GFI

Topic: GFI (Read 1527 times) previous topic - next topic

GFI

December 19, 2019, 12:25:56 pm

The GFI in the bathroom finally decided to self destruct. After replacing it, the new GFI will not reset. It is sensing over 5 mili-amps on the ground. I have unplugged everything on that circuit. No joy. I have unplugged everything on the 110v AC except the inverter. There is no continuity between the hot feed wire and neutral or ground indicating nothing is on the circuit. No joy. Ideas?

Re: GFI

Reply #1 – December 19, 2019, 12:35:14 pm

Bad gfi out of the box?

Re: GFI

Reply #2 – December 19, 2019, 12:35:57 pm

Could it just be a failed new GFI?

Re: GFI

Reply #3 – December 19, 2019, 12:37:40 pm

New GFI wired correctly?

Roland

Re: GFI

Reply #4 – December 19, 2019, 12:39:08 pm

Yes.

Re: GFI

Reply #5 – December 19, 2019, 12:41:25 pm

I cannot offer specific recommendations, but this article might help. I had to replace some wiring in our house due to GFCI trips. Good Luck in finding it. Interested in what you find.

Chasing Ghost Trips in GFCI circuits

Re: GFI

Reply #6 – December 19, 2019, 01:21:19 pm

The GFI is good and I replaced it with a known good GFI. I wondered if there was feedback on the power pedestal but I Have two GFI breakers there and they work correctly.

Re: GFI

Reply #7 – December 19, 2019, 01:46:00 pm

Is one leg of the line monitor wired to that circuit. Behind the monitor are 2 plugs that go into wall sockets.

Re: GFI

Reply #8 – December 19, 2019, 02:07:27 pm

Here is the circuit layout.

Re: GFI

Reply #9 – December 19, 2019, 02:33:50 pm

Is the coach plugged into a GFI for shore power? If so, try a non-GFI outlet. Many times an outlet GFI does not "play nice" with coach GFI's.

Re: GFI

Reply #10 – December 19, 2019, 03:11:27 pm

Racedad, not doughting you expertise but I have inadvertently wired my supply and outfield backward and they will not reset
If I'm not mistaken there are several receptacles downline from the Bath GFCI
Just saying
Chris

Re: GFI

Reply #11 – December 19, 2019, 04:10:57 pm

Chris it is wired correctly and there are no GFI on the supply side.

Re: GFI

Reply #12 – December 19, 2019, 04:18:57 pm

Craneman the monitor is not on that circuit. There is only the things listed on the schematic. With that circuit de-energized I cannot find any other outlets or devices that are not powered other than what I haved checked. Somewhere the ground must be tied to another circuit.

Re: GFI

Reply #13 – December 19, 2019, 04:25:20 pm

Quote from: Racedad – December 19, 2019, 04:18:57 pm

Somewhere the ground must be tied to another circuit.

One option to confirm that theory might be to disconnect the ground on the GFCI.

GFCIs work without a ground wire and is an acceptable way of providing protection in residential retrofits where there are no ground wires..

Re: GFI

Reply #14 – December 19, 2019, 04:42:50 pm

Let me see if I have this correct.

The old GFI started tripping and you thought it was a bad GFI
You install a new GFI, verify that the line wires are on the line side of the plug and load wires are on the load side of the plug, the hots are on the hot screws and the neutrals on the neutral screws.
You did no assume it was wired up correct before and triple checked that you have the correct wires on the correct spots on the plug.

The next step is to go in the middle of the circuit and remove the plug and disconnect the wire at the plug. If GFI sets then problem is in the circuit after where you split it. If GFI still trips then problem is before where you split it. Now go to the middle of circuit again and remove plug and disconnect the wires. If GFI stays on then problem is between the two plugs you removed, if trips then between GFI plug and the last plug you removed.

FPN ( Old GFI's could be wired wrong and still work. Too many people were wiring them up incorrectly so they changed the requirements and made them where they had to trip and not work if not wired up correctly)

Re: GFI

Reply #15 – December 19, 2019, 05:36:47 pm

The breaker was not tripping. It fell apart when a plug was inserted. The old breaker was wired correctly. The new GFI is wired correctly. Without the load wires connected it resets. Adding the load wires and it trips. There is no short between the hot and neutral. There is about 90 mili amps on the neutral and the ground. I do not know how the daisy chain of outlets is wired. When disconnected from the supply there is no current to the hot I still have the same ghost power. I have no indication that anyone has modified this coach wiring.

Does anyone have a schematic for how this circuit is wired (order of the daisy chain)?

Re: GFI

Reply #16 – December 19, 2019, 06:26:45 pm

Quote from: Racedad – December 19, 2019, 12:25:56 pm

. There is no continuity between the hot feed wire and neutral or ground indicating nothing is on the circuit. No joy. Ideas?

is there continuity between the neutral and ground on the load side of the GFCI with it disconnected?

