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Topic: 1990 U280 fuel pump and bendix cruise control issues (Read 1974 times) previous topic - next topic

1990 U280 fuel pump and bendix cruise control issues

Took our 1990 U280 GV in for regular maintenance and to have a significant air leak diagnosed. In the course of the oil and filter changes Our maintenance technician diagnosed: 1. A leak in the fuel pump (Cat 3208T). He stated that this fuel pump is no longer manufactured, but the parts are so rebuilding it is the recommended option.
2. The major air leak was traced to a valve for the cruise control; he stated that this valve is no longer available. We can cap off the line and forego cruise control or have an aftermarket cruise control installed for around $800-900.
Have any of you experienced the same situation with either the fuel pump and/or the cruise control valve?  Thank you.
1990 36' U280 Grand Villa
Cat 3208T/Allison MT643


Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #2
Can you  post close up pics of both items? 
 David, are you implying that those items have history here?

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #3
Yes, a picture of both would be most helpful in us providing you with correct information.

Assume this is the Bendix air cruise control? I do have the manual if this is what you have.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #4
1. A leak in the fuel pump (Cat 3208T). He stated that this fuel pump is no longer manufactured, but the parts are so rebuilding it is the recommended option.

The internet is your friend in these situations, and your time is less expensive than their time.

Here's a (free) start:

Lift Pump | 3208 | 3208T | Caterpillar Parts
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #5
My 91 GV has the 3208T eng. and I've been told that there is no lift pump, only the injector pump which takes suction from the fuel tank.  This appears to be accurate since there is a negative pressure between the primary and secondary fuel filters.  That vacuum is about 3 inches at idle RPM.  Does this equate, or is some thing amiss here??  Thanks and have a great day.  ----  Fritz
Fritz & Kathy Johnson
1991 36'

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #6
My 91 GV has the 3208T eng. and I've been told that there is no lift pump, only the injector pump which takes suction from the fuel tank.  This appears to be accurate since there is a negative pressure between the primary and secondary fuel filters.  That vacuum is about 3 inches at idle RPM.  Does this equate, or is some thing amiss here??  Thanks and have a great day.  ----  Fritz
All diesels require a lift pump/supply pump/feed pump to get fuel to the main injector pump. On many injector pumps, especially Bosch, the lift pump is installed on the side of the injector pump. It sucks fuel from the tank, through the filters and then supplies the main injector pump. This type of pump is very reliable and may have the manual pump as part of it as in the attached photo.

In the photo below, the lift pump pulls from the fuel tank and then pushes the fuel through the small primary filter and then through the secondary filter and back down to the main injection pump inlet right above the black manual pump handle.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #7
1. A leak in the fuel pump (Cat 3208T)

Please clarify as to "in" or is he talking about the seal where the throttle shaft goes into the side of the pump?  If it is just the seal leaking as a lot of them do those are about $0.30 and a few min. to replace with out removing the injector pump. If something internal then yes they are rebuildable at a good injector/pump shop.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #8
If the 3208 has a lift pump, it is integral with the high pressure pump . My lines run from the tank to the pre filter, fine filter, and to the engine pump . 
Update , the lift pump  is a small gear rotor pump feeding the High pressure section. If it has one.  It may not have one as my Pump builder tells it. 

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #9
Thanks for the info/update, I'll hand over hand my specific installation and more closely determine what is there.  Have a great day -----  Fritz
Fritz & Kathy Johnson
1991 36'

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #10
My mechanic informs me that the source of the major air leak is the Bendix Cruise Control system, specifically a Bendix/Westinghouse valve #260717; originally, I was going to have a CruiseKing system installed. However, CruiseKing is now closed, according to their website, Semi Truck, Bus, RV, Service Vehicle Cruise Control Installation, and are no longer selling their systems.  So I started searching for the Bendix valve and, so far, have not been successful. I have left a message with FOT, emailed MOT, google searched, looked on ebay, Bendix website, and a negative reply from an RV salvage yard in Phoenix.  Do you have a suggestion for a source for either this valve or another cruise control system? For us, it is a 13-14 hr drive to Quartzsite and it sure would be nice to have a cruise control! Thanks!
1990 36' U280 Grand Villa
Cat 3208T/Allison MT643

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #11
I have the Bendix system on our '93 U280.  I have a couple documents saved in .pdf file, which are linked below.  They may be of some help, or at least interest, to you.  Looking quickly through them, I do not see any reference to a valve #260717.  It would be nice if you could post a photo of the valve in question.

I am also including a "marked up" copy of the cruise control system diagram, showing the parts added by Foretravel to integrate the air throttle with the cruise control.


1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #12
You can also find discussions pertaining to the Bendix system over at the Wanderlodge Owners Group.  Some Bluebird coaches use the same air cruise/air throttle setup.  There are smart people in that group, and lots of valuable experience dealing with old coaches.

First link below is to the home page of the forum.  Type "bendix cruise control" in the search box and see what pops up.

Second link is to the W.O.G. "download file directory".  You will find some Bendix stuff listed (alphabetically) there.

Wanderlodge Owners Group - Powered by vBulletin

www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com - /downloads/
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #13
Thank you for the information and the links.  I will take the diagram over to the mechanic and ask him to point out which valve is the problem and also take a pic. 
1990 36' U280 Grand Villa
Cat 3208T/Allison MT643

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #14
Finally able to make it over to the shop to get a picture of the Bendix Control Module for the Cruise Control.  The mechanic says that the big leak is where the brass fitting goes into the plastic housing - highlighted in blue.  He said that the plastic is very brittle and if he attempts to tighten it he is afraid it will crack.  His solution is to bypass the module by joining the two tubes highlighted in red.  I wonder if there is another way to try and stop the leak?  I usually like to do as much maintenance as I can, but where we store our coach makes it difficult. I did checkout the Wanderlodge sight and there are folks on that forum also looking for this part.  I've also checked out several other sites...MOT & FOT both say they don't have any parts or recommendations where to find one.

