UPDATE. Generator problems

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UPDATE. Generator problems

July 22, 2019, 12:11:12 pm

Friday before leaving for the weekend i started the generator to run the air conditioners to cool the coach down before we left. After running for about an hour I heard the generator sounding like it was laboring and I went out to check it and saw a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust, it ran a bit longer and died, I turned things off restarted the generator and it ran somewhat OK until I put a load on it then it started smoking again and died. No lights were on on the panel. We went ahead and left without the Ginny running. Before we left the RV resort I tried to start it just to see if maybe it fixed itself and when it started it immediately began smoking kind of a brown colored smoke, coughed and then died. Both fuel filters on the generator have recently been changed and I have about an hour or less run time on them. I know it's possible that the filters could've picked up some trash and plug even though they are new and I plan to change them tomorrow but if that does not fix the problem what would my next step be to check. Could the fuel pump possibly be bad and was going out, running OK until I put a load on it and then would not supply the diesel the generator needed and is just gone downhill since then to where it won't run at all now. I know smoking diesel is typically either lack of fuel or lack of air. Thursday before all this started I change the air filter And it ran fine after that. I checked air filter because that was fairly easy to do at the RV park and it all looked OK so I don't think air in is the issue. Any ideas or suggestions as usual are greatly appreciated from this great place. It is a Power Tech 10kw generator in a 2000 U320.

Thanks

Keith

Re: Generator problems

Reply #1 – July 22, 2019, 01:52:45 pm

Before anything! You should not smell raw diesel at generator or at any diesel engine. Smelling raw diesel at a Diesel engine is good sign of a diesel fuel leak. When you remove fuel filters, drain into clean dry glass, looking at what comes out. raw diesel as we know smells like good diesel. Use your senses, sight and smell. Looking for water, trash, even rust. If that's OK. As they are recent, could put back on. I like to fill with fresh fuel when placing on if possible.
Now check fuel hoses, clamps, material,condition. Hoses should not be stiff, painted, cracking. If length allows. Trim off 1/2 to 1". Put back on, watching clamping tightening. Check all hose points of connection.
On Air Filter, remove make sure there is not foreign objects in intake, housing. That holder and hoses are tight, clean etc. May want to really look down hose, our pests like dark places
Visual inspection of outside of generator. looking for any fluid, loose parts. can even run hands over gently but firmly checking lines, hoses. Radiator do a finger dip, try to get fluid. if not radiator fluid look. (green or red). If it looks milkshake, or has oil on cap base. this is a bad sign. Shows signs of oil into fluid if milkshake. Check belt tightness, quality of belt, fan that its tight.
Diesels should be clean, dry, leak free. So wipe down any mess, I like "Purple stuff" cleaner brand. of course blue paper towels for cleaning.
These recommendations are just helpful hints that might lead to finding something needing looking into.

Brown smoke can mean air restriction. if you have a spare air filter try it out.
Black smoke unburned fuel. too much fuel for rpm.
White condensation in exhast system

Re: Generator problems

Reply #2 – July 22, 2019, 09:15:45 pm

Ok, when I got home from work I went out to investigate and check things out. Ginny started with a small amount of gray smoke, running ok. Started the ac's for a load and exited the coach for a look see. Opened the motor compartment door letting it run. After 5 minutes or so A LOT of black smoke started coming out of the motor compartment from what looked like from the generator side.. I thought it was on fire... I immediately shut it down using the outside toggle and ran to get my tools to take the bolts out of the cover over the generator ( why did the use bolts and so many?). Nothing looked burnt but there was some fallen down insulation on the motor side. I removed the new air filter and restarted the motor. No black smoke after the remaining smoke in the compartment cleared. Gray smoke out the pipe but it cleared quickly..I slid the filter back in and still no problems. Ran it under load for over a hour and it ran fine. The only thing I noticed was the gasket on the new wix air filter was coming apart. I noticed last week when I put it in that the gasket was different than the Fleetguard I took out. Below is a pic of the old and new filter... the not that old Fleetguard went back in and it is running fine.. seeing the condition of this gasket after 4 days makes me question the quality of wix filters!!! The filter was tight and wasn't rattling around, put it in Thursday, took it out Saturday to make sure it was clear, and took it out today. The only thing I Did notice was some of the insulation on the wall between the 2 compartments had fallen down on the motor, it was really hot when I removed it..