Re: GFI

Reply #17 – December 19, 2019, 08:16:00 pm

My '95 U320 had small surge protectors at some of the items that were plugged in. Microwave and tv's. Those can cause gfi problems.
Go through the coach and start unplugging anything you can. You might get lucky.

Re: GFI

Reply #18 – December 19, 2019, 08:27:10 pm

You don't have to know the exact route of the electricity from the GFI outlet to the rest. All you really need to know is which outlets are on that circuit.

I'd go at this problem this way: First I'd make sure that the breaker in the box is on, and then try resetting the GFI. If that doesn't solve the problem, I'd figure out exactly which outlets are on the circuit. Easiest way to do that is to have a light, radio, hair dryer, etc. plugged into each outlet, and that all of the appliances are turned on. If the only circuit that isn't powered is the GFI one, it will be easy to tell which outlets are downstream. Nothing will work on those outlets.

Now, TURN OFF the breaker for the circuit. Better yet, if you can, kill ALL power to the coach. Now go to each outlet on the circuit and temporarily remove and cap the black and white wires. If there is any question about the capping, tape it, too. Once that is done, turn the power back on and reset the breaker. Does it reset? Good. Turn the power off and reconnect the outlet that you think may be the next one in line. Turn the power back on and check that the GFI resets and that you have power at the outlet you reconnected. If you don't it means that one of the other outlets is actually the first one. Disconnect the wires on that outlet and connect them on another one. Eventually you will figure out which is the first outlet downstream from the GFI. If the GFI resets when the power is reapplied you know that the problem isn't there. Go to the next outlet and reconnect it.

Yes, you are going to spend a fair amount of time turning the breaker on and off, but better to be safe than sorry.

The first thing I'd do, though, is to turn the breaker in the BOX on, they try to reset the GFI. Some new GFI outlets come tripped and require that the electricity be applied in order to reset. Others may not be tripped right out of the box, but while convincing the wires to go back into the box far enough to allow the GFI to join them the test button is pushed, tripping the unit.

Chasing down something like this can have you talking to yourself, so take it slowly and keep good notes.

Re: GFI

Reply #19 – December 19, 2019, 08:39:11 pm

Probably any outlet you can plug something into is on that gfi circuit.
Including any that are outside. A little moisture in an outside receptical would cause your problem.

Re: GFI

Reply #20 – December 19, 2019, 10:04:45 pm

John actually on my coach there is a mix of GFI protected outlets and non protected outlets. The basement has one outlet in the pass through bay and one in the utility bay. Nothing is plugged in there but I will check for moisture.

Re: GFI

Reply #21 – December 19, 2019, 10:08:58 pm

Foretravel used metal boxes to hold the GFCI, if the wires so much as touch the box it makes an imbalance and off goes the power, pull out the receptacle and put a few wraps of electric tape all around the receptacle to stop any chance of the hot or neutral touching the ground wire or the box, once this is done if it keeps tripping it's a question of isolating the issue, unplug everything from the circuit.
try the tape, it would not be the first time a metal box tripped a GFCI
Does the GFCI if it's not in the box?
If you want to check if it's the GFCI disconnect the wires from the GFCI that feed the down line and see if it trips
Good luck!

Re: GFI

Reply #22 – December 19, 2019, 11:09:15 pm

Irish. I have eliminated the metal box. I have removed all of the outlets but cannot follow the wire to the end of the circuit. Nothing is plugged in. I have a wire chaser (signal generator/receiver) and can find the wires but cannot see where they go. Tomorrow I will remove the dimmer for the 110v light. Thanks for responding.

Re: GFI

Reply #23 – December 20, 2019, 07:35:45 am

Racedad,

Which line monitor do you have? If you have the old analog style (Power watch) that has the RED and Green lights take it down and unplug it from the receptacle. Those bulbs are florescent and if the ballast inside of one of them has/is failing it can cause the GFI to trip.

Mike

Re: GFI

Reply #24 – December 20, 2019, 03:24:30 pm

I know that many will not agree with this, but I replaced the bath GFI with a 20 amp duplex outlet, due to occasional nuisance trips. I know that the purpose of a GFI is to prevent death due to an electrical fault. However FT did not put a GFI on the bedroom outlets, so there is no GFI protection on those outlets. I did put a GFI in the sanitary compartment and it feeds the outside outlet and the basement outlet, so I do have protection where I am more likely to receive an electrical shock. One could have a GFI in the bath and connect the other outlets that are down stream directly to the line from the CB panel. Install GFI's where you think they are needed (near a sink, etc.). One can also install GFI CB's in the CB panels, if you want more protection. Don't make the mistake of replacing the bath GFI with one rated at 15 amps because it costs less.

Affiliate Notice