house batteries not charging

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house batteries not charging

December 07, 2019, 06:12:09 pm

We had the RV plugged in for the winter with only a an extension cord. This was plugged into a GFI which has tripped and now the house batteries are completely dead. We plugged it into a 50 AMP source and the batteries don't seem to be charging. The charging light turns on for a few minutes but then goes out. There is burnt smell in the electrical bay with the inverter. I don't see any obvious signs of something fired. Can I charge the house batteries with a regular car charger? How can I tell if the inverter/charger is bad? Seems like if it was bad the charge light would not turn on at all. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #1 – December 07, 2019, 06:27:09 pm

Sounds like the batteries decayed to a dead short...usually the case if left discharged and they will freeze internally. No charger can cope with that and that's probably the smell in your bay. Hopefully the charger/inverter is okay...what brand/model charger is it? Yes you can put a car charger on the batteries...it won't hurt as long as you get the polarity right and hook up leads to the final leads on the bank. If they won't take any charge, they are toast and you're looking at a new set of batteries. How old are they? Once you replace the batteries, you can see if the onboard charger still works, and in the meantime you can disconnect the negative lead off the house batteries, and run a jumper cable to a known good battery from the house cables to test the house charger. Woody

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #2 – December 07, 2019, 06:32:09 pm

After verifying that batteries don't have a dead short and that wiring is OK, then yes you can (actually have to) start the charging process with another (stupid) charger.

Smart inverter/chargers are programmed to NOT try to charged totally dead batteries to keep something like a dead short or shorted wiring from causing a fire.

Once batteries are up to 12.0 or so, the inverter/charger will take over.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #3 – December 07, 2019, 07:09:56 pm

Quote from: Go Pack Go – December 07, 2019, 06:12:09 pm

Can I charge the house batteries with a regular car charger?

Yes, but you'll need a "dumb" charger and patience. With a completely flat battery, your electrolyte is mostly water, slowly but surely the sulphuric acid will reform as the battery accepts the charge. It will take a couple of days.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #4 – December 07, 2019, 08:13:18 pm

Quote from: Pyolet – December 07, 2019, 06:27:09 pm

Sounds like the batteries decayed to a dead short...usually the case if left discharged and they will freeze internally. No charger can cope with that and that's probably the smell in your bay. Hopefully the charger/inverter is okay...what brand/model charger is it? Yes you can put a car charger on the batteries...it won't hurt as long as you get the polarity right and hook up leads to the final leads on the bank. If they won't take any charge, they are toast and you're looking at a new set of batteries. How old are they? Once you replace the batteries, you can see if the onboard charger still works, and in the meantime you can disconnect the negative lead off the house batteries, and run a jumper cable to a known good battery from the house cables to test the house charger. Woody

It is a Prosine PS 2.5

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #5 – December 07, 2019, 08:18:13 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 07, 2019, 06:32:09 pm

After verifying that batteries don't have a dead short and that wiring is OK, then yes you can (actually have to) start the charging process with another (stupid) charger.

Smart inverter/chargers are programmed to NOT try to charged totally dead batteries to keep something like a dead short or shorted wiring from causing a fire.

Once batteries are up to 12.0 or so, the inverter/charger will take over.

So once I check out the batteries is the best way to charge them by hooking the positive side of the charger to the far side of the battery fuse and the negative to the chassis ground? That way the fuse is inline with the charging current in case of a problem or would it be better to try and reach the batteries directly?

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #6 – December 07, 2019, 08:26:05 pm

Batteries normally are not recoverable after long term total discharge

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #7 – December 07, 2019, 08:42:38 pm

John,

I prefer directly on the battery post.

Mike

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #8 – December 07, 2019, 08:42:43 pm

Quote from: Go Pack Go – December 07, 2019, 08:13:18 pm

It is a Prosine PS 2.5

I would look into taking that out.. mine popped when we were out of town.. luckily it was a few miles from home..its old and it will fail.. cant be fixed so start planning now.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #9 – December 07, 2019, 08:55:56 pm

Quote from: DavidS – December 07, 2019, 08:42:43 pm

I would look into taking that out.. mine popped when we were out of town.. luckily it was a few miles from home..its old and it will fail.. cant be fixed so start planning now.

thanks I have the book so I guess as long as I spec out a new one the same I should be ok. What did you get?

