SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

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SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

August 20, 2019, 07:03:28 am

Chlorine dioxide, CLCO2, is 10x quicker and kills more organisms than household bleach.

Found a source of chlorine dioxide for about $.35 per 100 gallon tank vs $15 per tank. That's 97% less than some products. You will need to cut a tablet, dissolve it in one gallon of water, then inject it in the tank. These are ClO2 Tablets that can make a 1PPM (Parts Per Million) solution, recommended by a pool chemical purveyor AquaPulse Systems - Industries. See:

#1 Most Effective Pool Chlorine Dioxide Tablets | Essential Algaecide & Pool...

I bought a pound of ClO2 Tablets for $35. This will disinfect my 100 gallon tank 100 times.

No citric acid activator is required. Make sure you flush tanks and pipes with fresh water for safety reasons.

The injector system can be purchased at: Amazon.com : Jacks Classic 70010 Hozon Brass Siphon Mixer : Garden Hoses :...

I'm just an Electrical Engineer, not a chemist, so correct me if I'm wrong.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #1 – August 20, 2019, 08:06:01 am

From what I have found this is a superior treatment for our water lines to kill things.

However, my concern is how this will effect our grey polybutelene pipes used in many older motorhomes, including my FT, build 5040.

I would like to sanitize my polypropylene lines which are more effected by sanitizer than pex. I recently purchased many feet of pex for replacing as much of my lines as posible for a project the summer of 2020.

I do not want to hijack this post as it appears this sanitizer is an improvement over just using chlorine. Therefore I am starting a new thread titled "Replacing polypropylene water lines with pex".
.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #2 – August 20, 2019, 08:26:55 am

What are you using that costs $15/tank to disinfect your fresh tanks? 2 tablespoons of household bleach is sufficient for a full tank of water. I don't think I am going to put anything in my water system than needs to be flushed out for "safety reasons."

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #3 – August 20, 2019, 08:28:36 am

Quote from: Jack Lewis – August 20, 2019, 08:06:01 am

However, my concern is how this will effect our grey polybutelene pipes used in many older motorhomes, including my FT, build 5040.

Jack,
Consider using potassium permanganate, as a side benefit if you do have a little left in the system after flushing, it is safe for human consumption.

Mike

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #4 – August 20, 2019, 10:22:39 am

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – August 20, 2019, 08:26:55 am

What are you using that costs $15/tank to disinfect your fresh tanks? 2 tablespoons of household bleach is sufficient for a full tank of water. I don't think I an going to put anything in my water system than needs to be flushed out for "safety reasons."

Got to go with Roger on this one. Think is was Craneman that had the tip on adding bleach to the hose just before connecting it to fill the tank. A little bleach kills a lot of bugs.

Pierce

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #5 – August 20, 2019, 01:06:24 pm

Roger, I did use DiClor initially after coach had been stored for years, but only to sanitize tanks while underway, then drain and replenish with good water. Have used bleach since.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #6 – August 20, 2019, 02:15:34 pm

For routine in use water treatment I would use a plain unscented bleach like Roger does.

Here is an article on chlorinated water. Water & Health

Here is the wiki on the spa treatment. Which is what municipalities use to treat water. Sodium dichloroisocyanurate - Wikipedia

For a system wide shock kill and flush. I have used a spa chlorine treatment. Sodium Dichloro-s-triazinetrione Dihydrate. It has 55.5% available chlorine. (compared to 3% for household bleach) One teaspoon of this SeaKlear spa treatment stuff will treat 500 hundred gallons to 1.4PPM of chlorine. So just 1/4 teaspoon is needed. So it's potent stuff.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #7 – August 20, 2019, 11:13:58 pm

The $15 treatment was for bottled Purogene and citric acid powder activator. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCGoClUFmY8&t=2s

Thanks for your insight.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #8 – August 21, 2019, 12:22:56 am

Quote from: Tim – August 20, 2019, 11:13:58 pm

The $15 treatment was for bottled Purogene and citric acid powder activator. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCGoClUFmY8&t=2s

Thanks for your insight.

WOW! Talk about safety. NOT. Lets just upend this bottle of strong chemical into a "plastic" water pitcher.

To me he seems a little OCD on the water tank. As he is full time and must use his tank a lot. Just a bit of bleach will do the trick as the germ killing would go on 24/7. No need at all to do a high powered nuclear blast on the water tank. Esp as he has a lot of filter media prior to said tank.

Although I must say that if one needs to sanitize their tank. That purogene looks to be a good product. The wiki on it's chemical properties is interesting and seems to be safer than bleach due to the lack of nasty by products (Trihalomethane) from the decomposition of organic matter when using other forms of chlorine.

