fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

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fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

December 04, 2019, 09:06:03 am

hiya all, anyone know about a wiring problem I have , last year when I changed my engine , I made a stupid mistake and connected alternator wiring wrong way round , I obviously blew a fuse or a circuit somewhere, I thought id blown the 80 amp circuit breaker on my 1990 granvilla , with the help of nitehawk he managed to find out where this was situated and I have now found it but it doesn't appear to have blown , there is power going into it and also coming out of it , so that seems to be working ok, normally when I turn the ignition on I can hear the fuel shut of solenoid click on to fuel position, but not since , I have no ignition lights showing on the dash and nothing else seems to work IE hot cold air blowers , what I'm doing at the moment is wiring a direct live feed into the plug that goes to fuel solenoid , and once that is connected , the ign lights all come on and the heater blowers work, battery voltage meter works etc etc , but I shouldn't have to do that , but I just cant work out what has blown , I've gone through every fuse under the dash board and they all check out fine no problem, I cant find any other fuses around the engine area either , I'm convinced there is a hidden fuse somewhere , but where , dose anyone know of any other fuse panels, I've found one other at the end of bed, but that is all to do with coach system and the one next to it has got circuit breakers to do with external plug in , if I cant find it , I'm just gone a run a new fused wire directly from ign switch to the fuel solenoid, but would prefer it if I can solve the problem rather than by pass it , appreciate any help thanks kev

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #1 – December 04, 2019, 09:17:57 am

Kev,
Look for and test the IGNITION SOLENOID. Have not worked on a 1990, but know on the 1993 the ignition switch "turned on"/closed the ignition solenoid which powered all those things that work with the ignition on. On the 1993 it is under the driver's side of the dash (raise the dash).

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #2 – December 04, 2019, 09:52:11 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 04, 2019, 09:17:57 am

Kev,
Look for and test the IGNITION SOLENOID. Have not worked on a 1990, but know on the 1993 the ignition switch "turned on"/closed the ignition solenoid which powered all those things that work with the ignition on. On the 1993 it is under th
Quote from: wolfe10 – December 04, 2019, 09:17:57 am
Kev,
Look for and test the IGNITION SOLENOID. Have not worked on a 1990, but know on the 1993 the ignition switch "turned on"/closed the ignition solenoid which powered all those things that work with the ignition on. On the 1993 it is under the driver's side of the dash (raise the dash).
what would an ignition solenoid look like please would it be like in a box with a fuse inside or something?

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #3 – December 04, 2019, 09:52:42 am

Quote from: kevo0000 – December 04, 2019, 09:52:11 am

what would an ignition solenoid look like please would it be like in a box with a fuse inside or something?

im sure its something simple

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #4 – December 04, 2019, 10:15:50 am

On our 1993, it's under the flip up dash top right by the steering column. There is a ground close by so you can use a test light/meter on it. One large connection will be hot. Either one of the small terminals goes to ground, the other to the ignition switch. When the key is turned to the on position, juice will go into one of the small terminals and trigger the solenoid so power flows from one large terminal through the solenoid to the other large terminal powering all the dash warning lights, etc. The solenoid is the same part number as the boost solenoid. Photo attached.

Pierce

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #5 – December 04, 2019, 10:56:36 am

If you need advice on testing it, let us know.

Some times just a light, sharp rap (like with plastic handle of screwdriver) can temporarily free it up.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #6 – December 04, 2019, 12:25:47 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – December 04, 2019, 10:15:50 am

On our 1993, it's under the flip up dash top right by the steering column. There is a ground close by so you can use a test light/meter on it. One large connection will be hot. Either one of the small terminals goes to ground, the other to the ignition switch. When the key is turned to the on position, juice will go into one of the small terminals and trigger the solenoid so power flows from one large terminal through the solenoid to the other large terminal powering all the dash warning lights, etc. The solenoid is the same part number as the boost solenoid. Photo attached.

Pierce

Ok thanks for that , would that possibly have blown when I connected alternator terminals wrong way round , and is that on same circuit as fuel shutdown solenoid and heater blowers also?

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #7 – December 04, 2019, 12:47:46 pm

Yes .