Keith

Re: Generator problems

Reply #3 – July 22, 2019, 09:47:34 pm

Wix does make top quality filters. But the gasket/mating surface is VERY different from the other filter. Wonder if it is the correct filter.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #4 – July 22, 2019, 09:57:15 pm

WOW! Im with Brett on this one. Go to wix.com and cross your old filter and see if it comes up as the wix part number you have. If it does, I swear Ill never buy another wix filter for my coach ever again.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #5 – July 22, 2019, 09:59:52 pm

Quote from: MT Ted – July 22, 2019, 09:57:15 pm

WOW! Im with Brett on this one. Go to wix.com and cross your old filter and see if it comes up as the wix part number you have. If it does, I swear Ill never buy another wix filter for my coach ever again.

Actually, if it does cross to the Wix filter you have, I would shoot an e-mail with picture of both filters to both generator maker and to Wix.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #6 – July 22, 2019, 10:05:55 pm

I will cross reference it tomorrow, I had the old Fleetguard filter with its number on it with me at Napa, it's what they crossed it with. I saw it was different but figured it would serve the purpose

Keith

Re: Generator problems

Reply #7 – July 22, 2019, 11:44:11 pm

Quote from: hdff – July 22, 2019, 09:15:45 pm

... I immediately shut it down using the outside toggle and ran to get my tools to take the bolts out of the cover over the generator ( why did the use bolts and so many?). Nothing looked burnt but there was some fallen down insulation on the motor side. ... ...The only thing I noticed was the gasket on the new wix air filter was coming apart. I noticed last week when I put it in that the gasket was different than the Fleetguard I took out. Below is a pic of the old and new filter... the not that old Fleetguard went back in and it is running fine.. seeing the condition of this gasket after 4 days makes me question the quality of wix filters!!! ... ...The only thing I Did notice was some of the insulation on the wall between the 2 compartments had fallen down on the motor, it was really hot when I removed it..

Keith

Lots of screws on the cover is likely to reduce the chance of annoying rattles. Yeah, there is a lot of em.

I recently replaced our air filter with a new NAPA (Wix), and noted no issues with the gasket. It looked like the one I removed, sans oil, insulation, and dirt.

The moment you find loose insulation inside the genny cabinet, it's natures way of telling you it's shot. Whatever of it is still remaining will be falling off (and into critical places) shortly. Do yourself a big favor and pull as much of it out as you can. When I did the PDI on ours, there was only a few small pieces of insulation loose in the bottom tray. 10 hours of run time later, the entire left side collapsed, blocking 90%+ of the generator end air intake. Not good! I pulled out all insulation I could get to without complete disassembly, vacuumed the compartment thoroughly, blew compressed air through the generator end until it blew clean, and vacuumed again. A dirty job but only took 20 minutes, once the myriad of screws were removed.

Greg

Re: Generator problems

Reply #8 – July 23, 2019, 12:50:00 am

The previous owner had most of the deteriorated sound insulation removed from our generator case. However, the foil-covered insulating mat that is under the generator was still in place. From what I could see, all it did was trap water and encourage rust on the interior of the generator case. So I removed it. The stuff in my coach had a cork base (see pic) which makes it relatively easy to remove. There are several large holes under the generator which allows one to pull it out from that area. I found that a hacksaw blade worked well to break any glued spots loose. After I got it out, I flushed the area under the generator with soap and hot water. Once it is thoroughly dry, I will treat it with Black Star or some other rust converter.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #9 – July 23, 2019, 01:08:21 am

