Roof cracks

Topic: Roof cracks (Read 3877 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #25 – February 07, 2020, 09:54:37 pm

Quote from: John S – February 07, 2020, 12:07:00 pm

I had my roof done at extreme and temp coat added. They ground out the cracks in two days the sanded it and applied the temp coat and baked it in the booth. It was not that expensive. A few coach bucks if I remember. It was nowhere near the 20 I saw quoted above.

John 2 things. 1... Your repair is not the same as re fiberglassing the entire roof.
And 2nd, I did say it was a WAG.. 🤑
May not 20k, but since that is what they charge to paint a coach, I bet it would be close.
My last sailboat was known to have issues with the aluminum fuel tank located in the bilge. One way to fix it was to cut a hole in the hull, remove the tank, and reglass. It was very expensive fix.
But there are always a way . I was able to get the tank out another way and spent only the cost of the tank to repair it.
Reglassing the roof could get quite expensive if you did the entire roof.
Just as in painting, the cost is in the labor, not the materials. But epoxy and glass cost bucks.
But as I said, there are other ways to fix it.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #26 – February 07, 2020, 10:47:31 pm

I would take all fittings off the roof then sand it completely with a belt sander carefully, clean it up and use a fine mesh glass matting and then roll a couple of layers of resin mixture all over. Of course tape and prep so no runs go down the sides etc. 2 layers should be fine then lightly sand and use a good paint for glass. That will fix any issue and not too much time to do, maybe 2 days work. Put back all equipment and you are done.
Really is simple . I would not bother if the finish is not factory smooth as no one will see it anyway.
JohnH

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #27 – February 08, 2020, 10:31:24 am

Quote from: Bob and Julie – February 07, 2020, 09:54:37 pm

Reglassing the roof could get quite expensive if you did the entire roof.
Just as in painting, the cost is in the labor, not the materials. But epoxy and glass cost bucks.
But as I said, there are other ways to fix it.

This is a company I'm planning on ordering from soon.

Fiberglass , Epoxy , Composites, Carbon Fiber - U.S. Composites, Inc.

I'm in favor of John Haygarth's suggestion to add another layer of fiberglass to the roof.

What is that sticky sealant that Foretravel used?

The Siata is down to a Carelo turn signal housing, the M4 tap is on order, and a horn. So I'm laying out my projects on our U225, and high on the list is my fuel bay door.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #28 – February 08, 2020, 10:53:40 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – February 07, 2020, 10:47:31 pm

I would take all fittings off the roof then sand it completely with a belt sander carefully, clean it up and use a fine mesh glass matting and then roll a couple of layers of resin mixture all over. Of course tape and prep so no runs go down the sides etc. 2 layers should be fine then lightly sand and use a good paint for glass. That will fix any issue and not too much time to do, maybe 2 days work. Put back all equipment and you are done.
Really is simple . I would not bother if the finish is not factory smooth as no one will see it anyway.
JohnH

John,

Good advise and I agree with just about everything you mention but if there is much Dicor on the roof fitting, vents, skylight, and the rails, it takes forever to remove it just to get at the screws. It took me several days with a heat gun, knife to get most of the Dicor off plus all the screws are Phillips head so you have to heat each screw, tap the driver down in the recess making dead sure you don't round the corners off. Then, it's a 2 day job with a belt sander. Start with an initial epoxy resin coat, followed by the glass cloth, and repeated several times until there is at least 1/16" of material, better 1/8". Use a plastic squeegee to get the bubbles out and excess epoxy resin between coats. I like epoxy as it's pretty odorless, easy to get off your hands and only costs a little more. It's stronger, does not shrink like polyester, etc. Buy in gallons off ebay. Laminating resin, not table top resin! gallon epoxy laminating resin | eBay

$1000 should buy all the materials.

Please read the West System before deciding polyester vs epoxy resin at: WEST SYSTEM Epoxy vs. Polyester for Fiberglass Boat Repair - Epoxyworks

I would suggest letting it cure for several days before painting.

When all suggestions failed on a cracked black water tank, I repaired the tank with fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin. Perfect repair that lasted until I junked the SOB.

Pierce

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #29 – February 08, 2020, 12:28:23 pm

I sent off pictures to Extreme and to Jason at Marine Clean and will talk to both again early next week.