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #8 – December 04, 2019, 01:10:21 pm

Quote from: Protech Racing – December 04, 2019, 12:47:46 pm

Yes .

cheers all thanks il try that tomorrow

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #9 – December 04, 2019, 01:13:05 pm

If you find it, you can jump across the 2 big terminals and if everything works that is the issue.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #10 – December 04, 2019, 01:19:30 pm

Quote from: craneman – December 04, 2019, 01:13:05 pm

If you find it, you can jump across the 2 big terminals and if everything works that is the issue.

yeah that's a good idea, il try that, is there an internal fuse that could be blown or once they go do they need replacing, if cant be fixed by tapping gently?

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #11 – December 04, 2019, 01:30:31 pm

No fuse, tapping sometimes loosens the plunger if it is stuck. If the wire melted inside percussion won't work. If percussion works replace anyway it is cheap.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #12 – December 05, 2019, 08:59:02 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – December 04, 2019, 10:15:50 am

On our 1993, it's under the flip up dash top right by the steering column. There is a ground close by so you can use a test light/meter on it. One large connection will be hot. Either one of the small terminals goes to ground, the other to the ignition switch. When the key is turned to the on position, juice will go into one of the small terminals and trigger the solenoid so power flows from one large terminal through the solenoid to the other large terminal powering all the dash warning lights, etc. The solenoid is the same part number as the boost solenoid. Photo attached.

Pierce

, hya , I've been up there today , with voltage tester , I'm however still a bit confused , I've managed to jump a wire from the big black terminal on the left, to the small red terminal in front I heard a click when I connected it , and the dash lights came on , the heater blower was working , however , the power supply in the engine compartment that connects to fuel solenoid is still not there , also if you notice in the pic that I've posted , it's quite strange but the black wires are hot and the red connections seem to go to ground , it's most strange because red is usually live , and black is normally for ground, and even without the ignition on , I have the black wires are permanently live , but at least I've had some partial success, I've also found the other identical part situated next to the 80 amp circuit breaker in engine fire wall driver side near top of gearbox , so would it be possible if that also was faulty , I'm thinking of ordering two anyway , just in case , the other solenoid you told me yesterday was for the boost , boost for what thankyou

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #13 – December 05, 2019, 09:39:31 am

(This post basically repeats what Pierce said in Reply #4 above, so no offense is meant to him and his helpful post)

To properly test the ignition solenoid function, do not jump from small terminal (in front) to either of the big terminals because this will bypass the ignition switch connection.

To test the whole circuit, first remove any temporary jumper wires from the ignition solenoid.

With ignition switch OFF, only one terminal on the solenoid should be hot. This hot terminal should be one of the large posts (regardless of color of wires). This terminal is always HOT (supplied power from one of the batteries).

With the ignition switch ON, the small terminal in front should be hot, and BOTH big terminals should be hot.

Ignition switch ON: all 3 terminals should read battery voltage.

If this is not the case, then the solenoid is bad and should be replaced.

If the solenoid is bad, you can bypass it with a suitably sized jumper wire. Hook the jumper wire from one BIG terminal to the other BIG terminal. With this jumper in place, you should have power to all circuits downstream from the ignition solenoid. If the fuel shutoff solenoid (in the engine compartment) still does not have power, then the problem is downstream of the ignition solenoid.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #14 – December 05, 2019, 10:37:36 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – December 05, 2019, 09:39:31 am

To properly test the ignition solenoid function, do not jump from small terminal (in front) to either of the big terminals because this will bypass the ignition switch connection.

To test the whole circuit, first remove any temporary jumper wires from the ignition solenoid.

With ignition switch OFF, only one terminal on the solenoid should be hot. This hot terminal should be one of the large posts (regardless of color of wires). This terminal is always HOT (supplied power from one of the batteries).

With the ignition switch ON, the small terminal in front should be hot, and BOTH big terminals should be hot.

Ignition switch ON: all 3 terminals should read battery voltage.

If this is not the case, then the solenoid is bad and should be replaced.

If the solenoid is bad, you can bypass it with a suitably sized jumper wire. Hook the jumper wire from one BIG terminal to the other Big terminal. With this jumper in place, you should have power to all circuits downstream from the ignition solenoid. If the fuel shutoff solenoid (in the engine compartment) does not have power, then the problem is downstream of the ignition solenoid.

