300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Topic: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins? (Read 3787 times) previous topic - next topic

300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

February 03, 2020, 08:09:36 pm

Anyone know how I can get my 1996 8.3 from 300hp to 330 as some had? It's the mechanical pump, so I assume a fuel plate? or turn the pump up? Injectors? Thanks

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #1 – February 03, 2020, 08:51:02 pm

Call gale Banks engineering?

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #2 – February 03, 2020, 09:17:00 pm

Quote from: dans96u295ft – February 03, 2020, 08:09:36 pm

Anyone know how I can get my 1996 8.3 from 300hp to 330 as some had? It's the mechanical pump, so I assume a fuel plate? or turn the pump up? Injectors? Thanks

94 Bluebird BMC 37' Cummins 300 power upgrade via fuel plate etc. Longgggg thread. My ex coach. Brazel's Performance RV (BMC Service) - Wanderlodge Owners Group

Post number 88 begins discussion on fuel plates.

Also add boost and EGT gauges if you change the fuel plate. Recommendations for boost/pyro gauges? - Wanderlodge Owners Group

(I am no longer on that forum)

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #3 – February 04, 2020, 05:17:07 am

Banks was done to my coach, but not for 30hp
Larger CAC
Guages
Fuel plate and different pump
Turbo wrap
PO said 75hp
All I know is I get 28+ pounds of boost on a 5% grade and never leave 6th!
Cruse set at 65mph
8-10mpg
Love it !

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #4 – February 04, 2020, 08:03:09 am

One bit of advice for guys happy with the Banks set up-hang onto it, Banks kits are NLA for this era engine. Will need to look at mods along the lines of Dan's excellent writeup documenting his systematic performance approach on his "Bird.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #5 – February 04, 2020, 09:48:27 am

Not throw cold water on more horsepower. But it can run into a good bit of money for relatively little gain, on a 20+ year old motor. In the real world 300 or 600 horsepower everyone gets there. 😎

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #6 – February 04, 2020, 09:49:50 am

Also, might consider removing muffler if it is still there and replace with a resonator. That should give you a boost in hp and it is not that expensive.
Chris

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #7 – February 04, 2020, 09:53:54 am

Good info guys. I'll go with the resonator change and call it good. Any brands you like? Is it a bolt on experience.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #8 – February 04, 2020, 10:07:04 am

Quote from: dans96u295ft – February 04, 2020, 09:53:54 am

Any brands you like? Is it a bolt on experience.

Type "resonator" or "muffler" in the search box at the top right corner of any page. Click "search entire forum". Lots of good info/photos.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #9 – February 04, 2020, 11:46:14 am

Or a straight pipe. Our coach had no muffler or resonator when we purchased and it's still in the same configuration.

Roland

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #10 – February 04, 2020, 12:48:34 pm

Adding a resonator and having a pump shop add some fuel to the Bosch P pump would be the least expensive way to add a bit of HP. Too much fuel and it will smoke so keep that in mind. An EGT is then mandatory as it's easy to run too high on long grades with low RPM. Gauge sensor has to be in the exhaust manifold as close to an exhaust port as possible within reason to get accurate readings. And yes, you can add fuel without hurting the mileage.

Pierce

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #11 – February 04, 2020, 12:54:21 pm

Seen a lot of c8.3's turned up. Zero problems. Better mpg. No trans issues. Wish banks still had their kit available.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #12 – February 04, 2020, 12:54:54 pm

I have the pump on my '81 with the "triple nickel" turned up from the stock 225 hp to 250 hp. and added the pyrometer to keep from melting pistons. 225 and even the turned up 250 doesn't move a 40 dinosaur very fast.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #13 – February 04, 2020, 01:27:20 pm

This guy turned his one up too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOkMMaQJGqY

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #14 – February 04, 2020, 02:15:19 pm

I guess I'm just curious: if it's okay to "turn it up", why didn't the factory do that when they were built?

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #15 – February 04, 2020, 02:26:02 pm

Cummins was reportedly cutting back emissions on some OTR engine families to make up for over emitting on earlier engines.

My understanding was that versus recall millions of engines that someone suggested a easier fix. Reduce emissions on future engines to equal out the OTR fleet emissions.

80's and very early 90's engines I drove from various manufacturers were noticeably more powerful with the same ratings IMO.

When I first drove my U320 I was very disappointed with its power versus what I had experienced before.

The latest engines with the ultra high pressure fuel rail and variable turbos seem to "go" better.

The multiple injector shots per cycle versus one and the newer turbo and head seems to produce more power for the same displacement.

Obviously some have EGR and/or require DEF fluid

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #16 – February 04, 2020, 02:58:15 pm

Quote from: bogeygolfer – February 04, 2020, 02:15:19 pm

I guess I'm just curious: if it's okay to "turn it up", why didn't the factory do that when they were built?

A lot of fleet owners had the lower horsepower versions for economy sake. Paying drivers by the mile didn't require horsepower. The M-11 came with a 370 hp version that just a flash on the computer turned it into a 400 hp with no other changes needed.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #17 – February 04, 2020, 05:08:38 pm

Quote from: bogeygolfer – February 04, 2020, 02:15:19 pm

I guess I'm just curious: if it's okay to "turn it up", why didn't the factory do that when they were built?