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #10 – December 07, 2019, 08:59:23 pm

Quote from: Go Pack Go – December 07, 2019, 08:55:56 pm

thanks I have the book so I guess as long as I spec out a new one the same I should be ok. What did you get?

Do consider Alan at Bay Marine Chargers, inverters, and refrigerators

Victron hybrid or Magnum hybrid would be my personal preference. I believe we have forum members who have used both. (Victron has a really nice interface and is used by high-end Prevost converters)

ETA for new folks - the forum receives no consideration from any of the commercial members; this is simply a board we offer those who wish to offer forum discounts and post helpful info.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #11 – December 07, 2019, 09:07:19 pm

I would first measure the voltage of the batteries, which can be done at the Prosine terminals. If not a dead short, you can try resetting the Prosine by disconnecting the batteries and reconnecting. You might get lucky. See what happens to the voltage.

One time (like 11 years ago), someone tripped over the short power cable, disconnecting it, while the inverter was on. After a week I found the batteries were too low for the inverter or charger to work. Disconnecting and reconnecting battery to the Prosine gave it enough of a reset to start charging.

If the batteries are dead, you should plan on gaining access. They should be visually inspected before charging and watched while charging. You might need to remove the Joey bed to access the panel, unless you lucky and the precious owner cut an access hatch. You should completely disconnect the batteries and measure each one separately. You might have only one with a dead short or a shorted cell. I would also prefer to use an automotive charger with the batteries disconnected as I don't trust it to keep voltages in safe bounds.

Just removing the bad battery or batteries and leaving the good one or two might be enough for the Prosine (after reset) to start charging.

After the batteries are charged, reconnect and see what the Prosine does.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #12 – December 07, 2019, 09:15:24 pm

As Tom Lang talked about above, I've seen many inverter/chargers saved by totally removing the battery cables from the unit for 20 minutes to reset it and then it would work.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #13 – December 07, 2019, 09:35:20 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – December 07, 2019, 09:07:19 pm

I would first measure the voltage of the batteries, which can be done at the Prosine terminals. If not a dead short, you can try resetting the Prosine by disconnecting the batteries and reconnecting. You might get lucky. See what happens to the voltage.

One time (like 11 years ago), someone tripped over the short power cable, disconnecting it, while the inverter was on. After a week I found the batteries were too low for the inverter or charger to work. Disconnecting and reconnecting battery to the Prosine gave it enough of a reset to start charging.

If the batteries are dead, you should plan on gaining access. They should be visually inspected before charging and watched while charging. You might need to remove the Joey bed to access the panel, unless you lucky and the precious owner cut an access hatch. You should completely disconnect the batteries and measure each one separately. You might have only one with a dead short or a shorted cell. I would also prefer to use an automotive charger with the batteries disconnected as I don't trust it to keep voltages in safe bounds.

Just removing the bad battery or batteries and leaving the good one or two might be enough for the Prosine (after reset) to start charging.

After the batteries are charged, reconnect and see what the Prosine does.

Wow I would have never though about that thanks I will do that in the AM. Is there anything I have to do to the inverter or should I just pop the charger fuse to turn it off. I can get to the batteries I looked at them this afternoon but I have not tried to remove them. I am pretty sure I can get to the terminals to check for shorts.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #14 – December 08, 2019, 02:40:28 am

Quote from: Go Pack Go – December 07, 2019, 08:55:56 pm

thanks I have the book so I guess as long as I spec out a new one the same I should be ok. What did you get?

Went Victron everything and very happy.. Allan at Bay Marine Supply is very helpful..