James and his father both worked at Foretravel in the past. Evidently his father was the supervisor of all exterior work for many years. Jason said he worked on fiberglass for several years and for 3 years specifically did roof repairs at FOT so he knows the inside and out of how they are built. He eased my concerns a bit saying that all gel coat will age out over time with UV exposure. Cracking like this is not unheard of and should be limited to the gel coat on top and likely not a problem with the underlying fiberglass.

I've worked with West 105 epoxy before and have some in the garage. I will dig into the one open crack today and check the status below and then glass epoxy patch. I will also tap survey the entire roof to check for any delamination. As has been recommended, I think a new layer of fiberglass will be required as I expect the cracks that are visible now are only the start. It's repairable and can be made stronger than new. I'll evaluate whether I do it my self based on what I hear back. 6 days of driving, fuel for 3200 miles, do I need to leave it and fly back and forth, etc.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #30 – February 08, 2020, 01:44:03 pm

At Xtreme you can stay in coach or their free apartment on site depending on Repairs needed

Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #31 – February 08, 2020, 09:43:48 pm

I would go with a name brand epoxy over a no named eBay any day. West systems, total boat, Mas epoxy, would be at the top of my list. You'll pay more for those versus a no-name brand but you get what you pay for. Also you'll pay a lot more for epoxy versus polyester resin but the epoxy is a much better product.
I'm in the process of taking out one of the fans to replace it and notice that the fiberglass coating on the roof is very thin. I didn't measure it with the calipers yet but it's probably just several millimeters at best. Has been said a couple layers of glass would do it, if that's what you indeed would have to do.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #32 – February 08, 2020, 11:19:25 pm

We have many fine cracks emanating from any roof penetration as well. The cracks have increased since we began fulltiming two years ago. Extreme looked at it last year and said it was from heat and cooling stress. Repair cost estimated to be between five and six thousand. Rance suggested I cover each crack with Dicor until I am ready to do a more permanent repair.

I tend to like John Haygarths idea regarding mesh and resin over the entire roof.

I have heard this problem of fine cracks is most common on 2002 and newer coaches.

I am still uncertain as to what is most reasonable for me to do. As with many of us, money is not unlimited.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #33 – February 08, 2020, 11:48:20 pm

West does make an excellent product. I've used it several times. They are more expensive but I expect a lot is the advertising they do. I bought a two part gallon from a chemical supply house and have been using it on the rear quarter work. It seems much like the West epoxy I have with the same smell, cleanup, etc. It seems to cure about the same. The cost is about the same as polyester resin. Granted, I'm not an expert and I can't give a long term report but I'm pleased so far.

This is like the resin I purchased: Epoxy Kit, Fast Curing, Thin, Laminating, 40 oz Kit + Free 4-1 Pumps | eBay I bought the medium fast variety but with the roof, probably the slow variety would give time to wet the area,lay the cloth out, wet it again and squeegee it out before it goes off. They get good reviews. The no name epoxy resin I used on our ABS black water tank years was still suck like glue years later on. Nothing else would stick for long. I just cleaned and sanded the surface, brushed a coat of resin on then added the cloth and more resin and cloth over about a 10 inch area on the corner where the big crack was.

I do have a nice Ohaus Triple Beam scale so I zero out the scale with a cup on it, follow the mix ratio exactly and then stir for a minute or so.

Laminating epoxy resin is not clear. Table top epoxy resin is.

I can't see driving the coach any distance for a repair as this is not rocket science or anything close. A good surf board guy could do an outstanding job. If you did want to take a short trip from SoCal, Peñasco is not far away and you could take advantage of inexpensive labor plus have a vacation.

Pierce

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #34 – February 09, 2020, 12:03:57 am

Ok, I am going to be home in bc Canada after a short trip to Nova Scotia around the months of July and August so if you want to come there then I will help you do it and my labour is free.
This is not worth all the postings to repair and if it makes you feel any more confident I will charge you just $3000 Canadian
We gave full hook ups etc
JohnH

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #35 – February 09, 2020, 09:12:56 am

In the grand scheme of things it's not that big a deal. These roofs were laid up in a mold, they weren't glassed in place. What they do is, in a female mold, gel coat is first sprayed. Then your laminates are wet out with resin and placed in the mold. The tricky part here, is it's possible the gel coat was thin, improperly catalyzed, lots of judgment calls involved in doing this work back in the day when the coach was built. Nowadays, production fiberglass is a more mechanized, technical process in a factory.

