Bulkheads

Topic: Bulkheads (Read 1806 times) previous topic - next topic

Bulkheads

December 18, 2019, 01:51:28 pm

Bulkheads I am trying to understand the procedure To put bigger bolts in The front and back of the bulkhead I can see the heads of the bolts going through the angle iron but where is the nuts do you have to cut the fibreglass underbelly or try to disassemble the inside of the compartment I am try to find pictures of this operation or fix there are 17 bolts going across this crossmember what is the procedure to please a nut and washer on the other side it seems like a big job to remove the big fibreglass underbelly and I see that there is insulation above the underbelly is there a step-by-step procedure anywhere that I can follow

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #1 – December 18, 2019, 01:57:26 pm

If only a couple Rolocks need to be replaced with through bolts, easiest to find a waterproof plug (see my write up on Bulkheads) and drill from underneath through the fiberglass. That gives you access to the "back side" of the Rolock. Double nut it and remove the Rolock. Use OE hole and drill it out oversized to accommodate the new bolt.

But, if many are broken, yes, you will need to cut out all the way across the coach to open that area.

And, if many are broken, very high likelihood that the box beams have lost their structural integrity (rust jacking is what broke the bolts and can very easily compromise the box beam.

SO, how many broken bolts do you have? How much rust jacking-- separation of the bulkhead? Protrusion due to rust jacking of the box beams under the wet bay (compare with how "proud" they are compared with further toward center of coach).

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #2 – December 18, 2019, 02:09:57 pm

I don't have any broken bolts yet that I see but I do have rust Jack I have grind all around the bolts and and angle iron from one end to the other and I've tried to put a screwdriver where the rust jack is to dig out all rust particles that I could now I am attempting to re-torque at 250 inch pounds butPresume that I will break some bolts I'm trying to do as much research on this before tackling the situation far as the rest of the underneath everything looks to be in very good shape and I am debating if I should just leave left alone but there is rust Jack where it is separating And on the right hand side under the water pump compartment where you can drain the lines to winterize I See a piece of plywood above 10 x 10 that seems to be rotten out I believe it is a Peace just to screw down the water pump and air tank to hold it in place everywhere else is it a solid as can be everything seems to be very solid The underbelly seems to be well attached and I believe that it's glued to the insulation

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #3 – December 18, 2019, 02:18:27 pm

Minor correction.

At 250 inch-lbs, you will NOT break any of the Rolocks-- they are grade 8 bolts.

By torquing, could you remove the bolt heads of already broken bolts-- sure. And likely that the break will be 4-5 threads in and the broken end badly rusted (i.e. you did NOT break them-- they have been broken for a long time).

Said another way, if you break one (a clean break, no rust) I would be shocked.

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #4 – December 18, 2019, 02:30:54 pm

I have tried re-torquing them they did not break but I do see separation with in about three bolts in a row so I am going to do like you said and cut a small hole in the belly and probably put a bolt long side and try it I shall try this if I have any problem I'll contact you back what size hole do you usually drill so needy I'll be able to find a plug afterwards

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #5 – December 18, 2019, 02:35:13 pm

Absolutely, locate a proper waterproof plug first. Heyco 3837 is what I used:

http://www.heyco.com/Liquid_Tight_Cordgrips/product.cfm?product=Hole-Plugs&section=Liquid_Tight_Cordgrips

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #6 – December 18, 2019, 03:59:23 pm

You are right they are broken what do you replace them with 3/8 or 5/16

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #7 – December 18, 2019, 04:10:42 pm

Rust jacking will break bolts plus hydrogen embrittlement will have weakened the bolts. I pulled about 6 or 7 bolts and then used a chisel to open a gap behind the angle iron and then a Sawzall to get as much rust out behind the big angle iron. Roloks were a poor choice to begin with. I replaced a bunch with stainless with nylocs at the far end.. Hot dipped galvanized would also be a good choice. Like Brett says, you can drill a vertical hole up and the install 3/8" bots with flat washers, locknuts and nuts at the far end. If any Roloks break off, you will have to drill fresh holes to the far side so will need a longer bit than normal. Think it's about 3.5 inches to the far side.

