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Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

We are looking at getting solar and are currently in the Quartzsite area so got a quote from Discount Solar.  We've heard great things about AM Solar but know they have a long waitlist and we didn't have plans to travel to Oregon anytime soon.

The parts section of the estimate looks similarish to AM Solar but the labor estimate is substantially different.  Discount has quoted approximately 20 hours for the install but AM's website has 25 hours listed for the most basic weekender trailer install and bigger installs jobs more similar to ours are listed at 75+ hours.

The parts we discussed with Discount include: GP-PV-190M (8 panels), LifeBlue LB1220-HCLT (3), Magnum Inverter MS2812, Magnum Controller PT-100, and a Magnum Remote ME-ARC.

How does a similar-sized install take 20 hours of labor at Discount vs 75+ hours at AM Solar?  What are we missing?



2003 U320 38' tag
2003 Green Jeep Wrangler

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #1 –
Quote from: coloradomtn –
We are looking at getting solar and are currently in the Quartzsite area so got a quote from Discount Solar.  We've heard great things about AM Solar but know they have a long waitlist and we didn't have plans to travel to Oregon anytime soon.

The parts section of the estimate looks similarish to AM Solar but the labor estimate is substantially different.  Discount has quoted approximately 20 hours for the install but AM's website has 25 hours listed for the most basic weekender trailer install and bigger installs jobs more similar to ours are listed at 75+ hours.

The parts we discussed with Discount include: GP-PV-190M (8 panels), LifeBlue LB1220-HCLT (3), Magnum Inverter MS2812, Magnum Controller PT-100, and a Magnum Remote ME-ARC.

How does a similar-sized install take 20 hours of labor at Discount vs 75+ hours at AM Solar?  What are we missing?

Quite a few on the forum have done a DIY job with great success. It's just not rocket science. Use the parts list and sources here on the forum and you can have a super sanitary 1300 watt installation using the best possible components for $1500 not including the batteries of your choice. It's less expensive today that a decade ago when I did ours. Sure a lot more fun than pulling a CC out of your wallet.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
Quite a few on the forum have done a DIY job with great success. It's just not rocket science. Use the parts list and sources here on the forum and you can have a super sanitary 1300 watt installation using the best possible components for $1500 not including the batteries of your choice. It's less expensive today that a decade ago when I did ours. Sure a lot more fun than pulling a CC out of your wallet.

Pierce


The labor cost from Discount Solar seems reasonable.  It's not a job we really want to do ourselves. 

Our question is more about the HUGE discrepancy in install time between the two stores.  Or more to the point, we just want to make sure discount solar isn't cutting corners or something.  I mean how can it take one place 25 hours and another ~75?

2003 U320 38' tag
2003 Green Jeep Wrangler

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #3 –
I cannot speak for AM Solar, or tell you how they arrive at the "labor time" guesstimate to which you refer.  We had a similar system installed there 4 years ago.  Before the work started I was quoted 42 hours labor time.  We arrived at their shop on a Monday morning, and they finished on the following Friday afternoon.  So that was 5 full days in the shop bay, with two guys working most of the time on the roof and another one inside and under the coach.  They were steady at it from 07:30am to 5:00pm.  That adds up to lots more than 42 man hours on my calculator, but they only charged me the quoted hours.  I was standing around watching the whole time, so I know there wasn't any goofing off going on.  Those guys work hard, but they also take the time to do it right.

I guess I'm saying I don't think AM Solar is going to "inflate" the labor quote just to make a few extra bucks.  They charge premium prices for what I (personally) think is first-class work.  Are their prices too high?  I don't know.  Was I (am I) totally satisfied with the job they did on our coach?  Absolutely.

Link to the thread covering our stay at AM Solar:  PV System, Installation, at AM Solar
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #4 –
Ditto to Chuck and Jeannie above.  I've heard many stories similar to theirs. I believe AM Solar gives an excellent value from mine and my customers experience.  AM Solar will only do it the correct way, and they double check their work as it is completed.  Over 15 years, I've only experienced good results from them and heard positive comments.  I like their proprietary 10 guage wire (two wires in one grey jacketed wire), junction boxes, and their after sale service.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #5 –
I agree with Pierce, if you are willing to have a go at a DIY project a solar install is one that many can do on their own.  Especially with some guidance and support from those of us on the Forum who have already done it.  I have helped another Forum member get their panels located and mounted. It is pretty simple. I am always willing to help someone with a project like this.  Help is the key word. 

If you can't do it yourself then learn as much as you can about the options for a solar system.  What kind of and size panels make sense? How much capacity and what type of batteries do you have?  How much power do you use?  What are your goals for a solar system?  How do you use your coach?  Will this change if you add solar?

I have seen some solar installs that were very crudely done.  Not very tidy, wires and cables not well secured, wires with crimp on connections wrapped with loose electrical tape.  Having a clean, organized, well planned installation complete with documentation has value.  You should understand clearly how it works.  Where are the on/off switches, where are the fuses?  I have seen installs with neither of these! Whatever gets done do it with safety as a design feature at the forefront.

