Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Topic: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program) (Read 1516 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from New Diesel Fuel Disco...

Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

September 04, 2019, 05:10:31 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – September 04, 2019, 03:31:23 pm

The first time I filled up an nearly empty tank with unlabeled B20, it cost me two fuel filter changes to get back to normal.

What, exactly, was being filtered out of the fuel that caused you to have to change two fuel filters?

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #1 – September 04, 2019, 05:40:53 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – September 04, 2019, 05:10:31 pm

What, exactly, was being filtered out of the fuel that caused you to have to change two fuel filters?

Otherwise harmless dirt and sludge, maybe some algae. This was 7 years ago, the coach was 9 years old, long enough for a nice accumulation that was happy to be where it was. Harmless until the Biodiesel did its job, acting as a solvent, detaching all the bad stuff and sending it to the fuel filters. It is nice to clean out the fuel system, not so nice on the road.

Now the coach is seven years older, and I have no idea if the system is still clean or has a new accumulation.

I just went through my rvtripwizard trip plan for GrandVention. I had planned my stops to based on diesel prices, but have changed them based on avoiding B20. The entire state of Texas is B20, so I will be entering Texas from NM with a full tank, driving to Nac and part way back, only adding 70 gallons once, before exiting TX for another fill in NM

Arizona is even more a challenge. I'll be filling up in Kingman instead of Williams in order to avoid B20 there, and also in Benson. Unfortunately I'm stuck with B20 in Quartzsite to avoid high Calif prices, and again B20 near home to top off the tank with California taxed diesel.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #2 – September 04, 2019, 05:58:58 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – September 04, 2019, 03:31:23 pm

My next task is to find which stations pump pure diesel or B5. Love's website shows some stations are pumping pure diesel, some B5, some B10, some B15, and some B19 (they promise less than 20% biodiesel). I intend to avoid large fill-ups of higher percentage biodiesel.The first time I filled up an nearly empty tank with unlabeled B20, it cost me two fuel filter changes to get back to normal.

I can't fault you for wanting to avoid potential problems, but I've been using biodiesel as high as B20 for several years with no problems. In fact, even though it has somewhat less energy than pure diesel, I'm thankful for biodiesel's added lubricity and I suspect it's also good for keeping the system clean. Since you have already thoroughly cleaned your system, if I were you I wouldn't be afraid at this point to use the higher percentage biodiesel.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #3 – September 04, 2019, 06:07:54 pm

Biodiesel Questions and Answers | Cummins Inc.
Sometimes you can't avoid B20 but not my preference.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #4 – September 04, 2019, 06:30:01 pm

I'm not "afraid" of B20, but I don't wish to have clogged filters again on a trip. I've slightly revised my plan for GV and Nac to minimize the amount of Biodiesel in the tank. At no time should the tank contain 10% biodiesel. I feel okay with that.

This simply means no back to back B20 fill ups. For me a fill up is half of the 180 gallon capacity.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #5 – September 04, 2019, 06:34:01 pm

Quote from: jcus – September 04, 2019, 06:07:54 pm

Biodiesel Questions and Answers | Cummins Inc.
Sometimes you can't avoid B20 but not my preference.

Don't that beat all. My ISL was built before 2007. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I need to avoid B20 like the plague.

What Cummins engines can be used with B20 biodiesel?
The current approved engine models are as follows:

On-Highway: ISX, ISM, ISL, ISV5.0 and ISB engines built after January 2007. ISX CM570 built after January 2002.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #6 – September 04, 2019, 07:13:00 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – September 04, 2019, 06:34:01 pm

Don't that beat all. My ISL was built before 2007. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I need to avoid B20 like the plague.

Keep in mind that their list probably means that they have tested those engines, but it doesn't necessarily mean there will be problems with engines they haven't tested. I've used blends as high as B20 in our 1995 M11 engine with no problems.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #7 – September 04, 2019, 08:00:04 pm

Compatibility of Biodiesel with Petroleum Diesel Engines
Probably more a problem for truckers that drive many miles. Not so much for RVers that change their oil more often.
I know Mercedes Benz recommends keeping biodiesel to 5% or less when possible.

Don't know how accurate it is, but my local Sams Club diesel pump sticker says less than 5% biodiesel. This is south central texas.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #8 – September 07, 2019, 10:37:49 am

What next?

