Inverter efficiency

Topic: Inverter efficiency (Read 1010 times) previous topic - next topic

Inverter efficiency

July 22, 2019, 11:07:42 am

Does any of the small inverters that are being used here have a chart showing their efficiency at specific power outputs.

I read where Victron went to a single transformer to increase their efficiency at low power levels.

They published a white paper on there 24 volt units with such a chart.

It would seem to be necessary to maximize the inverters efficiency to the actual loads used would it not.

Obviously other factors influence any choice.

But the chart would seem paramount.

Judging by both the Victron 24 volt curve in their white paper and in the published info from Magnum and others the units have a "sweet spot" in their output.

The max efficiency shown changes greatly as the power output increases.

The difference between a 85% unit and a 90% or above over time is quite a bit.

Or is there a way for anyone to verify a units efficiency at a specific level?

Edit: I talked with Victrons North American distributor and they are seeing if a chart showing the info is available.

Their changing from two to a single transformer for better results looks like the best unit for efficiency subject to the chart. Will post

Thanks.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #1 – July 22, 2019, 12:53:13 pm

Post what you read with a site if you can... Makes for a great conversation with some facts or some paperwork for discussion.

Would be nice to post each brands specs so we can kill this once and for all

I added a cert for discussion

Fine print.... just in case it was missed

"The 'US' indicator adjacent to the LabTest CertificationMark shall signify that the product has been evaluated by an accredited laboratory to the applicable UL Standards. The subject area shall be displayed with the LabTest Certification Mark to identify the Standard Number, and Revision Level."

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #2 – July 22, 2019, 02:03:47 pm

The Victron white paper on their 24 volt inverters mentions specifically that they comply to UL1741 stds.

Trying to get a spec sheet on the 12v units

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #3 – July 22, 2019, 02:34:14 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – July 22, 2019, 02:03:47 pm

The Victron white paper on their 24 volt inverters mentions specifically that they comply to UL1741 stds.

Trying to get a spec sheet on the 12v units

how old is the white paper?

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #4 – July 22, 2019, 02:43:45 pm

spec sheet

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Multiplus-inverter-charger_2kVA-and-3kVA-120V-US-EN.pdf

The units are ETL US stickered to these standards:

EN 60335-1 and

EN 60335-2-29

Ul will sell you the whitepapaer and Standard ofr thier EN 60335-1 standard here: UL - 60335-1 Safety of Household and Similar Appliances, Part 1: General...

It is not available free -

FWIW, I have a Magnum 2012 in my boats and a Victron Multiplus 3000 in my Foretravel - they both have the same exact ETL US sticker - Magnum (at least on my 2012 ) did not pay for a UL certification, the used ETL (European Testing Laboratories) same as Victron, I assume to EN60335-1 standard But I wasnt going to bring this up, since I already have in the past to no avail.....

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #5 – July 22, 2019, 02:52:33 pm

THD (total harmonic distortion) should be less than 6% but nice to have one <3%. Think many fudge on the efficiency. Remote panel/control nice too. I'm buying a via China model but expect most are made there. Anyone considering on for AC will need 3 times 1500 watts for startup so probably 2500 watts RMS. Lots of solar needed for just 1500 watts RMS.

Pierce

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #6 – July 22, 2019, 03:08:17 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 22, 2019, 02:52:33 pm

THD (total harmonic distortion) should be less than 6% but nice to have one <3%. Think many fudge on the efficiency. Remote panel/control nice too. I'm buying a via China model but expect most are made there. Anyone considering on for AC will need 3 times 1500 watts for startup so probably 2500 watts RMS. Lots of solar needed for just 1500 watts RMS.

For sure, when I am running ac [micro-air, so no starting surge] on inverter, solar on a good day will supply about 80 amps, that means batteries, or batteries and alternator must supply 70 or more amps.
My inverter manufacturer claims + or - 2% THD

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #7 – July 22, 2019, 10:42:16 pm

White paper is from may 2018

Here is the link:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Output-rating-operating-temperature-and-efficiency.pdf

I asked for the same info on the 12v units.

The lower weight more efficient at certain power output is a good thing.

Most here never run their inverter in weather and loads hard enough to cause it to derate much.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #8 – July 22, 2019, 11:08:28 pm

Doesn't ETL stand for Electrical Testing Laboratory?

Victron is designed in Denmark. 40 person office. Had an employement ad on the internet with that info.

They are built in India as far as I was told.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #9 – July 22, 2019, 11:31:50 pm

Pretty sure it is a Dutch [Holland] company.
Victron Energy Power Inverters, Chargers and Accessories | Inverters R Us
Contact - Victron Energy
Offices worldwide.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #10 – July 23, 2019, 12:07:51 am

Dutch is it. Nothing made there

Here is the job opening info

Victron Energy was founded in 1975 by Reinout Vader. Victron designs and sells inverters, chargers and more related power conversion products. The company has 95 employees, which includes 35 R&D engineers. We are a technology focused and sales driven company, and to stay leading, we rely on a strong R&D team. Most products contain software, and lately more and more of our unique features are in software. The company structure is flat: management is done by Reinout and Matthijs Vader, and everybody reports directly to one of both. For more information, see Victron Energy.

