Gas connection to a large propane tank

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Gas connection to a large propane tank

December 28, 2019, 10:02:03 pm

Have a U270 and a "extend-a-stay at the Onboard tank where the gas grill connector is. Have a large propane tank 40 ft from that the onboard "extend-a-stay" which allows the propane distributor to deliver bulk propane to keep the coach warm in the winter. (They will not fill the onboard tank)
PROBLEM: the two stage regulator on the coach freezes up when the furnace is operated (it does not freeze if the onboard tank is used) which means the gas in the pipe to the regulator is liquid and not vaporizing posing a serious danger.
NO: the bulk tank is not over filled, checked and rechecked it's at 60%
Has anyone else used a bulk tank?
-There is no regulator on the bulk tank.
AM I RIGHT? This is what is required:
1) the two stage regulator needs to be replaced with a low pressure (approx 11" Lb) regulator.
2) A 10 Lb regulator should be installed on the pipe exiting the in board tank.
3) A T-connector between the two regulators on the coach to connect the bulk tank to the coach.
4) A 10 lb regular on the pipe from the bulk tank before it enters the coach.
My propane supplier has had a few crazy suggestions, any of you out there who have had this issue, I have used an extend a stay and never had an issue before.

David

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #1 – December 28, 2019, 10:11:40 pm

No experience with your type of set up, but like all RV's, your on-board propane system and its regulator are set to 11" WC (Water Column) which is under 1/2 PSI.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #2 – December 28, 2019, 10:25:21 pm

Knew it was 11 something, changed it, thanks Brett

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #3 – December 29, 2019, 08:57:51 am

I have the same set-up with a aux bottle since we get no delivery at the park. I had problems like the OP and replaced the regulator (which was factory-set to 11"), worked fine.

The aux bottle runs everything EXCEPT THE GEN SET, which is normal, I'm told. I have to go to the on-board tank for the gennie.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #4 – December 29, 2019, 09:28:26 am

Quote from: "Irish" – December 28, 2019, 10:02:03 pm

Have a U270 and a "extend-a-stay at the Onboard tank where the gas grill connector is. Have a large propane tank 40 ft from that the onboard "extend-a-stay" which allows the propane distributor to deliver bulk propane to keep the coach warm in the winter. (They will not fill the onboard tank)
PROBLEM: the two stage regulator on the coach freezes up when the furnace is operated (it does not freeze if the onboard tank is used) which means the gas in the pipe to the regulator is liquid and not vaporizing posing a serious danger.
NO: the bulk tank is not over filled, checked and rechecked it's at 60%
Has anyone else used a bulk tank?
-There is no regulator on the bulk tank.
AM I RIGHT? This is what is required:
1) the two stage regulator needs to be replaced with a low pressure (approx 11" Lb) regulator.
2) A 10 Lb regulator should be installed on the pipe exiting the in board tank.
3) A T-connector between the two regulators on the coach to connect the bulk tank to the coach.
4) A 10 lb regular on the pipe from the bulk tank before it enters the coach.
My propane supplier has had a few crazy suggestions, any of you out there who have had this issue, I have used an extend a stay and never had an issue before.

David

You can get the propane company to deliver if you find someone doing something that might get them fired. Then write corporate.

Brett is right, propane from the tank is regulated to 11 inches water column.

I have used a bulk tank but my current situation does not permit a bulk tank installation.

On my previous home I did plumb in my own tap after the on board regulator. I have a 40 pound DOT cylinder* that I used with a "grill style" regulator to extend my stay, feeding the low pressure side of my system.

When I had a bulk tank at the previous address, I used their regulator to feed my system on the low pressure side. Id est, I'm not comfortable running high pressure propane in rubber lines.

As for Mr. Leary, my generator uses vapor from the tank but has a larger line to a dedicated regulator for the generator.

