GFI - Page 2

Topic: GFI (Read 1527 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: GFI

Reply #25 – December 20, 2019, 04:45:28 pm

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – December 20, 2019, 03:24:30 pm

I know that many will not agree with this, but I replaced the bath GFI with a 20 amp duplex outlet, due to occasional nuisance trips. I know that the purpose of a GFI is to prevent death due to an electrical fault. However FT did not put a GFI on the bedroom outlets, so there is no GFI protection on those outlets. I did put a GFI in the sanitary compartment and it feeds the outside outlet and the basement outlet, so I do have protection where I am more likely to receive an electrical shock. One could have a GFI in the bath and connect the other outlets that are down stream directly to the line from the CB panel. Install GFI's where you think they are needed (near a sink, etc.). One can also install GFI CB's in the CB panels, if you want more protection. Don't make the mistake of replacing the bath GFI with one rated at 15 amps because it costs less.

Jerry, I know you are aware of the safety protection you removed from the area near the sink in the bathroom and down line to the other before protected outlets by the detail of your post. So my concern is not you with an issue, my concern is after you are done with the rv. Would it not be more prudent to fix the "occasional nuisance trips" than remove a code safety device?

Re: GFI

Reply #26 – December 20, 2019, 11:05:02 pm

Racedad
Assuming it's the same as mine it's a 20 amp circuit so there would be 10 receptacles on it.
First thing is to trip the GFCI and identify what goes off, second thing is to unplug everything from the circuit, would be surprised if there are lights on the same circuit (not standard for residential wiring) and see if it still trips, typically there are no junction boxes on a run unless accessible , so you are now dealing with a limited number of places you would have a problem.
Bigger problem is that you cannot remove the wire from the receptacles because they require an obsolete tool to put them back together, receptacles are all plastic highly unlike they are the issue, more likely something someone has plugged into or added to the circuit is causing the trip

Re: GFI

Reply #27 – December 21, 2019, 09:21:58 am

Quote from: "Irish" – December 20, 2019, 11:05:02 pm

Racedad
Assuming it's the same as mine it's a 20 amp circuit so there would be 10 receptacles on it.

David,

Not sure I understand the relationship: 20 amp circuit= 10 receptacles. A 20 amp circuit could feed only one or a whole string of receptacles.

Said another way they are not closely related.

Re: GFI

Reply #28 – December 21, 2019, 07:10:53 pm

Brett
What I was trying to say is that there is a limited number of receptacles on a circuit, equally electricians hate to waste a good circuit so they max it out , which would generally be 10 receptacles on a 20 amp circuit.

Re: GFI

Reply #29 – December 21, 2019, 07:33:35 pm

No, absolutely don't agree with removing the GFI. There is a big reason they install these especially in the bathroom where there is a good chance of a wet environment and low skin resistance. A good idea to protect ALL outlets in the coach. So, just put in a new one as they do wear out. How about the next owner? Are you going to remember to tell him/her that you took it out?

Intermediate voltage, 110V to 440V is the most dangerous type. A domestic power supply voltage (110 or 230 V), 50 or 60 Hz alternating current (AC) through the chest for a fraction of a second may induce ventricular fibrillation at currents as low as 30 milliamperes (mA). The heart will not restart without a defibrillator and while CPR is mandatory, an ambulance with the defib unit is needed.

If the "hotrod" heater rod for the water heater is wired into that circuit, it may trigger the GFI if it gets wet or damp like in a rain or snow storm. Ours did.

Pierce

Re: GFI

Reply #30 – December 21, 2019, 07:53:17 pm

Yes, if an aftermarket "hot rod" is in the Atwood water heater (not recommended by Atwood) and is on that circuit, indeed it could be the culprit!