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #15 – December 08, 2019, 07:02:12 am

Replace the batteries. They are now permanently damaged and are hydrogen-generating bombs. I'm just keeping it real.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #16 – December 10, 2019, 06:45:51 pm

Just as a follow up I put the batteries on the charger at 2 Amps with 90 mins they were back up to 10 VDC from .13. I left them on the 2 Amp charge for about 48 hours and then hooked them back up to the inverter. The inverter would not come on (no fan no nothing) Since I had left the AC power applied through all this, I turned off the AC power and disconnected the batteries for 20 mins as is suggested by the fault code and other members of this forum. After the 20 mins was up I reconnected the batteries and turned on the AC power. Inverter has the charge light, voltage is 11.5 (which what our charger puts out on the 2 Amp setting). Left it overnight and it appeared to be doing fine this morning before I left work. Don't know if they will hold a full charge or how long they will last but for now I am very happy with the process. Thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions. We will be looking into having the batteries tested sometime this summer but for now at least I am not out in the garage in 19 degree weather trying to get those heavy things out.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #17 – December 10, 2019, 07:02:06 pm

Yay!!! Good work.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #18 – December 10, 2019, 07:22:24 pm

John if you batteries are not gels a desulfurization device attached to the batteries over time might help restore them?

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #19 – December 10, 2019, 07:31:49 pm

Check this page for a 12V repair/pulse charger. There is a chance the batteries will recover. Unless charged, batteries will freeze and be ruined. Charged batteries won't freeze even if buried in the snow. Amazon.com: Automatic Smart Battery Charger/Maintainer 12V/8A 24V/4A Pulse...

Pierce

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #20 – December 10, 2019, 07:54:25 pm

Quote from: Go Pack Go – December 10, 2019, 06:45:51 pm

We will be looking into having the batteries tested sometime this summer but for now at least I am not out in the garage in 19 degree weather trying to get those heavy things out.

IF you want to test your batteries. Remove the charger and after 1 hour, preferably 3 measure the resting voltage. Come back 24 hours later and measure the resting voltage again. No change? Then you're good to go and restart your inverter-charger. Yes, allowing the batteries to become fully discharged causes them to lose capacity, but it's been my experience that "modern" batteries short internally before they lose enough capacity to be a problem.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #21 – December 13, 2019, 10:27:41 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – December 10, 2019, 07:22:24 pm

John if you batteries are not gels a desulfurization device attached to the batteries over time might help restore them?

Actually it's Holly. John drives truck so he has been gone while I have been working on this. The batteries are Lifeline GPL-8Ds I think they are AGM and from reading the Knowledge Center I believe that means they are not Gel. Bad news is they appear to losing the charge. The batteries were down into the yellow on the meter this morning. I think I will try toolmakers suggestion and charge them back up and then disconnect them and let them float for a day to see if they are bad. If they are good I will be ordering the inverter. I have been trying to avoid crawling into the storage bay to isolate them but I guess there is no way around it. I am going to try to call Bay Marine today to see if they have any suggestions for checking to see if the inverter is really charging. We may just replace it because of age anyway. I do have a question for everyone. If I run the generator to charge them does it use the inverter charger or does it come straight from the generator? In other words does it cut the inverter charger out of the picture? I need to exercise the generator anyway and thought I could kill to birds with one stone.

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #22 – December 13, 2019, 10:37:46 am

Quote from: Go Pack Go – December 13, 2019, 10:27:41 am

If I run the generator to charge them does it use the inverter charger or does it come straight from the generator?

Holly,

Your coach should use the generator output to run the inverter/converter and it (inverter/converter) charges the coach batteries.

Mike

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #23 – December 13, 2019, 10:38:56 am

I have the same Lifeline batteries that you mention Holly and have had a de sulphater on each of them for at least 6 yrs or more. Mine seem to be in good shape but have not tested them individually yet as not had a load tester. I was given one a day ago by friend here in Mexico and it is in good shape so hope it does what it is supposed to do. It is a cheap Chicago Electric one or Harbour Freight, and would love a carbon pile type but will give it a shot some time. My batteries were installed in March 2011 so are close to 9 yrs old and are charged by solar panels 100% of time.
I have been very happy with them.
You can equalise these with a charge of 15 volts and I have done that about 5 times in their life, but have the desulphaters working 24/7 and feel they are the reason for long life.
JohnH

Re: house batteries not charging

Reply #24 – December 13, 2019, 10:50:49 am

Using the generator to run the inverter is not necessary if you have the coach plugged in. Let the inverter charge the batteries into float before letting them sit to test them.

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