* The largest DOT cylinder that I can transport on my motorcycle.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #5 – December 29, 2019, 09:43:22 am

You use a 2 stage system, at the tank a adjustable regulator such as you would use on your air compressor set at 10 lbs. appox, at house is your wc regulator, been doing this forever works well.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #6 – December 31, 2019, 01:27:59 pm

I've always wanted to add an Extend a Stay type of device so I have questions. Just got finished watching a few youtube videos about this. Most do not mention adding a pressure regulator when installing the device. RVGEEKS does mention adding a 15PSI regulator, using the tee to a barbecue grill. His hose line is 12 feet long. Oil gummed his hose line.

Irish mentioned it was 40 feet to his bulk tank. Is the distance the reason you need to add the additional regulator?

Mike Leary's set up looks like a tank gauge on his 20lb tank, not a regulator.

Confused

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #7 – December 31, 2019, 03:06:03 pm

Here's a better pic:

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #8 – December 31, 2019, 08:49:11 pm

Irish

The onboard propane tank on my Foretravel has two valves, one for vapour (feeds furnaces, refer, hot water, stove) and one for liquid (feeds nothing but could be used for a generator). Does your bulk tank have two separate valves and your feed hose is connected to the liquid valve. This would definitely frost up your regulator (not designed to deal with liquid propane). The vapour valve will be near the top of the tank while the liquid valve will be closer to the bottom of the tank.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #9 – January 01, 2020, 12:27:14 am

We only have the one valve that feeds the regulator. The only other valve is the manual bleed for releasing pressure when filling, so it it one I would mess with.
Appears not all years are the same

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #10 – January 01, 2020, 12:43:32 am

Wyatt.
We have the dual valve also. One for vapor and one liquid valve. I intended to use the liquid one to fill the small 1 lb bottles. ( little buddy and outdoor cooktop).
BUT ,, I opened the liquid valve once and had a heck of a time getting getting it shut off. Scared the hell out of me. The local gas company told me they could replace the valve but I had to empty it completely first, they no longer evacuate them. Don't know when I'll completely empty the dang thing.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #11 – January 01, 2020, 08:17:33 am

Quote from: Bob & Sue – January 01, 2020, 12:43:32 am

Scared the hell out of me. The local gas company told me they could replace the valve but I had to empty it completely first, they no longer evacuate them. Don't know when I'll completely empty the dang thing.

We had a valve go bad also, was leaking and bothering the fellow campers. The propane guy said it was the fire dept. that banned draining the tanks on their premises. He suggested we take the coach out to the boonies and run it out and, with nothing on, open the bleeder to finish it. Even doing this, when I took the coach back, when the valve was unscrewed, it still 'popped' and could smell propane for a second!

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #12 – January 01, 2020, 09:48:35 am

Quote from: "Irish" – January 01, 2020, 12:27:14 am

We only have the one valve that feeds the regulator. The only other valve is the manual bleed for releasing pressure when filling, so it it one I would mess with.
Appears not all years are the same

The first day of a new year and here I go already.

The little valve can be called the 80% valve, the outage valve and is the full level valve.

When filling the tank, open this valve and the exhaust will be clear. As soon as the liquid propane reaches that level the exhaust will turn white with boiling propane.

No need to vent the tank when filling, the pressure from the transfer pump will cause the vapor in the tank to condense into liquid.

Fire chief's can be fun. The food vendor for the Flea at MIT in the Albany street parking garage must work outside of the garage and can only use 1# propane bottles for his stove

Happy Hew Year!

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #13 – January 01, 2020, 10:05:57 am

Quote from: Lance Camper – December 31, 2019, 01:27:59 pm

Irish mentioned it was 40 feet to his bulk tank. Is the distance the reason you need to add the additional regulator?

Confused

The cure for confusion is knowledge and coffee.

Propane tanks are designed to contain 250 pounds per square inch of pressure. Older tanks 220 psi.

The pressure inside the tank is around 100 PSI depending on the temperature.

The pressure of the vapor delivered to your appliances is 11 inches water column.

Take a piece of aquarium tubing and fill it one half full with water. Make a vertical "U". Blow in one end until the difference between the high and low water in the legs of the "U" is 11 inches. 11" WC.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #14 – January 01, 2020, 10:19:52 am

11" WC= 0.397003 PSI

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #15 – January 01, 2020, 10:50:12 am

As long as we're talkin' propane, maybe Brett (or one of you smarties) could explain this quote from my (Brett's) files; have always wondered about it: "Convert Gen set to vapor with shut-off." I know the lower ball valve in my earlier post pic goes to the G.S.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #16 – January 01, 2020, 10:57:04 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 01, 2020, 10:19:52 am

11" WC= 0.397003 PSI

And that thunderous joyous noise from a large mechanical action pipe organ?