I replaced a couple with 3/8" grade 8 bolts and torqued without deforming the rectangular tubing at all.

Photos below show the amount of rust behind the big angle iron in about a 18" to 24" area from the right rear of the coach. Never use a Rolok to make any repair.

Pierce

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #8 – December 18, 2019, 05:04:57 pm

Bulkhead Repair-- A Comprehensive Look

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #9 – December 18, 2019, 06:21:50 pm

If you do have to drill new holes, a conventional drill may not have enough room in some places. A 90 degree drill like HF sells will work.

Here is a 3/8" diameter, 4-1/4 (cutting length) extended bit to reach the far side. I like to use a lube as I'm drilling to extend the bit life. Chicago Latrobe 120 High-Speed Steel Long Length Drill Bit, Black Oxide...

Inexpensive right angle drill: https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=right%20angle%20drill

At used tool stores/ebay, a 1/2" Milwaukee Hole Shooter is a great drill for HD use. They are fairly small but can easily break your wrist so you do need to be careful. Use the screw in grip they come with or buy one. Milwaukee hole shooter | eBay

Good to practice drilling a wood 4x4" to see if you have a tendency to drill off center at the far end and how to correct for it. Not that easy to drill a perpendicular hole at a 3-1/2" distance.

Pierce

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Re: Bulkheads

Reply #10 – December 18, 2019, 06:34:34 pm

I drill a hole in the Belly of the bulkhead and it looks the crossmembers are in bad shape anyone know what the price is to rebuild a bulkhead frame just wondering how expensive of a job this is I'm in a small town to find a welding shop that can take this size of a rig in May be a problem

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #11 – December 18, 2019, 06:53:15 pm

Again, read through all the links on rebuilding. Pretty simple for a good welder. This AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!!!

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #12 – December 18, 2019, 07:02:10 pm

It looks very scary

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #13 – December 18, 2019, 07:37:53 pm

Don did it without knowing anything about welding, etc. And he didn't have a shop to work in. You can do it. Rectangular steel tubing is cheap. Buy it from a supplier as compared to a welding shop. It comes in 20 foot lengths. You will then need a metal cutting band saw (64-1/2" blade) about $200. Look for one on CL or FB Marketplace. Then a wire feed welder with CO2 tank. 0.032 wire will be about right. Our FD master mechanic was one of 6 certified to weld the big strap on the side of Liberty ships in WWII. I hired him but he said his eyes were bad, too old, etc. I asked him to try and within 15 minutes, it looked like a machine had made the welds. So, it's much easier than stick welding and much, much easier than gas welding. Plus, you can weld uphill or downhill, no flux, no big deal. Then a few tools, grinders, Sawzall, etc and away you go. Contact Don to get his input. He is a talented guy and teacher. PM me too. There are a million little tips to save time and having to do something again.

I bought one of these in the 1970s for about $1400 with tank. I welded Friday night, Saturday, and by Sunday night, it had paid for itself. It still works as well today as it did when I bought it. Cheaper Chinese welders available now from HF or used off CL, etc. Like I said, easy without much of a learning curve. Check out the YouTube how to do it videos.

Pierce

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #14 – December 18, 2019, 08:10:13 pm

You make it sound so easy tomorrow I'm gonna make a few phone calls and I'm gonna take the whole underbelly off and see exactly what I'm looking at I have a friend that's a welder he's got the wire welder and CO2 I could ask him if you wants to work on it with me is just the thought of tearing the whole inside a part that's the problem and it's winter I don't know if I can get a garage to work in.

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #15 – December 18, 2019, 08:30:20 pm

Rick,

As I get older, I'm less and less able to function well in cold weather. And I'm talking days in the low 50s and nights in the high 20s. Since our coaches are so big, you do need a large garage to do any work in winter. If you can, I would suggest you wait until spring arrives. Now, I have to come inside and take a hot shower or bath where once the temps get into the 60s, it becomes fun again with a BBQ and a beer at the end of the day.

Using a smart phone camera to document each step in detail makes it so much easier to put things back together again. With a little thought and research, you can do a much better job than the factory did.

Again, before going too much further, contact Don https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1716 as he has direct experience on a coach like yours. He KNOWS all the details and tricks. I welded miles of tubing but for DOT compliance in the grey market so don't have the knowledge he does for your coach..