I have no idea about either end of the spectrum your estimates represents.  Look at the work they do.  Do they stand behind the end product?  Maybe there is a middle ground somewhere.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #6 –
Coloradomtn - I have had no dealing with Discount Solar so I cannot provide any comments on their workmanship and service support.  I just spent 3.5 weeks at AM Solar having a big job done by them.  They do excellent work as others here have stated.  While I was there many RV owners came in to have their systems, installed by other vendors, fixed for they did not work correctly.  So in the end they said they would have been better off having gone to AM Solar in the first place.  AM Solar also offers excellent service support not only for those they install but also for those that buy their DIY systems from them.

Do some more homework and sleuthing and see if you can find any reviews on Discount Solar.  They may be great at what they do and can somehow complete a job of your magnitude within 20 hours with precision and have great service support afterwards if ever needed.

Good luck - you will love the freedom that a good solar and battery bank will provide you.
Oscar
Oscar & Janet Valent
2023 Coach House 261XLQD
Former 2004 U320 3820 PBBS
Former 2007 Newell Coach #815
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #7 –
I need to bring up something my guru buddy keeps mentioning when I ask him about a large panel installation.

Keep in mind I like and probably need a large system.

He talks about the higher than 24 volts systems safety. 

His comments concern a broken panel and water combined.

48 volts can be fatal according to his opinion.

He has replaced a lot of golf ball damaged panels and done fire damaged coaches.

He was/is concerned about a fireman on the roof and having them hurt from the higher voltage setup.

Is he overly concerned?  Is there a way to do the system safer?

He mentions the consumer/rv panels are nominally low 20's voltage.  for safety?

Can a broken higher voltage panel put out enough power to hurt someone?

Thoughts anyone? 

I have a pt100 I would like to use but it starts at 60 volts?



"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #8 –
Panels today are typically 36 or 48 volts. Using a series wiring, 150 volts or higher is possible. While lower voltages can kill, it's the intermediate voltages of 110 to 440 that are the most dangerous. They can cause the heart to fibrillate and unless a defibrillator is used, death will occur. Higher voltages will cause the heart to stop and CPR may allow it to start again.

I shocked myself pretty good during wiring behind the controller. I do have a master breaker for both the PV panels as well as the battery within easy reach next to the fridge.

You do make a good point as a firefighter on an aluminum ladder climbing on a wet roof could receive a shock and it could be the fall that might be the most dangerous.

Our panel arrangement consists of four 36 volt commercial panels wired in a series/parallel configuration with 72 volts the maximum going through the roof. Plenty to kill in a fairly short time if you could not get away from it.

Pierce


Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #9 –
Most home grid tie systems use panels in series up to 600 volts to one big inverter  or micro inverters which convert the lower dc voltage of one panel to 120 or 240 volts  AC. In most states this is legal to install on an asphalt tile roof, so pretty sure higher voltages are okay for an rv. In one string I run 120 volts. Sure it can shock you, but if you put your finger on a live connection inside your roof air, the same thing can happen. Just have to use common sense.
Microinverter: Enphase Inverter Technology | Enphase
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/2931740/sma/inverters/sma-sunny-boy-7.7-us-41-inverter
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #10 –
We have 39 panels on the roof of our home with an Enphase microinverter on each panel.  Each feeds 220v into the boxes that control connection to the house and to the grid and the monitoring equipment.  We can monitor each panel individually in real time. Cumulative data is stored somewhere in the cloud for daily production statistics. 

In this system and on our coach all panels are wired in parallel.  This makes shade on or a problem with one panel effect only that panel's contribution to total production.  Wiring in series makes sense in some applications but on your coach in a series wired setup shade on one panel will significantly reduce production for the entire string, much more than the loss of just one panel in a parallel configuration.  The argument about saving wire size and length might make a few bucks difference in the end but it is also offset by the cost of adding combiner box(es) on the roof and having to be on the roof to make or service those connections.

Lots of ways to do a solar install and lots of good reasons to pick series or parallel or a combination of both. One recent AM Solar installation with many panels is a good example of why one would choose to do some of both. 
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #11 –
Here is a good page to define the risk. As you can see, 42 volts is enough to kill in the right circumstance. But it's the amps that kill, not the voltage. This is unlikely to occur in an RV but also is the reason accidents are called accidents. One of our firefighters was electrocuted off duty and I've experienced a couple of close calls myself. How Many Volts or Amps Can Kill Humans?.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #12 –
I copied Roger and put all the panels in parallel. This morning the 3 panel circuit is out producing the 4 panel circuit due to the curve of the roof. Here at the race track the nose is facing south and the sun is low to the east. Later the 4 panels will get more direct sun and out power the 3. Produced 6 K yesterday with some cloud cover at times. Now I need better batteries to not have to run the generator at all except for air. The microwave during the day is using less than what is being produced.
My brother is parked next to me and is running the generator over 4 hours a day. We looked over his Monaco to see how hard a solar install would be,, and found two 8 gauge solar wires coming down his refrigerator flue. He is not a diy person and was wondering what cost 4 panels might be installed. I might check on some of the other companies like Discount Solar for him. I bought all my mounting hardware from AM Solar and controllers from Bay Marine Supply. To me his system would cost less than 2 CB's for materials.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
Here is a good page to define the risk. As you can see, 42 volts is enough to kill in the right circumstance. But it's the amps that kill, not the voltage. This is unlikely to occur in an RV but also is the reason accidents are called accidents. One of our firefighters was electrocuted off duty and I've experienced a couple of close calls myself. How Many Volts or Amps Can Kill Humans?.