Designs.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #11 – July 23, 2019, 12:12:20 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 22, 2019, 02:52:33 pm

TAnyone considering on for AC will need 3 times 1500 watts for startup so probably 2500 watts RMS. Lots of solar needed for just 1500 watts RMS.

Pierce

The next time I run the roof AC I'll try and remember to put my clamp on ammeter, with peak hold, on it. Try and get a fix on true locked rotor current. Original Penguin 13,500 units.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #12 – July 23, 2019, 12:14:09 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – July 23, 2019, 12:07:51 am

Dutch is it. Nothing made there

No comment. Don't want another informative inverter thread shut down. Enjoy learning about different inverters without any brand bias.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #13 – July 23, 2019, 12:15:10 am

Just the facts mam

I am impressed that the Victron looks like the most efficient inverter for low loads and mild temps.

Seems they intentionally chose that design idea versus more heat sink designed for high loads and temps without derating as much

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #14 – July 23, 2019, 12:21:43 am

Quote from: MisterEd – July 23, 2019, 12:12:20 am

The next time I run the roof AC I'll try and remember to put my clamp on ammeter, with peak hold, on it. Try and get a fix on true locked rotor current. Original Penguin 13,500 units.

Have done that with my surge guard remote panel and with an amprobe, pretty amazed when it showed 29 amps for a half second or so.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #15 – July 23, 2019, 12:32:23 am

Quote from: jcus – July 23, 2019, 12:21:43 am

Have done that with my surge guard remote panel and with an amprobe, pretty amazed when it showed 29 amps for a half second or so.

Yeah, start current can be surprisingly high. My machine tools are 3 phase and I have installed a VFD on the lathe and mill, instead of a rotary phase converter, eliminating start current issues. I'm off grid with 11KW of inverter capacity, but still prefer not to smack em with that much inrush.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #16 – July 23, 2019, 12:57:59 am

Quote from: MisterEd – July 23, 2019, 12:32:23 am

Yeah, start current can be surprisingly high. My machine tools are 3 phase and I have installed a VFD on the lathe and mill, instead of a rotary phase converter, eliminating start current issues. I'm off grid with 11KW of inverter capacity, but still prefer not to smack em with that much inrush.

Agree. worked on ships with 3 phase motors. lot easier on the generators.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #17 – July 23, 2019, 10:26:47 am

Quote from: jcus – July 23, 2019, 12:14:09 am

No comment. Don't want another informative inverter thread shut down. Enjoy learning about different inverters without any brand bias.

Victron seems to be one of the top brands but they have advertised in the past not to be Mac friendly and since we are all Mac, that eliminated them. But now, things seem to be changing. See the latest VictronConnect that even includes iOS, Android and even Bluetooth if you have a Mac: VictronConnect v1.2 released: Now includes Mac OS X & Windows PC - Victron...

Pierce

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #18 – July 23, 2019, 12:14:09 pm

My Victron equipment works great with my Mac's and android phone but NOT on bluetooth with my Windows laptop that I use only for VMSpc. Hopefully they'll get that going soon. It would be nice to see my BMV-712 while I'm driving.

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #19 – July 23, 2019, 02:21:02 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 23, 2019, 10:26:47 am

Victron seems to be one of the top brands but they have advertised in the past not to be Mac friendly and since we are all Mac, that eliminated them. But now, things seem to be changing. See the latest VictronConnect that even includes iOS, Android and even Bluetooth if you have a Mac: VictronConnect v1.2 released: Now includes Mac OS X & Windows PC - Victron...

Pierce

Downloaded but it asks for a password .. without password it has no functions beside volts and something else

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #20 – July 23, 2019, 06:07:18 pm

I downloaded it onto my MacBook Pro and the demo works fine. You may have to have a Victron product before it will connect or contact Victron directly. Is your product on the Victron list? Looking at the demo, it has a ton of information. Now that it's Mac compatible, I would consider one of their products. Our Midnite controller has been working flawlessly for over 10 years so hard to pass up another one. The Victron does mount a lot easier so lots to consider. Their site gives all the contact information for most countries in the world. Let us know how they respond.

Pierce

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #21 – July 23, 2019, 09:28:16 pm

I'll send them an email tonight or tomorrow. Had it connnected to my multiplus 3000

Wanted a passcode to change any parameters

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #22 – July 23, 2019, 11:46:11 pm

I've been using Victron Connect on my MacBook for a year now. Version is 5.8
Wonder what is the difference with mine and this new Victron Connect version 1.2 ?

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #23 – July 24, 2019, 10:32:25 am

Quote from: DavidS – July 23, 2019, 09:28:16 pm

I'll send them an email tonight or tomorrow. Had it connnected to my multiplus 3000

Wanted a passcode to change any parameters

Here is a video that may help. It looks as if the passcode is 000000.

Pierce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yBb7UlWF-o

Re: Inverter efficiency

Reply #24 – July 24, 2019, 11:23:11 am

Quote from: folivier – July 23, 2019, 11:46:11 pm

I've been using Victron Connect on my MacBook for a year now. Version is 5.8
Wonder what is the difference with mine and this new Victron Connect version 1.2 ?

Support for Bluetooth, iOS and Android.

How has your MacBook worked with you Victron? Any problems?

P

Affiliate Notice