3-5" WC.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #17 – January 01, 2020, 12:11:31 pm

Quote from: mike leary – January 01, 2020, 10:50:12 am

As long as we're talkin' propane, maybe Brett (or one of you smarties) could explain this quote from my (Brett's) files; have always wondered about it: "Convert Gen set to vapor with shut-off." I know the lower ball valve in my earlier post pic goes to the G.S.?

Mike,

Exactly what is says: Generator was originally liquid LP powered. Liquid LP Onan generators had a terrible time with clogged regulators on the generator itself-- the regulator is laying horizontal so longer hydrocarbon chain contaminants collect rather than passing through and being burned. A good, common regulator installed in "less than ideal" orientation.

Went over to San Marcos, TX to discuss this with an engineer at Marshall Gas (makes most of the RV regulators). At his suggestion, converted to high pressure (before house regulator) vapor. The longer hydrocarbon chain contaminants do not vaporize, so the regulator does not clog up. Vapor pressure of propane to the generator engine is exactly the same.

My notes say it was converted 16 years ago.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #18 – January 01, 2020, 12:31:34 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 01, 2020, 12:11:31 pm

Exactly what is says: Generator was originally liquid LP powered. Liquid LP Onan generators had a terrible time with clogged regulators on the generator itself-My notes say it was converted 16 years ago.

Yup, I show March, 2003. BTW, your copious notes were a BIG reason I bought the coach!

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #19 – January 01, 2020, 01:27:30 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 01, 2020, 12:11:31 pm

Went over to San Marcos, TX to discuss this with an engineer at Marshall Gas (makes most of the RV regulators). At his suggestion, converted to high pressure (before house regulator) vapor. The longer hydrocarbon chain contaminants do not vaporize, so the regulator does not clog up.

Brett,
This is intriguing, (and a bit off topic) but I never thought about the fact that the product that I buy as propane probably has little bits of other petroleum distillates mixed in. I wonder, if those longer (heaver) contaminates do not vaporize, what happens to them after twenty years of using only the vapor out of the top of my tank? Do I have a tiny bit of heavier hydrocarbons lurking in the bottom of my propane tank?

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #20 – January 01, 2020, 01:32:17 pm

Years ago 80s I converted about 100 vehicles from Gasoline to Propane. They use the liquid line to a heated regulator to carb set up. Periodically they had to be serviced due to contamination.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #21 – January 01, 2020, 02:33:30 pm

Quote from: Jan & Richard – January 01, 2020, 01:27:30 pm

Brett,
This is intriguing, (and a bit off topic) but I never thought about the fact that the product that I buy as propane probably has little bits of other petroleum distillates mixed in. I wonder, if those longer (heaver) contaminates do not vaporize, what happens to them after twenty years of using only the vapor out of the top of my tank? Do I have a tiny bit of heavier hydrocarbons lurking in the bottom of my propane tank?

YES, there will be some in the bottom of the tank. As to whether it is "deep" enough to reach the liquid LP tap (if you have one)-- I have no idea.

Re: Gas connection to a large propane tank

Reply #22 – January 01, 2020, 07:29:08 pm

Quote from: Jan & Richard – January 01, 2020, 01:27:30 pm

Brett,
This is intriguing, (and a bit off topic) but I never thought about the fact that the product that I buy as propane probably has little bits of other petroleum distillates mixed in. I wonder, if those longer (heaver) contaminates do not vaporize, what happens to them after twenty years of using only the vapor out of the top of my tank? Do I have a tiny bit of heavier hydrocarbons lurking in the bottom of my propane tank?

Depending on where you live, your propane contains a little butane or a lot of butane. Plus all propane is dosed with mercaptan for that characteristic propane odor. Your tank also came with a measured amount of methanol to soak up any water.

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