Pierce
Pierce, your inbox is full and you can't be PM'd
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 –
I agree with Pierce, if you are willing to have a go at a DIY project a solar install is one that many can do on their own.  Especially with some guidance and support from those of us on the Forum who have already done it.  I have helped another Forum member get their panels located and mounted. It is pretty simple. I am always willing to help someone with a project like this.  Help is the key word. 

If you can't do it yourself then learn as much as you can about the options for a solar system.  What kind of and size panels make sense? How much capacity and what type of batteries do you have?  How much power do you use?  What are your goals for a solar system?  How do you use your coach?  Will this change if you add solar?

I have seen some solar installs that were very crudely done.  Not very tidy, wires and cables not well secured, wires with crimp on connections wrapped with loose electrical tape.  Having a clean, organized, well planned installation complete with documentation has value.  You should understand clearly how it works.  Where are the on/off switches, where are the fuses?  I have seen installs with neither of these! Whatever gets done do it with safety as a design feature at the forefront.

I have no idea about either end of the spectrum your estimates represents.  Look at the work they do.  Do they stand behind the end product?  Maybe there is a middle ground somewhere.

Thanks for the offer of help, we do really appreciate it!!  We've done our research on what our power needs are, but the timing is wrong for us to install it ourselves. 

The long and the short of it is, that Discount Solar is our only viable option right now.  They get great reviews and were good to deal with so far.  I was just concerned they might be taking a bunch of short cuts... or that there was a quick way and a right way to install solar.
2003 U320 38' tag
2003 Green Jeep Wrangler

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
I cannot speak for AM Solar, or tell you how they arrive at the "labor time" guesstimate to which you refer.  We had a similar system installed there 4 years ago.  Before the work started I was quoted 42 hours labor time.  We arrived at their shop on a Monday morning, and they finished on the following Friday afternoon.  So that was 5 full days in the shop bay, with two guys working most of the time on the roof and another one inside and under the coach.  They were steady at it from 07:30am to 5:00pm.  That adds up to lots more than 42 man hours on my calculator, but they only charged me the quoted hours.  I was standing around watching the whole time, so I know there wasn't any goofing off going on.  Those guys work hard, but they also take the time to do it right.

I guess I'm saying I don't think AM Solar is going to "inflate" the labor quote just to make a few extra bucks.  They charge premium prices for what I (personally) think is first-class work.  Are their prices too high?  I don't know.  Was I (am I) totally satisfied with the job they did on our coach?  Absolutely.

Link to the thread covering our stay at AM Solar:  PV System, Installation, at AM Solar

Thanks for the first hand info.  To be clear AM Solar haven't quoted us anything, we just arrived at the 75 hour number based on the generic info on their website.  So in no way are we saying they inflate their prices or labor times!!

Thanks also for the link to your install.  Going to check that out now.
2003 U320 38' tag
2003 Green Jeep Wrangler

Re: Discount Solar vs AM Solar install hours

Reply #16 –
Quote from: coloradomtn –
Thanks for the first hand info.  To be clear AM Solar haven't quoted us anything, we just arrived at the 75 hour number based on the generic info on their website.  So in no way are we saying they inflate their prices or labor times!!

Thanks also for the link to your install.  Going to check that out now.

I'm going to jump in and add one thing here: I've seen several installs from AM Solar that were not up to acceptable standards (ie, loose connections, poor crimps, jury-rigged busbars... and more) so, although I strongly suspect that these were the exceptions to the rule, please make sure to double-check all work done before you drive off the lot... if something doesn't look right, it probably isn't, and some of the mistakes I've seen come from them were potentially highly dangerous. At the very least, visually inspect every inch of that install and make sure it at least looks right.
I'm saying this as a distributor of this equipment... we don't do installs, and have zero interest in doing installs, so I'm not saying this as a competitor in any way, just as a tech who has seen a few pretty godawful things when the occasional customer brings by their rig for a system diagnosis.
Technical Support Manager and official poker of electronics at Laurel Technologies / Bay Marine Supply. Distribution and expert support of Victron Energy, Sterling Power, Blue Sea, Bussman, and Battle Born products.