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #9 – September 07, 2019, 10:43:31 am

Quote from: Travelin' Man – September 07, 2019, 10:37:49 am

What next?

This shouldn't be an issue now that I have the fuel card, but I've always avoided stations that look like low volume. I don't want old diesel going into my tank.

Also a non-issue now is finding stations That I can clearly get in to and out of with the car attached.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #10 – September 07, 2019, 05:15:08 pm

If you end up in NAC give Keith Risch a call and get your fuel polished. It cleans everything out of the tank.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #11 – September 07, 2019, 11:05:13 pm

Quote from: Jeff & Sandy – September 07, 2019, 05:15:08 pm

If you end up in NAC give Keith Risch a call and get your fuel polished. It cleans everything out of the tank.

Good idea. Then no clogged filters from B20.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #12 – September 08, 2019, 08:51:29 am

Quote from: jcus – September 04, 2019, 08:00:04 pm

Compatibility of Biodiesel with Petroleum Diesel Engines
Probably more a problem for truckers that drive many miles. Not so much for RVers that change their oil more often.
I know Mercedes Benz recommends keeping biodiesel to 5% or less when possible.

Don't know how accurate it is, but my local Sams Club diesel pump sticker says less than 5% biodiesel. This is south central texas.

Thanks for the link.......... informative, I have always avoided biodiesel whenever possible. Don't see any advantages in using it anyway. May be OK for those of you that have engines and fuel systems designed to use it. Don't like ethanol in gasoline either, too many problems with carburetors and fuel lines in older small gasoline engines on the farm.

I agree with Tom, only use it it low quantities when there is no other choice.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #13 – September 08, 2019, 11:54:42 am

Quote from: Jeff & Sandy – September 07, 2019, 05:15:08 pm

If you end up in NAC give Keith Risch a call and get your fuel polished. It cleans everything out of the tank.

.

I've been thinking about this. It's probably not necessary.

It was some years back when I let the tank get too low. The generator quit, it was that low. Then I filled the tank with B20 solvent. After limping home, slowly climbing the Grapevine, I had the fuel filters changed. My mechanic said they were full of something. Not knowing what, I treated the fuel with Diesel Kleene and Bio Kleene.

That probably knocked any remaining crud loose and into the filters. Which explains why I still felt reduced power, and changed the filters again. Then all was good.

I think that experience likely left my fuel system well polished.

And since then, I doubt if I've been able to totally avoid biodiesel. I've read that even fuel labeled as pure #2 diesel contains between 2% and 5% biodiesel. And I'm sure some stations are not saying what they are pumping as "diesel".

This small amount of bio, along with yearly fuel filter changes, is probably keeping my fuel system clean. Maybe clean enough that a half tank filling with B20 won't send a bucketful of crud into my filters again.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #14 – September 08, 2019, 12:47:14 pm

Based on my experience you should be fine even with only B20 in your tank. It sounds as if your system is clean by now.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #15 – September 08, 2019, 03:34:37 pm

10-12 years ago when diesel prices went way up, I started buying B100 fuel from a local soydiesel plant which was cheaper AND made from a crop that I grow. I used it in my farm equipment, semi tractors, and Duramax pickup. No filter plugging issues other than the filters on my old steel bulk storage tanks. Everything ran great, I noticed no power difference, and the exhaust smelled pretty good too. After about 2 years, the price of soybeans went way up followed by B100 so I quit using it.
I would think that B20 should be fine, but I also understand not wanting problems on the road.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #16 – September 08, 2019, 07:34:30 pm

I use and prefer B20 whenever I can get it but most stations around us have B5. I have even used B100 with no ill effects. Less pollution is a big thing in the Sacramento Valley. Every little bit helps until California only sells electric vehicles.

Pierce

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #17 – September 08, 2019, 07:59:07 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – September 08, 2019, 07:34:30 pm

I use and prefer B20 whenever I can get it but most stations around us have B5. I have even used B100 with no ill effects. Less pollution is a big thing in the Sacramento Valley. Every little bit helps until California only sells electric vehicles.