The insulation in ours appeared to be 4 layers: low density foam, a higher density rubber like material, another layer of foam, topped with some mesh reinforced Mylar. The rubber and Mylar part was in pretty good shape. Had the foam not disintegrated, it would likely still be serviceable. Inside our nose cap, and around the stairwell, appears to be the same material, with the same issue. That stuff makes quite the mess when it gives up.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #10 – July 23, 2019, 03:31:08 pm

Well I crossed it on the wix site and went to Napa, the filter I got was correct.. the store mgr couldn't explain why the gasket was different other than different manufacturers might use different gaskets. Also he said the gasket might have cut itself if it folded over wrong and was tighten to much. 1) I had no control over the gasket because it slides into the housing and you can't see the gasket when installed. 2) Also there was a note on the box that said to be sure to use their washer and wingnut which I did and to be sure that it was tight which I did. He offered to replace it but I opted to just get my money back and I'll get either a factory one or another Fleetguard like the old one. I will not be buying another wix, probably pass on their other filters too.....

Keith

Re: Generator problems

Reply #11 – July 24, 2019, 08:59:44 pm

Well I spoke to soon... ran the Ginny tonite just to make sure everything was still running right, after about 10 mins stArted getting brown smok out the exhaust pipe then heavy black smoke started billowing out of the motor compartment, I quickly shut it down... restarted it and ran for 30 minutes with no issues..... anybody got anything

Re: Generator problems

Reply #12 – July 24, 2019, 11:36:43 pm

Hi Keith,
How many hours on genset? Wondering if something up with the gen itself and not so much the engine. Relationship between load with AC on or not? Maybe turn off the two breakers on gen to see if it will run smoothly, no smoke etc.. Turning them off means no load on the gen at all. Repair shop did that with mine recently. Apologies if my questions show my ignorance. I'm new to gen issues, have some gen problems now myself. Will be watching this thread.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #13 – July 24, 2019, 11:46:10 pm

Quote from: hdff – July 24, 2019, 08:59:44 pm

Well I spoke to soon... ran the Ginny tonite just to make sure everything was still running right, after about 10 mins stArted getting brown smok out the exhaust pipe then heavy black smoke started billowing out of the motor compartment, I quickly shut it down... restarted it and ran for 30 minutes with no issues..... anybody got anything

You've probably already checked but, is any insulation falling on the exhaust manifold or pipe inside the cabinet?

Re: Generator problems

Reply #14 – July 25, 2019, 12:23:17 am

After staring at you photos I think the source of the black smoke is in the generator compartment. The new filter appears to be heavily sooted on the exterior. The interior of the filter appears clean.
Make sure that the black smoke is not coming from the generator end and thoroughly clean and remove loose insulation from the compartment.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #15 – July 25, 2019, 05:46:11 am

yep
the new filter looked as dirty as the old one on the outside, must be pulling in a lot of soot / smoke from the generator box.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #16 – July 25, 2019, 08:52:51 am

I too am still having generator issues. I have changed fuel filters, burped the cooling system, etc.... Last time I ran it was for 90 minutes under load, no issues. This past Sunday, during the heat wave, we were taking our grandsons up to the other grandparents place in Goshen , Indiana for a visit in the motorhome. Car seats strapped in, etc, I shut off park power and started generator which promptly died after a minute or so. I reset outside and started it again, died. Took the car seats out and put them in Subaru so Karen could drive them up with air conditioning. Not me, I drove the coach in over 100 heat index, not sure but maybe lost some weight. lol

I have scheduled appointment with the Powertech Service Dealer in Shipshewanna Friday morning- hopefully they can figure out what is going on. Will keep you advised as to what they find and how it is resolved.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #17 – July 25, 2019, 09:32:59 am

