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Topic: Power needle resembles windshield washer. (Read 640 times) previous topic - next topic

Power needle resembles windshield washer.

I left our Powerwatch in place when I added the Victron CCGX.  Currently when I run the gen set it remains stable until I turn on the AC.  With the AC on the needle looks like a slow windshield wiper going back and forth.  When on shore power there is no similar variation.  The CCGX doesn't vary in the same manner but shows 121 rather consistently but does show the Hz out varying from 59.5 to 61.  Not sure what I am seeing and if it is the voltage regulator on the 1997 8k Isuzu. 

The Progressive which is wired after the switch and before the box doesn't detect anything either.

Within normal limits?
George and Steph
1997 U270 36 Build 5081 "Honu"
1180w Solar 400A lithium all Victron house system
Motorcade 17670, SKP 128300, FMCA F459019
73 VW Camper, 79 VW Camper, 2363 Sunline, and an Arctic Fox 25P

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #1 –
Fuel lines?  Valve adjustment? Voltage regulator? Injectors?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #2 –
Fuel lines and injectors are good...no perceivable variation in rpms after load added.  Valves set less than 50 hours, two years, ago by Beau.  Bell bearing replaced.  Serviced and load tested at Cummins less than a month ago.  Did this before servicing but didn't ask and just trying to understand what it is telling me if anything.
George and Steph
1997 U270 36 Build 5081 "Honu"
1180w Solar 400A lithium all Victron house system
Motorcade 17670, SKP 128300, FMCA F459019
73 VW Camper, 79 VW Camper, 2363 Sunline, and an Arctic Fox 25P

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #3 –
Quote from: George and Steph –
Fuel lines and injectors are good...no perceivable variation in rpms after load added.  Valves set less than 50 hours, two years, ago by Beau.  Bell bearing replaced.  Serviced and load tested at Cummins less than a month ago.  Did this before servicing but didn't ask and just trying to understand what it is telling me if anything.
You're seeing normal engine speed variation under load.  There has to be some variation otherwise the governor will hunt without end.  This way once the load stabilizes so does the engine speed.

Now if you want to see meter needle swings, c'mon down and I'll fire up our vintage Onan and the two air conditioners.  In my household the voltage variation wasn't a problem until we got a Powerwatch Meter.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #4 –
Thank you for the explanation.  Makes sense and nice to learn something new.
George and Steph
1997 U270 36 Build 5081 "Honu"
1180w Solar 400A lithium all Victron house system
Motorcade 17670, SKP 128300, FMCA F459019
73 VW Camper, 79 VW Camper, 2363 Sunline, and an Arctic Fox 25P

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #5 –
While on the subject of the PowerWatch volt meter, I have a question.  There is a small plastic "screw" with a blade slot at the base of the needle.  What is the purpose of that screw?  I thought it might be either a way to adjust the needle (ie calibrate the meter), OR a "damper" to reduce the needle swings discussed above.  However, I have tried turning it (about 1/2 turn) both ways and it doesn't seem to do anything.  So what's it for?
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Surely, no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time."

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
While on the subject of the PowerWatch volt meter, I have a question.  There is a small plastic "screw" with a blade slot at the base of the needle.  What is the purpose of that screw?  I thought it might be either a way to adjust the needle (ie calibrate the meter), OR a "damper" to reduce the needle swings discussed above.  However, I have tried turning it (about 1/2 turn) both ways and it doesn't seem to do anything.  So what's it for?
That is to zero it. Very small amount of movement with no power.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #7 –
My gen is/was having a few intermittent voltage issues and we noted that the powerwatch only shows one ac leg.

To allow monitoring of both legs I had my buddy install a Bluesea M2 OLED monitor panel. 

Second ac leg was in the china hutch's underneath electric plug. 

With some minor wiring routing challenges  we connected the new gauge to both legs in a new panel replacing the powerwatch and the lower red led amp panel. 

The new blue sea display has adjustable alarms and displays both legs amp use, voltages and cycles

I wonder if the powerwatch needles movements were internal to it. Not actually in the gen circuit?







"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #8 –
Quote from: craneman –
That is to zero it. Very small amount of movement with no power.
How do you "zero" it, when it never indicates zero?  The bottom number on the scale is 90.  Should the needle point exactly at 90 when there is no AC power connected to the coach?

For comparison, I plug my Kill A Watt monitor into the outlet next to the PowerWatch.  The PowerWatch seems to always read about 2 volts lower than the Kill A Watt.  I would like to move the PowerWatch needle UP 2 volts.  Tomorrow morning, I will try disconnecting from shore power and see if I can adjust the needle up a bit.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Surely, no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time."

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #9 –
It should point to the lowest number on the gauge without power. The screw should put it there.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #10 –
My Powerwatch needle was always way off.  I took it out completely when I installed the new Xanrex inverter/charger SW2012.  Now all voltage readings are to me accurate with my Xantrex showing the voltage on it's leg, line 1, which matches the Hughes bluetooth portable EMS with low and high voltage cutoff, from the outside 50 amp park post.  The hard wired Progressive EMS always reads one or two volts higher than the other two. To me this has not been an issue, however, I will contact Progressive about this.  There is no printed spec on percentage accuracy of the voltage readout, just the cutout points of 104 and 132

Notes with above items: Hughes application on my phone, reads digital amps out in 10ths, compared to Progressive reading only whoIe amps.  I do enjoy the bluetooth phone app on the Hughes, it shows watts and kwh as well as the voltage and amps for both incoming lines 1 and 2 instantly and on one screen.  In contrast the remote meter of the Progressive EMS also shows the frequency in htz which is usefull, however the revolving display of the Progressive EMS takes seconds longer to get an instant read as it toggles thru the readouts of data and I have to walk to the display compared to just glancing at my phone.  Trivial, however important differences.

The real important thing is that I now have confidence I am well protected. Twice I have come back to my rv last week with the power interrupted and restarted.  The way I know is the one digital clock I have on a none inverter backed up plug has twice reset to 12 noon.  I'm in an older rv park and have seen the power go down as low as 107 with many in the park a/cs going.  Obvious now it dropped lower than 104V twice when I
did not notice.

Also in checking with Progressive regarding a unit before the ATS (automatic transfer switch) and adding one after, it was no problem, infact they said that was a good thing, doubling up or combing the joules of protection against a surge.

I'm feeling well protected with my current setup.  I am glad to have both EMS units, both with easy readouts and similar low and high voltage cutouts and with accurate voltage readings compared to my original Powerwatch (even though a volt or two different from each other).

I will update this post today with a few screenshot from the Huges WatchDog and later if anything changes.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #11 –
Thanks for the responses they clear up a number of questions for me.  I will probably remove the Powerwatch and place the Progressive digital in its place.

Jack I am using two as well.  When we bought the coach I picked up their portable for the post until we could hardwire.  Currently we use it to initially test the post.  Then secure it and plug in.
George and Steph
1997 U270 36 Build 5081 "Honu"
1180w Solar 400A lithium all Victron house system
Motorcade 17670, SKP 128300, FMCA F459019
73 VW Camper, 79 VW Camper, 2363 Sunline, and an Arctic Fox 25P

Re: Power needle resembles windshield washer.

Reply #12 –
I also have two Progressive units.  The double capacity for spikes is interesting.  Lots of well thought out safety info here.  The use of both probably is not my normal use.  But a backup or to help out a good buddy seems more normal.  But the test is a good idea as in my case I would have to enter the coach to see what's going on.  Thanks for the idea.

Bob
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4