Fine print.... just in case it was missed

"The  'US'  indicator  adjacent  to  the LabTest  CertificationMark  shall  signify  that  the  product  has  been  evaluated  by  an  accredited  laboratory  to  the applicable UL Standards. The subject area shall be displayed with the LabTest Certification Mark to identify the Standard Number, and Revision Level."

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #2 –
The Victron white paper on their 24 volt inverters mentions specifically that they comply to UL1741 stds.

Trying to get a spec sheet on the 12v units

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
The Victron white paper on their 24 volt inverters mentions specifically that they comply to UL1741 stds.

Trying to get a spec sheet on the 12v units
how old is the white paper?

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #4 –
spec sheet

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Multiplus-inverter-charger_2kVA-and-3kVA-120V-US-EN.pdf

The units are ETL US stickered to these standards:

EN 60335-1  and

EN 60335-2-29

Ul will sell you the whitepapaer and Standard ofr thier EN 60335-1 standard here: UL - 60335-1 Safety of Household and Similar Appliances, Part 1: General...

It is not available free -

FWIW, I have a Magnum 2012 in my boats and a Victron Multiplus 3000 in my Foretravel - they both have the same exact ETL US sticker - Magnum (at least on my 2012 ) did not pay for a UL certification, the used ETL (European Testing Laboratories) same as Victron, I assume to EN60335-1 standard But I wasnt going to bring this up, since I already have in the past to no avail.....

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #5 –
THD (total harmonic distortion) should be less than 6% but nice to have one <3%. Think many fudge on the efficiency. Remote panel/control nice too. I'm buying a via China model but expect most are made there. Anyone considering on for AC will need 3 times 1500 watts for startup so probably 2500 watts RMS. Lots of solar needed for just 1500 watts RMS.

Pierce

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
THD (total harmonic distortion) should be less than 6% but nice to have one <3%. Think many fudge on the efficiency. Remote panel/control nice too. I'm buying a via China model but expect most are made there. Anyone considering on for AC will need 3 times 1500 watts for startup so probably 2500 watts RMS. Lots of solar needed for just 1500 watts RMS.



For sure, when I am running ac [micro-air, so no starting surge] on inverter, solar on a good day will supply about 80 amps, that means batteries, or batteries and alternator must supply 70 or more amps.
My inverter manufacturer claims + or - 2% THD

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #7 –
White paper is from may 2018

Here is the link:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Output-rating-operating-temperature-and-efficiency.pdf

I asked for the same info on the 12v units.

The lower weight more efficient at certain power output is a good thing. 

Most here never run their inverter in weather and loads hard enough to cause it to derate much.






Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #8 –
Doesn't ETL stand for Electrical Testing Laboratory?

Victron is designed in Denmark.  40 person office. Had an employement ad on the internet with that info.

They are built  in India as far as I was told.



 

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #10 –
Dutch is it.  Nothing made there

Here is the job opening info

Victron Energy was founded in 1975 by Reinout Vader. Victron designs and sells inverters, chargers and more related power conversion products. The company has 95 employees, which includes 35 R&D engineers. We are a technology focused and sales driven company, and to stay leading, we rely on a strong R&D team. Most products contain software, and lately more and more of our unique features are in software. The company structure is flat: management is done by Reinout and Matthijs Vader, and everybody reports directly to one of both. For more information, see Victron Energy.

Designs. 

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
TAnyone considering on for AC will need 3 times 1500 watts for startup so probably 2500 watts RMS. Lots of solar needed for just 1500 watts RMS.

Pierce
The next time I run the roof AC I'll try and remember to put my clamp on ammeter, with peak hold, on it. Try and get a fix on true locked rotor current. Original Penguin 13,500 units.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Dutch is it.  Nothing made there
No comment. Don't want another informative inverter thread shut down. Enjoy learning about different inverters without any brand bias.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #13 –
Just the facts mam

I am impressed that the Victron looks like the most efficient inverter for low loads and mild temps. 

Seems they intentionally chose that design idea versus more heat sink designed for high loads and temps without derating as much

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #14 –
Quote from: MisterEd –
The next time I run the roof AC I'll try and remember to put my clamp on ammeter, with peak hold, on it. Try and get a fix on true locked rotor current. Original Penguin 13,500 units.
Have done that with my surge guard remote panel and with an amprobe, pretty amazed when it showed 29 amps for a half second or so.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #15 –
Quote from: jcus –
Have done that with my surge guard remote panel and with an amprobe, pretty amazed when it showed 29 amps for a half second or so.
Yeah, start current can be surprisingly high. My machine tools are 3 phase and I have installed a VFD on the lathe and mill, instead of a rotary phase converter, eliminating start current issues. I'm off grid with 11KW of inverter capacity, but still prefer not to smack em with that much inrush.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #16 –
Quote from: MisterEd –
Yeah, start current can be surprisingly high. My machine tools are 3 phase and I have installed a VFD on the lathe and mill, instead of a rotary phase converter, eliminating start current issues. I'm off grid with 11KW of inverter capacity, but still prefer not to smack em with that much inrush.
Agree. worked on ships with 3 phase motors. lot easier on the generators.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #17 –
Quote from: jcus –
No comment. Don't want another informative inverter thread shut down. Enjoy learning about different inverters without any brand bias.
Victron seems to be one of the top brands but they have advertised in the past not to be Mac friendly and since we are all Mac, that eliminated them. But now, things seem to be changing. See the latest VictronConnect that even includes iOS, Android and even Bluetooth if you have a Mac: VictronConnect v1.2 released: Now includes Mac OS X & Windows PC - Victron...

Pierce

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #18 –
My Victron equipment works great with my Mac's and android phone but NOT on bluetooth with my Windows laptop that I use only for VMSpc.  Hopefully they'll get that going soon.  It would be nice to see my BMV-712 while I'm driving.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
Victron seems to be one of the top brands but they have advertised in the past not to be Mac friendly and since we are all Mac, that eliminated them. But now, things seem to be changing. See the latest VictronConnect that even includes iOS, Android and even Bluetooth if you have a Mac: VictronConnect v1.2 released: Now includes Mac OS X & Windows PC - Victron...

Pierce
Downloaded but it asks for a password .. without password it has no functions beside volts and something else