Trihalomethanes are formed as a by-product predominantly when chlorine is used to disinfect drinking water. They are generally referred to as disinfection by-products. They result from the reaction of chlorine or bromine with organic matter present in the water being treated. The THMs produced have been associated through epidemiological studies with some adverse health effects.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #9 – August 21, 2019, 09:56:50 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – August 20, 2019, 10:22:39 am

Got to go with Roger on this one. Think is was Craneman that had the tip on adding bleach to the hose just before connecting it to fill the tank. A little bleach kills a lot of bugs.

Pierce

I did the math for my water tank and came up with 18ml of unscented chlorine bleach, added to the water hose from a 25ml "meat" syringe. For the black and gray tanks I add a measure of my regular liquid laundry detergent now and then, definitely before a road trip.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #10 – August 21, 2019, 10:02:36 am

Quote from: Jack Lewis – August 20, 2019, 08:06:01 am

However, my concern is how this will effect our grey polybutelene pipes used in many older motorhomes, including my FT, build 5040.

That's easy. Chlorine is the great killer of polybutylene piping and the acetate fittings used with it. Fresh water, not so much so.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #11 – August 21, 2019, 10:34:28 am

18 ml of chlorine in the tank is not going to shorten the life of anything except for bugs. If you only could see the bitsy bugs you get in your food at restaurants. Also, never a good idea to get on the bad side of your server in a restaurant. I remember a restaurant in Hawaii with low romantic lights. When I put my water glass down on the table, the floor seemed to jump. Hundreds of mice on the floor.

So, I might use a tiny bit of chlorine once a year but normally, I fill at the campsite and forget it. We travel with 20 or 30 gallons in the tank.

Pierce

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #12 – August 21, 2019, 10:54:55 am

If you live in Los Angeles there is enough Chlorine, now Chloramine to test higher than the water in a swimming pool. When I first put goldfish in my pond a week later I added water. 10 minutes later they were upside down on top of the water. I neted the live ones put some of our filtered faucet water in a bowl and they recovered. I have been motorhoming since 1983 and never sanitized a tank. Probably because I have always had a good water filter and refilled at home after each trip. I followed this thread as maybe I will be gone longer than 45 days at a time now and might have to address the issue.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #13 – August 21, 2019, 11:06:07 am

Our sticks and bricks has a well. Chlorinated water has a chemical taste to us. I have been using household bleach for years in my rig, but I will try chlorine dioxide soon. In the 95 degree temperatures and 100% humidity in the tank, just one black mold spore will multiply quickly, so I will sanitize the tank if it's been sitting for a month.

It's interesting that they use chlorine dioxide to sanitize cars and motel rooms. As a gas, it kills almost all organic organisms and molecules, including mold, algae, mildew and smoke. Just close up your vehicle, release the gas, and in about an hour, the vehicle or room is sanitized.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #14 – August 21, 2019, 12:51:49 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – August 21, 2019, 10:34:28 am

18 ml of chlorine in the tank is not going to shorten the life of anything except for bugs. If you only could see the bitsy bugs you get in your food at restaurants. Also, never a good idea to get on the bad side of your server in a restaurant. I remember a restaurant in Hawaii with low romantic lights. When I put my water glass down on the table, the floor seemed to jump. Hundreds of mice on the floor.

So, I might use a tiny bit of chlorine once a year but normally, I fill at the campsite and forget it. We travel with 20 or 30 gallons in the tank.

Pierce, the polybutylene acetate piping only failed where there was municipal chlorine, so it doesn't take much to make the stuff rot from the inside out. Because everyone has a bottle of liquid bleach in their laundry room it's easy to forget how powerful chlorine really is.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #15 – August 21, 2019, 01:30:16 pm

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – August 21, 2019, 12:51:49 pm

Pierce, the polybutylene acetate piping only failed where there was municipal chlorine, so it doesn't take much to make the stuff rot from the inside out. Because everyone has a bottle of liquid bleach in their laundry room it's easy to forget how powerful chlorine really is.

We are on a well so fill part way from that before trips. The rest of the time, most of our campgrounds don't have chlorinated water so we rarely get any but I have to admit, I have never thought about the negative effects on plastics. Love to have an ozone generator to kill any bugs in the tank without any taste. Europe and most of the world uses ozone instead of chlorine in their municipal water. Small generators are inexpensive and would be a good solution as the ozone does more than kill bugs. The ozone O3 quickly combines with H2O so no danger drinking it.

Ozone info: How Does Ozone Water Purification Work? | DoItYourself.com

Pierce

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #16 – August 22, 2019, 07:32:31 am

Excellent thought. See attached image for a concept image. So, can a$40 O3 bubbler hose, sunk to the bottom of our water tank, be viable?

PROS
- No chlorine. No noxious chemicals.
- No wasted water. No flushing.
- Drinking water created by simple tap filter. No huge 3-stage filter or Reverse Osmosis system required because bugs are converted to insoluble, filterable particles.
- Simple to use. Just flip a switch.