Pierce

Yes all electric [as far as possible] will be a good thing for California. I am a nasty diesel diehard, but just bought a Model 3 for the wife, and I am totally impressed.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #18 – September 10, 2019, 12:53:58 pm

Navistar recommends the following :

Storage tanks should be thoroughly cleaned of residue and microbial growth before storing biodiesel fuel and tanks should be inspected periodically for cleanliness. Residue, water or microbial growth will compound in stored biodiesel fuel, causing increased fuel deposits that clog fuel filters prematurely. Adding biocides will reduce microbial growth during storage, but this is not a substitute for cleaning storage tanks.
Vehicle fuel tanks should be thoroughly cleaned and dried before using biodiesel blends.
Since biodiesel blends tend to dissolve deposits in fuel tanks and fuel lines, new fuel filters should be installed on used engines, before using biodiesel blends.
Install new fuel filter during every oil change (at half the normal service interval), when using biodiesel to improve water separation.
Because biodiesel has a higher boiling point, check oil level more frequently and shorten oil change interval when fuel dilution raises the oil level under the following conditions:
Use of aftertreatment systems
Biodiesel blends closer to B20
Low Load usage
For cold climate conditions, Navistar recommends that an appropriate fuel heater be installed.
Water separation from biodiesel fuel blends is more difficult than water separation from diesel fuel. Users should be careful to prevent water from accumulating in the fuel system. If possible, an additional fuel filter/water separator should be installed in the fuel system to remove water.
Biodiesel blends should be used within six months of the date of manufacture, because the oxidation stability of biodiesel is lower than diesel fuel.
If equipment fueled with biodiesel is to be stored for more than three months, the fuel system should be drained, cleaned, and dried.
Fuel system seals, used in 2006 and earlier engines may degrade prematurely. When replacing seals, Viton® seals or equivalent seals are recommended.
The following materials should be monitored if older engines operate with biodiesel: Natural rubber, butyl rubber, nitrile, copper, tin, and lead. These materials can degrade prematurely and cause deposits that clog fuel lines and filters.

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #19 – September 10, 2019, 05:40:19 pm

I use bio-diesel all the time in our U300 and 300SD. I've never done any of the above other than Stanadyne diesel fuel treatment and while I did install a new filter when we purchased the U300 going on 12 years ago, I've never replaced it but I check the primary sight plastic bowl. I do have a couple of spares. The 300SD gets the secondary changed ever few years. 450,000 miles without any work done on engine or tranny.

Pierce

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #20 – September 10, 2019, 08:07:56 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – September 10, 2019, 05:40:19 pm

while I did install a new filter when we purchased the U300 going on 12 years ago, I've never replaced it but I check the primary sight plastic bowl.
Pierce

Pierce! I must be reading this wrong........ 12 years on a fuel filter?
your pullin our chain

Re: Why did Tom change fuel filters (split from Re: New Diesel Fuel Discount Card Program)

Reply #21 – September 10, 2019, 10:34:02 pm

Quote from: FourTravelers – September 10, 2019, 08:07:56 pm

Pierce! I must be reading this wrong........ 12 years on a fuel filter?
your pull in our chain

Nope, it's the one I installed before heading home from Love Valley, NC. I do check the primary all the time and occasionally shine a light in our fuel tank but that's the filter installed at the time of purchase.

I used to import lots of Mercedes diesels back in the 1970's and early '80s. At that time, diesel fuel was terrible in the U.S. Olds and GM had introduced the notorious blowup diesel. Some of the refineries produced diesel that waxed at normal temperatures and dear GM didn't bother to put a drain on the fuel tanks so any contamination meant a new fuel tank. I installed a 2 micron Racor filter in all the cars and that took care of the algae and debris in the fuel. Even with apparently clean fuel, the 2 micron Racor would clog in just several thousand miles. Now, the fuel is much better, not to Euro standards but only occasionally will algae or water find it's way into our tanks. I changed the 300SD and other Mercedes secondary filters much more often as the tiny plastic primary would pass water into the secondary and after a year or so, the water would rust a hole in the bottom of the secondary filter.

As you probably have seen, I installed gauges on the intake side of the primary and the discharge side of the secondary and watch them pretty carefully.

All the quotes from Tom's post are from the legal department at Navistar and in a perfect world, it would be nice to do all of these things.

Pierce

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