Ok thanks for that info , I will go up there again in the morning , and check what you said in that specific order, and let you know how I get on , I did notice that my ignition solenoid has only 3 connections to it , compared to the pic that was kindly sent , so obviously mine being a 1990 , they must have used a different type , the other one I have that I found in firewall of engine bay does look the same as the one in picture I sent , someone mentioned yesterday that the other is for the boost , but what boost , would that be for the hydraulic brake booster pump or something like that ? Thanks kev

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #15 – December 05, 2019, 10:47:36 am

Solenoids with one small terminal use the metal body of the solenoid for ground.

Those with two small terminals-- one is hot, the other is ground.

Either can be used. If replacing a two terminal with a one terminal solenoid, all you do is run a ground wire from the metal body of the solenoid to good chassis ground.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #16 – December 05, 2019, 10:51:47 am

Quote from: kevo0000 – December 05, 2019, 10:37:36 am

...someone mentioned yesterday that the other is for the boost , but what boost , would that be for the hydraulic brake booster pump or something like that ?

The other electric solenoid that you have located in your engine compartment is the BOOST solenoid. This solenoid is activated when you turn the BOOST switch on your dash to the ON position. With the BOOST switch on (there should be a little red light inside the switch when it is on) the BOOST solenoid closes and both battery banks (house batteries and start batteries) are connected together. This is helpful when starting the big engine if your start batteries are weak.

You can use the search function on the Forum to read many threads pertaining to the BOOST solenoid (how and when to use it).

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #17 – December 05, 2019, 12:12:29 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – December 05, 2019, 10:51:47 am

The other electric solenoid that you have located in your engine compartment is the BOOST solenoid. This solenoid is activated when you turn the BOOST switch on your dash to the ON position. With the BOOST switch on (there should be a little red light inside the switch when it is on) the BOOST solenoid closes and both battery banks (house batteries and start ,batteries) are connected together. This is helpful when starting the big engine if your start batteries are weak.

You can use the search function on the Forum to read many threads pertaining to both the Bendix cruise system and the BOOST solenoid (how and when to use it).

Ah of course, yeah the battery boost switch , yes , that's working ok , I happened to push that switch earlier and yes the red light came on , so at least I know that ones ok , I think IL take the terminals off and clean them anyway and grease them , yeah thanks for that , , IL let you know how I get on tommorrow with the checks , on the ign , thanks very mutch. kev

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #18 – December 05, 2019, 07:02:42 pm

Just a point of clarification: The fact that the boost/combine switch light came on does NOT tell you whether the boost solenoid and wring to it are working.

Best way to check:

Check voltage at the two battery banks. If not different, do something to change that (like disconnect from shore power and run some 12 VDC stuff to lower house bank voltage).

Hit the boost/combine switch. Check voltage at the two battery banks. It should be exactly the same, indicating that the battery banks are combined through the boost solenoid.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #19 – December 06, 2019, 10:04:47 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – December 05, 2019, 09:39:31 am

(This post basically repeats what Pierce said in Reply #4 above, so no offense is meant to him and his helpful post)

To properly test the ignition solenoid function, do not jump from small terminal (in front) to either of the big terminals because this will bypass the ignition switch connection.

To test the whole circuit, first remove any temporary jumper wires from the ignition solenoid.

With ignition switch OFF, only one terminal on the solenoid should be hot. This hot terminal should be one of the large posts (regardless of color of wires). This terminal is always HOT (supplied power from one of the batteries).

With the ignition switch ON, the small terminal in front should be hot, and BOTH big terminals should be hot.

Ignition switch ON: all 3 terminals should read battery voltage.

If this is not the case, then the solenoid is bad and should be replaced.

If the solenoid is bad, you can bypass it with a suitably sized jumper wire. Hook the jumper wire from one BIG terminal to the other BIG terminal. With this jumper in place, you should have power to all circuits downstream from the ignition solenoid. If the fuel shutoff solenoid (in the engine compartment) still does not have power, then the problem is downstream of the ignition solenoid.