Anytime you produce more power, you produce more heat and reduce the engine's life as well. A Cummins 8.3 B-50 life at 250 hp vs 350 hp is going to be a lot different. Plus, it will produce more emissions at the same time. 4 cycle diesels with greatly increased fuel are going to run dangerously high EGTs under conditions the typical driver will encounter on every trip. Very few average RV drivers are going to be able to watch the EGT and drive accordingly.

The safest way to flatten the grades is to buy a coach with a bigger engine to begin with. The least internal failure in one of our diesels is going to cost $30K to fix if taken to a shop.

Pierce

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #18 – February 04, 2020, 10:03:07 pm

That guy in the GMC probably has the Oldsmobile 455,it's comes turned up.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #19 – February 04, 2020, 10:41:55 pm

Craneman as far as I know the 450 version of the m11 requires many changes. Sodium exhaust valves. Block support.

I could change the entire top end to the 500hp setup. Bottom is the same. $15k? Would be fun.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #20 – February 04, 2020, 11:34:41 pm

That flash was only for the early 400 hp that was turned down to 370 hp for otr fleet trucks. I know that it can be done on our 450 hp motors as one of our members had his turned up to 500 hp. It required a resistor hooked to a plug that is already on our loom, then the ecm thinks the turbo with a wastegate is installed and will accept the 500 hp programing. Not for the faint of heart.

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #21 – February 05, 2020, 11:27:34 am

I have the Banks on our 350and yes fully aware they do not make the system for this engine any more. They told ma a few years ago that they cannot get the tuner any more for this model. Seems strange they do not get another designed.
As I have mentioned numerous times I will be sad if this one ever goes down and I lose the 33lbs boost and great fuel mileage, to say the least of the take off etc.
I watch that boost gauge and vms very closely when climbing long hills.
JohnH

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #22 – February 05, 2020, 07:25:44 pm

How to Get More Power From Your P-Pump Cummins | DrivingLine
Low buck diesel power

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #23 – February 06, 2020, 12:14:54 am

Quote from: stump – February 05, 2020, 07:25:44 pm

How to Get More Power From Your P-Pump Cummins | DrivingLine
Low buck diesel power

Good links! We pulled all the Bosch P pumps as the EPA test was tough and very expensive and Bosch only spends about 5 minutes on the bench calibrating them. If an injection shop spends an hour or so to calibrate the pumps, each cylinder will get exactly the same amount of fuel as the next one so you get a smoother idle and each cylinder will be timed exactly right. The return valve is usually on the engine block side of the pump. Good to replace it as the spring loaded ball valve gets tiny channels worn in it. On lots of Bosch pumps, the lift pump is bolted on the side of the main pump. A good shop will know just how much fuel to add to keep emissions down and the power up. These pumps will outlast even a good engine 3 to 1. You can see why some CUPS injection owners round file their injection systems and go Bosch P pumps. Just trouble free, year after year.

In those days, the guys I worked with had a mechanical Bosch test bench. Set it for a certain RPM and it would fill glass beakers until a certain number of revolutions were made and then the tester would move the pump and each cylinder could be measured for fuel. Now, it's all electronic so pump testing is fast and even more accurate. Installing the pump back on the engine and timing it is a bit of an art so best to have someone with experience do it. I never like the little pipe you fitted to the pump to watch the drops but would use an air gun to blow off the excess fuel and then VERY slowly rotate the engine until I could with a bright light and glasses, detect fuel coming up at the exact right degree mark.

On the link above, it's important to replace all the copper sealing rings on the delivery valve holders in the photo. If they leak at 3000 psi, the engine won't idle or run right. In the photo of the P7100 pump, you can see a round recess at the far end. This is where some installations have the lift pump installed. The injection pump then is bolted to a "timer" with springs and weights. It changes the injection timing as the RPM changes. It's 2 or three inches thick and has a ramp on the far end to operate a vacuum pump that may be installed depending on the vehicle. Diesels don't have butterflies so don't develop any vacuum for power brakes or any other vacuum operated device.

In most installations (but not all), Bosch P pumps usually need either a vacuum or solenoid to shut off the fuel so even with no electrical system, they will continue to run as long as they have fuel. Not so on a rotary pump like on a VW Rabbit.

On our Ford/IH 7.3 mechanical turbo engine, the supplier did a great job fitting the turbo and getting the fuel right. It really flew especially coupled to the 5 speed Getrag manual trans in our 29 foot SOB. The RV is long gone but the engine and trans are under a tarp on the back forty. No Bosch P pump but the rotary pump was OK.

Pierce

Re: 300 vs. 330 on a 1996 8.3 Cummins?

Reply #24 – February 07, 2020, 12:28:41 pm

My C8.3 is a late 97 engine, 325 hp factory and specified for fire truck and rv applications. All mechanical. Wonder what is different from 300hp models. It also has the single thermostat.

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