CONS
- Must ventilate tank to prevent O3 explosion?
- Complex O3 generator? E.g. UV lamp, aquarium-type air pump?
- Cost of O3 generator ($40) and electric power (20 watts)

See: NEW Commercial Ozone Generator 400mg/h O3 Water & Air Purifier Deodorizer | eBay

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #17 – August 22, 2019, 07:45:43 am

Most of the newer spas that I put in with the crane used an ozone generator instead of Bromine, Chlorine doesn't last in a heated spa. The 8x8 ones held 475 gals. Maybe something to look into.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #18 – August 22, 2019, 11:40:38 am

I would be careful of an O3 air source in an enclosed area. I have one of those old Alpine air odor killers. When reading up on O3 It is nasty stuff when you breath it before the O3 breaks down into O2. O3 in water can be really hard on metal fixtures and rubber.

Funny how things come full circle. Remember the smog clouds of the 1970's over our cities in the summer? That was from high levels of O3 (ozone) After a vigorous effort to lower O3. We are now actively seeking to pump more of it into the air. How soon we forget.

Of course we humans are prone to (me included) Rube Goldberg syndrome.

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #19 – August 22, 2019, 02:21:47 pm

Ozone O3 is inherently unstable and changes into elemental oxygen very quickly after being introduced to water H2O. It does not add to the Ozone layer.

Pierce

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #20 – August 23, 2019, 04:35:53 pm

Is it viable and safe to:

1. Cut two holes in the top of my U270 water tank.
2. insert an O3 tube with a bubble stone and a stainless steel sinker into the bottom of the tank, like aquariums do.
3. Insert a air pipe into the very top of the tank, which will push out the O3 out the overflow tube.
4. Seal the two new tubes.

The O3 tube would connect to an O3 generator. The air pipe would force the O3 out of the tank.

Does this sound like a simple solution to the chlorine issue?

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #21 – August 23, 2019, 07:39:37 pm

Quote from: Tim – August 23, 2019, 04:35:53 pm

Is it viable and safe to:
1. Cut two holes in the top of my U270 water tank.
2. insert an O3 tube with a bubble stone and a stainless steel sinker into the bottom of the tank, like aquariums do.
3. Insert a air pipe into the very top of the tank, which will push out the O3 out the overflow tube.
4. Seal the two new tubes.
The O3 tube would connect to an O3 generator. The air pipe would force the O3 out of the tank.
Does this sound like a simple solution to the chlorine issue?

There should not be any ozone left to vent after it has lost an atom if the ozone was mixed correctly with the water. The big advantages to Ozone in municipal water systems is that it combines with the water not very far from the point it in introduced. So, no smell and no Ozone when you turn on your tap. The big disadvantage is that if there is a leak allowing pollutants to get into the water pipe more than a short distance from the point of introduction, there is no O3 to kill the bugs, etc. It does its thing and then combines with the water from a few seconds to 30 minutes. Filters are advised post treatment.

Quote: Ozone is an unstable gas comprising of three oxygen atoms, the gas will readily degrade back to oxygen, and during this transition a free oxygen atom, or free radical form. The free oxygen radical is highly reactive and short lived, under normal conditions it will only survive for milliseconds.

Article at: Water Research Center - Ozonation in Water Treatment

Pierce

Re: SUPERIOR TANK SANITIZER - CHLORINE DIOXIDE

Reply #22 – August 24, 2019, 05:08:50 am

Anyone know what plastic our water tanks are made of?

Ozone is compatible with materials as follows:

A = Excellent - no effect from ozone in normal operation

B = Good - some oxidation from ozone, these materials can work with low ozone concentrations or short-term (less than 6-month) usage

C = Fair - major effect from ozone oxidation, these materials should only be used for short-term applications or very low ozone levels

D = Poor - severe oxidation from ozone will be noticed quickly.

ABS plastic   B - Good
Acetal (Delrin®)   C - Fair
Aluminum   A - Excellent
Brass   B - Good
Bronze   B - Good
Buna N (Nitrile)   D - Poor
Carbon Steel   C - Fair
Cast iron   C - Fair
Ceramic   A - Excellent
ChemRaz (FFKM)   B - Good
Copper   A - Excellent
CPVC   A - Excellent
EPDM   B - Good
Fluorocarbon (FKM)   A - Excellent
Hastelloy-C®   A - Excellent
HDPE   B - Good
Hypalon®   A - Excellent
Hytrel®   C - Fair
Kalrez   A - Excellent
Kel-F®   A - Excellent
LDPE   C - Fair
Natural rubber   D - Poor
Neoprene   C - Fair
NORYL®   B - Good
Nylon   D - Poor
Polycarbonate   A - Excellent
Polyetherether Ketone (PEEK)   A - Excellent
Polyethylene   B - Good
Polypropylene   B - Good
Polyurethane   A - Excellent
PTFE   A - Excellent
PVC   B - Good
PVDF (Kynar®)   A - Excellent
Silicone   A - Excellent
stainless steel - 304   B - Good
stainless steel - 316   A - Excellent
Titanium   A - Excellent
Tygon®   B - Good
Viton®   A - Excellent

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