Your friend sounds like a great resource.

Pierce

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #16 – December 18, 2019, 08:43:10 pm

Question for those who know more than I.

When discussing rust jacking, how much is a sigh of trouble? My rear bulkhead has some jacking, but I don't have a reference to know if it is a problem or if it is just normal amount on a 20 yo coaches.

Does anyone have pictures of different levels from "not too bad" to "OMG don't drive any further"??

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #17 – December 18, 2019, 08:51:53 pm

Have It checked out I thought I had minor rust jacking I just bought this motor coach ,it was kept in climate control garage most of the year that was the prior owner told me and I believe him. Went down from Canada to Florida and back every year. I checked under the fibreglass belly and the cross members are rotted out I can put a screwdriver right through.

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #18 – December 18, 2019, 08:56:27 pm

Really excellent question. Our coach was really clean underneath and showed almost no sign of corrosion/rust. I noticed a couple of Roloks missing and when I tried to back of a few more, they fell off. You could see how much rust was behind the angle iron. Check past advice for checking the tubing, etc.

This is just one sign of a bulkhead problem. Some coaches have had a wet bay leak that caused extensive damage to the rectangular tubing well forward of the bulkhead. The front bulkhead is also susceptible to damage.

Coaches only driven in dry climates are not immune to damage as it may come from leaks, etc.

I did drill several of the tubes and used a borescope to inspect the tubing interior. No rust found.

Pierce

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #19 – December 18, 2019, 10:48:05 pm

Quote from: Cape Bretoner – December 18, 2019, 08:10:13 pm

I'm gonna take the whole underbelly off and see exactly what I'm looking at.....

Assuming it is just the rear bulkhead area, start with removing the FG from the back and peel until you get to solid, un-damaged box beams. In many cases, just forward of the wet bay you will find good, un-damaged beams.

Feel free to post pictures.

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #20 – December 18, 2019, 11:19:48 pm

Some good reads:

Bulkhead Repair (Partial Floor Replacement)

Rear Bulkhead Repair

Before, During, After

Don starts buttoning her up (split from Re: What did you do to your coach)

Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT - Page 2

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #21 – December 21, 2019, 07:49:54 am

A couple of months ago we had a leak in the manifold area.
We turned on the water (outside source) and after about 10 minutes realize it was leaking very badly in that area.
We immediately turned the water off and dried that area and saw that it was leaking underneath.
My question is, is a one time issue like that of concern.

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #22 – December 21, 2019, 09:04:06 am

Quote from: Cape Bretoner – December 18, 2019, 08:51:53 pm

Have It checked out I thought I had minor rust jacking I just bought this motor coach ,it was kept in climate control garage most of the year that was the prior owner told me and I believe him. Went down from Canada to Florida and back every year. I checked under the fibreglass belly and the cross members are rotted out I can put a screwdriver right through.

On Facebook, Chris Stump Allen did just this repair this fall past.
It is posted in the group Grand Villa Motor Homes.
Here is the beginning of the project.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3008251505858245&set=pcb.425174748119492&type=3&theater&ifg=1
It was warm.

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #23 – December 21, 2019, 09:10:44 am

Quote from: 18360 – December 21, 2019, 07:49:54 am

A couple of months ago we had a leak in the manifold area.
We turned on the water (outside source) and after about 10 minutes realize it was leaking very badly in that area.
We immediately turned the water off and dried that area and saw that it was leaking underneath.
My question is, is a one time issue like that of concern.

Yes, it is a concern, as water that gets into the basement sandwich/bulkhead area really has no way to get out.

Were it mine, I would peel back the fiberglass coach bottom until you get to areas there were not soaked. Replace any water-logged insulation. Let it dry out. Then evaluate whether just a wire brush and treatment with rust killer is adequate to repair.

The mild, untreated steel IS susceptible to damage when water gets in there.

Re: Bulkheads

Reply #24 – December 21, 2019, 09:21:14 am

I found water in the pump area yesterday and it looks like it is coming from under the tank. I will try and find it this afternoon
when it quits raining. Any ideas would be appreciated.

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