Hya all ,just come back from motorhome , I've done exactly what you all advised me to do , first with ign switch off , I just had power direct from battery , going to one of the big terminals , the other big terminal and the small terminal was no power , which is as you all said , next I turned on igntion and still had no power in the small terminal which comes from ign switch , so that now is telling me, correct me if I'm wrong that when the ign switch is on and there is no power then the problem could be in the switch itself unless there is a fuse that I cannot see that has blown , next test I did was I jumped the two big terminals together as advised , and dash lights wipers etc ,all started to work . Next step I did was I connected a seperate live feed to the small terminal and straight away I heard the ignition solenoid click and there was power to all of the above I mentioned , so now I'm confinced that the solenoid is working ok, the next step I'm going to do tommorrow is remove the ignition switch and see if there is a hidden fuse that is in-between the switch and small connection on solenoid , , is this correct thing to do , the only other thing I can do which sometimes I've had to do in past , is to fit a new wire with inline fuse ,a seperate switch under dash direct to fuel shut down solenoid from a seperate permanent hot wire , but that is if all else fails , I know that will work as I've been running a seperate live feed from alternater direct to fuel solenoid ,for past 12 months to start engine with no problems , but would rather find the fault if I can , I know it's something simple and is probably staring me in the face , but that's wiring for ya can be a bit of a headache sometimes , any more suggestions would be mutch appreciated thanks kev

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #20 – December 06, 2019, 11:20:07 am

Quote from: kevo0000 – December 06, 2019, 10:04:47 am

so that now is telling me, correct me if I'm wrong that when the ign switch is on and there is no power then the problem could be in the switch itself unless there is a fuse that I cannot see that has blown

Many others did the teacher's work, so let me say,

Congratulations! You done good.

Now you need to source a new switch. You should see the big honking monster of a universal ignition switch I have in my tiny Italian Siata.

82-2150 - Ignition Starter Switch, Various

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #21 – December 06, 2019, 11:29:42 am

The wire from the ignition switch to the ignition solenoid typically does not include a fuse. It is always possible that one could have been added, of course.

You could have a bad ignition switch or just a loose wire connection.

From the appearance of your old ignition solenoid it would be a good idea to go ahead and replace it with a fresh unit. Keep the old one for a spare.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #22 – December 06, 2019, 12:00:33 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – December 06, 2019, 11:29:42 am

The wire from the ignition switch to the ignition solenoid typically does not include a fuse. It is always possible that one could have been added, of course.

You could have a bad ignition switch or just a loose wire connection.

From the appearance of your old ignition solenoid it would be a good idea to go ahead and replace it with a fresh unit. Keep the old one for a spare.

Yeah that's a good idea , have been on line and found them , easily available and not too expensive to fix , , I think the next step gonna be check the switch , and see if any power is coming from it when turned on , if there is then IL just run a new wire from it to the solenoid small terminal , I'm still confinced though that some fuse or breaker has blown somewhere because I never had a problem until I connected alternator wires wrong way round , I've checked the wiring diagrams over and over , I'm not that good at understanding them but I am learning , thanks for your help anyway , it's not a major issue , but it is a little bit annoying cause I'm sure it is something very simple ha ha
Kev

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #23 – December 06, 2019, 04:16:55 pm

Make sure the relacement solenoid you purchase is rated for continuous duty. The ignition solenoid is powered (closed) all the time the coach is running. You don't want a wimpy cheap knockoff solenoid, because if it fails you are dead in the water. Also a good reason to carry a spare.

The solenoid #24213 referenced by Pierce in his earlier post is a excellent replacement solenoid. It is continuous duty and has a high working amp rating. Also works great as a "boost" solenoid. Shop around for the best price on your side of the pond.

https://www.littelfuse.com/products/dc-solenoids-and-relays/standard-high-current-relays/continuous-duty-spst/24213.aspx

Amazon.com: Cole Hersee 24213 Hose: Automotive

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: fuel shut of solenoid wiring problem since making a wrong alternator connection

Reply #24 – December 06, 2019, 10:23:50 pm

Some coaches had a wire with a fusible link which might have been damaged by reverse polarity. You can check if there is power into the ignition switch. I think that your coach may have a Chevrolet fuse panel that would supply power to the switch. One may be labeled ignition.

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