As I have no life. I have been reading, downloading, expanding. Every Generator topic in the vast data base we have here. Things I have learned.
1. Make sure you replace the little metal fuel filter. Napa part # 3046. It is metal, gold if not painted, has tubes on each end, one end has nut shape to allow install/removal. Normally located front center bottom, and on left side of fuel pump. Simple detach fuel lines, use proper size wrench to unscrew, install is reverse. Note. Cap fuel line while screwing in. Use a pen cap, will normally work.
2. It seems you can line up 10 Fts and each generator will have different install, features, etc. Don't panic. Its normal.
3. At least 2 VR are used. Plug and play (pic). Then the big one with wire movement issue. READ INSTRUCTIONS. DUH!
4. Fuel lines 3/8 inch. Make sure you use diesel compatible line. When in doubt, if you have the length on current line. Cut off 1", reattach. This "may" remove possible degraded line at last point.
Fuel lines from tank. Many have had to replace these to fix issue of. Strange running, rpm up/down, then load drop.
There is a very good write up on how to best do the replacement. By Grover D. Look at it.
5. Voltage shooting up (160 say). Is a good indication of pending VR failure.

On this issue.
1. Look on (bad replacement for its actual part number), box may say right filter, but can contain wrong filter!
2. Possibility of filter gasket being down stream from filter, only one place to go. Into engine. Or melt and smoke. Trash into head unit of generator. Blow it out. Insulation would smoke vice burn. Flame retardant.
3. Use your nose. Electrical burning smells different then oil, rubber, etc.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #18 – July 25, 2019, 09:37:52 am

2 picture of plug play VR.

Re: Generator problems

Reply #19 – July 25, 2019, 10:23:56 am

TexHub has is right. Lots of different features unique to every generator.

If you have an electric fuel pump that looks like this one, it's easy to just put a wrench on the bottom and check the filter. Either clean or replace. This one is the deal of the century as they are normally at least $75-$85 or more. They were originally Bendix then Facet with others also making them. They are very common and even found on many small aircraft (as the aux pump). Some generators have the small square electric pumps. OK but not quite as reliable as these: 27149-2093 149-1828 ONAN FUEL PUMP 12 VOLT | eBay

Check pressure before ordering. This one is just about right. Compatible with gasoline and diesel.

Pierce

Re: Generator problems

Reply #20 – July 25, 2019, 01:53:52 pm

Mine was a loose cooling fan belt. Under a cover

Re: Generator problems

Reply #21 – July 27, 2019, 01:34:22 pm

Had an opportunity to do some troubleshooting last nite. Checked the air hose from the filter to the intake, it was clear and not obstructed and pulling a good air flow thru the filter housing when I put the hose back on. While running the motor with the intake hose off I noticed a strong exhaust smell in housing and a lot of heat. Went to the side of the coach near the exhaust pipe and very little exhaust press at the pipe. I pulled the generator out and disassembled some of the housing to get to the exhaust manifold and exhaust line. I found that the bolts that bolt the flex hose to the exhaust manifold were broken and the exhaust heat was blowing out into the enclosure explaining the heat, exhaust smell, and probably why there was soot on the outside of the filter. Now to figure out if I want to attempt the repair or have it done. We are going to New Mexico in a month and I'm not going to have many days off so I'll probably get it fixed.
Also a question to anyone that has a power tech 10 kw Ginny like the one pictured below, there is a emergency light panel (6 or so led lights for various shutdowns) on the Ginny near the breaker and on off switches are, do any of these light up under normal circumstances? The other day when this all started it was hot in the enclosure to the point the generator shut down and was burping water into the overflow tank but no lights were on, makes me wonder if they are working.

Keith

Re: Generator problems

Reply #22 – July 27, 2019, 01:36:36 pm

Pic

Re: UPDATE. Generator problems

Reply #23 – July 27, 2019, 03:19:56 pm

Mine has no lights under operation. Did have an overheat shut down and a red light was on showing why it shut down.. breaker was off at the very top. Had never noticed that reset.. pushed it in and all was good

Re: UPDATE. Generator problems

Reply #24 – July 27, 2019, 04:53:38 pm

Keith,
In my 10kw generator it uses the Donaldson Air Cleaner Canister FW G052510 with air filter P181050. When you cross reference in WIX you get 42276. Attached is my canister and the WIX filter image and the link to their site.
John M.
http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/InterchangeMultiSearch.aspx?q=P181050&o=me

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