The fuel pump is out for a rebuild and should be back this Friday.  So, hopefully, we will be good for Quartzsite in mid-Jan.  Really appreciate all of your responses and sharing your knowledge!
1990 36' U280 Grand Villa
Cat 3208T/Allison MT643

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #15
The mechanic says that the big leak is where the brass fitting goes into the plastic housing - highlighted in blue.  He said that the plastic is very brittle and if he attempts to tighten it he is afraid it will crack.  His solution is to bypass the module by joining the two tubes highlighted in red.  I wonder if there is another way to try and stop the leak?
OK - now we can see the "root" of the problem.  And, of course, it is one of the "unobtainable" parts.  Murphy's Law in action.

I would not try to tighten the leaking fitting - it probably would crack the plastic.  I also don't believe simply connecting the two air lines together will work.  You must have some means of controlling the air flow into and out of those two air lines.  That is the function of the two solenoids.

Looking at the photo of that part (below) and the fact that it simply bolts to the electronic module makes me think there might be a solution.  I think that white plastic piece that connects the two air lines to the two solenoids MIGHT be a rather simple manifold.  Air comes in one end (controlled by the supply solenoid) and goes out the other end.  "Manifold" pressure is released (when necessary) by the exhaust solenoid.

If it was me, I would disconnect the air lines and wiring connectors and remove the whole solenoid assembly from the electronic module.  Then I would carefully take it apart and see what the white plastic piece looks like inside.

If it is very simple inside then a good machine shop might be able to reproduce the function of the plastic piece by milling a simple reproduction manifold out of a small block of billet aluminum.

If the plastic piece is too complicated inside to easily reproduce, then you could try to carefully reinstall the brass fittings in the ends with some good quality thread sealing paste and hopefully seal up the air leak.

You need to get creative to solve this problem, because the alternative is trashing the whole Bendix cruise system and installing something else.


1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #16
Looks like it's a simple manifold block, expect you can fabricate one with some PVC fittings, female adapters, drill bits and taps.  It may also be possible to find a prefabricated two port manifold, in aluminum most likely. 
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #17
Finally able to make it over to the shop to get a picture of the Bendix Control Module for the Cruise Control.  The mechanic says that the big leak is where the brass fitting goes into the plastic housing - highlighted in blue.  He said that the plastic is very brittle and if he attempts to tighten it he is afraid it will crack. 

If the part is unobtanium, I would personally try using 2 part epoxy JB weld around the leaking port(s). Might work, and if not no loss that I can see...
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #18
This brings to mind the corollary to the old rule about, "If it ain't broke don't fix it ". The corollary states, "If it is broke you can't hurt it".
Jan & Richard Witt
1999 U-320  36ft WTFE
Build Number: 5478 Motorcade: 16599
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited w/Air Force One
Jan: NO5U, Richard:KA5RIW
The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #19

Plast-aid is another product that might work on this. 
Amazon.com: 6 oz. Multi-Purpose Plastic Repair Kit: Health & Personal Care

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
Forest & Cindy Olivier
1987 log cabin
2011 Roadtrek C210P
no longer 1999 36' U320 build #5522
2013 Rzr 570 & 2018 Ranger XP1000
2006 Lexus GX470
2011 Tahoe LT 4x4
Previous 1998 45' 2 slide Newell, 1993 39' Newell

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #20
Very concerning that Cruise King closed shop.
A lot of mechanical Cummins out there with the King 2600 Throttle/Cruise System.
Had mine rebuilt by Cruise King several months ago after it failed after 22 years of service.
Not for sure what the future holds now for service on the King 2600.
Travel Save.
Charles
W5CRY
1997 Dynasty - Sold

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #21
Bad news about Cruise King..Don't have a clue where to begin looking for someone to fill that void.
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #22
Any interest in taking on the  king cruise service business?

I
I painted the plastic manifold junction today..

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #23
Thank you for all the suggestions; once I get it back I will try out some of your solutions. 
1990 36' U280 Grand Villa
Cat 3208T/Allison MT643

Re: Maintenance questions

Reply #24
Finally able to make it over to the shop to get a picture of the Bendix Control Module for the Cruise Control.  The mechanic says that the big leak is where the brass fitting goes into the plastic housing - highlighted in blue.  He said that the plastic is very brittle and if he attempts to tighten it he is afraid it will crack.  His solution is to bypass the module by joining the two tubes highlighted in red.  I wonder if there is another way to try and stop the leak?  I usually like to do as much maintenance as I can, but where we store our coach makes it difficult. I did checkout the Wanderlodge sight and there are folks on that forum also looking for this part.  I've also checked out several other sites...MOT & FOT both say they don't have any parts or recommendations where to find one.

The fuel pump is out for a rebuild and should be back this Friday.  So, hopefully, we will be good for Quartzsite in mid-Jan.  Really appreciate all of your responses and sharing your knowledge!

I looked at your photograph and the copy of the page from the Bendix manual and I think that your valve can be replaced with a standard industrial valve.

To go any further I'd need to know more about the operation of your valve, mine is working fine and I'm not touching mine.

But, Festo USA used to be my go to company, and I suggest starting with a 5/3 valve Festo MFH-5/3 as a possible solution.  Talking with a sales engineer will probably solve your problem if you can describe the operation of your valve.

https://www.festo.com/media/pim/213/D15000100123213.PDF

PS If that cruise control valve works the way I think it does, you'll need to cap off those lines, not connect them together.

1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.