Re: GFI

Reply #31 – December 22, 2019, 03:13:15 pm

Sounds like your GFI is doing its best to do its job. Resolve the power going to ground and your tripping problem will be gone. #1 cause of residential fires is nails in romex in the walls. This is why most cities now require ground fault protection in kitchens,bathrooms,garages, and out doors. Arc fault breakers required in sleeping areas.
They work and are safe. That being said what a pain in the rump to find the electrical leak/fault. Good hunting
Scott

Re: GFI

Reply #32 – December 23, 2019, 12:11:30 pm

Quote from: Jack Lewis – December 20, 2019, 04:45:28 pm

Jerry, I know you are aware of the safety protection you removed from the area near the sink in the bathroom and down line to the other before protected outlets by the detail of your post. So my concern is not you with an issue, my concern is after you are done with the rv. Would it not be more prudent to fix the "occasional nuisance trips" than remove a code safety device?

Ok Jack, good point. Since I am trying to sell my RV will put a GFI outlet back in the bath and let the next owner deal with the nuisance trips. Most of the time this happened when I was driving. I used to use a laptop with a map program (Streets and Trips) on the dash. The laptop was plugged in but would die after the GFI tripped, usually when I needed it. Said laptop is now dead and replaced, but no one is making map programs for computers anymore that will work like my old one. Smart phones have taken over that function, it seems. My old Tom Tom GPS unit with life time map updates no longer updates, seems I have to buy another with life time updates. Sorry I got off thread with my bitching.

Although there is nothing unsafe about having 10 outlets on a circuit that has a CB sized to protect the wiring, it is not good practice to do that. FT should have used 2 circuits with 5 on each.

Re: GFI

Reply #33 – December 23, 2019, 12:23:31 pm

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – December 23, 2019, 12:11:30 pm

Although there is nothing unsafe about having 10 outlets on a circuit that has a CB sized to protect the wiring, it is not good practice to do that. FT should have used 2 circuits with 5 on each.

Again, amps of breakers is unrelated to number of outlets.

Sure, they could have used two 10 amp breakers to supply 5 outlets each. Or one breaker for 2 (like with large draw such as the microwave) and the other breaker the other 8 outlets that would be used for low-amp appliances.

Re: GFI

Reply #34 – December 23, 2019, 07:23:09 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 23, 2019, 12:23:31 pm

Again, amps of breakers is unrelated to number of outlets.
Sure, they could have used two 10 amp breakers to supply 5 outlets each. Or one breaker for 2 (like with large draw such as the microwave) and the other breaker the other 8 outlets that would be used for low-amp appliances.

This is definitely not what I meant, which was two 20 amp circuits with 5 more or less outlets on each. If the wire size used can carry 20 amps then it should have a 20 amp breaker. All the wire for 120 vac outlets in my coach can carry 20 amps. The wire to the CB panels, transfer switches, etc is larger as it has to carry a larger load.

Re: GFI

Reply #35 – December 23, 2019, 09:58:49 pm

Jerry,

Sorry, I mis-read it. You are correct.

Yes, the WIRE size/gauge determines what breaker size should be. Whether one outlet or 20.

Re: GFI

Reply #36 – December 23, 2019, 10:39:50 pm

In my original comment about the ten receptacles on the twenty amp circuit it was understood that the wire is twelve gauge, because that's what Fortravel used.
Yes, wire size dictates breaker size if discussing maximum breaker size, but so does receptacle rating, most standard receptacles in the US on a twenty amp circuit are rated for a fifteen amp draw.
With that, the standard circuit has ten receptacles, it may have less, but not more to prevent overloading the wire or breaker.
For specialized circuits where there is a specific draw of (say) thirty amps, then there can only be one receptacle for that breaker with a matching wire size of ten gauge and the receptacle must be rated to match.

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Re: GFI

Reply #25 – December 20, 2019, 04:45:28 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #26 – December 20, 2019, 11:05:02 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #27 – December 21, 2019, 09:21:58 am

Re: GFI

Reply #28 – December 21, 2019, 07:10:53 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #29 – December 21, 2019, 07:33:35 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #30 – December 21, 2019, 07:53:17 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #31 – December 22, 2019, 03:13:15 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #32 – December 23, 2019, 12:11:30 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #33 – December 23, 2019, 12:23:31 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #34 – December 23, 2019, 07:23:09 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #35 – December 23, 2019, 09:58:49 pm

Re: GFI

Reply #36 – December 23, 2019, 10:39:50 pm

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