To me it looks like the source of much of the cracking is from rusting screws expanding in skylights, metal patches. But at this point probably best to do as Xtreme says, use cheap caulk and stop water intrusion. That's a bigger problem.

Then do exactly as John Haygarth recommended. That's a recommendation for a premium, permanent fix. There would be probably less than $1K in materials involved, and you'll end up with a new roof. Can also be a new non skid roof.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #36 – February 09, 2020, 10:03:45 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – February 09, 2020, 12:03:57 am

I will charge you just $3000 Canadian

How much is that in real money?

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #37 – February 09, 2020, 10:20:05 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 09, 2020, 10:03:45 am

How much is that in real money?

Do you mean Swiss Franc?

2,204.43 Swiss Franc

P

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #38 – February 09, 2020, 08:55:07 pm

The cracking is definitely caused by water leaking through the screws holding the fixtures. I took out the sky light over the shower and there was clear evidence that water and dirt was penetrating past the butyl caulking and from the screws. I resealed it for now with new butyl tape. I will have to go through all the roof penetrations.

I also ground out 2 of the cracks that were partially opened. I wet them out with West 105 epoxy and filled with thickened epoxy paste. It had 15 hours to set prior to rain today.

So lesson learned. Inspect and replace caulking before it goes bad.

So my plan from here will be:
1. Lift and reseal all roof penetrations. Use penetrating epoxy on all screw holes.
2. Grind and epoxy all cracks
3. Sand and lay fiberglass on entire roof
4. Paint roof

If it were summer I would try to do it all in one step. For now I will try to do 1 & 2 ASAP and follow up with 3 & 4 in a few months. Unfortunately that means removing all roof fixtures twice but I think the most critical is stopping any further water damage. So far nothing has reached the interior.

John H, I really appreciate the offer of assistance up at your place. Hopefully I will have taken care of it by then. BC is definitely a place we would like to visit.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #39 – February 10, 2020, 07:32:57 am

Sounds like a good plan. Update us please when it's done and your experiences with this.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #40 – February 10, 2020, 11:28:01 am

Not a problem and glad you have started on the job.
As a side note, I have mentioned over the years numerous times that every owner should check out ALL screw holes periodically as these things work loose over time. That and the fact the roof is probably the main place to check on a regular basis due to it being so important for keeping the bones of a coach dry. Many owners have problems getting up on roof so should have someone do it for them, and that someone should know what they are looking for.
Any trim strips are also a known leaking point, and I go over every joint and screw a few times a year, hence our coach is sealed and dry and I know of any possible upcoming areas to take apart and fix before any damage is done.
While we are on this subject I feel some members are not being proactive to stop future problems inside bays. What I am alluding to is that many pictures posted to show what they have done or fixed etc also show an unkempt and dirty, oily, messy storage floor that if you have a leak or problem going on you would never know. Keeping those floors clean and dry is important as the framework etc below it is vital part of the construction of our coaches. Inspect, inspect every part on a regular basis and it will give back and save you many coach bucks.
JohnH

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #41 – February 10, 2020, 11:39:09 am

Yes. Expecting zero leaks from 20+ year old caulking is not reasonable.

In addition to "through roof openings", I removed all coach to front and rear cap screws, replaced with stainless steel and bedded in a good polysulfide. Critical for the front, good for the back. If a hole was wallowed out fill hole with marine-tex, redrill and new screw.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #42 – February 10, 2020, 01:13:20 pm

Bpal,
The skylight is where my problem began.
If the roof is solid then working on the cracks is ok.
But if it's starting to feel soft ( any give when you step on it ) filling the cracks will not solve your problem in the future. It will just be a waste of time. Bad plywood under the fiberglass will only get worse ( softer ) when you walk on it more cracks will appear.
If a soft area isn't to big I would put a grease
fitting in the middle of it. Drill a few more holes around it out near the edge of the delamination and use a grease gun full of gorilla glue and pump until it starts to come out one of the holes. Install another fitting to block that hole and continue to pump glue in until it starts to flow out of the other drilled holes. When done the gorilla glue will expand and push up so you will need to use something( remove the fittings then thin plywood with a parting agent ) and a few two by fours over that with weight on each end to hold it down to the height on either side of the repair. Fill and touch up the holes.
Complete the job by sealing up where the water got in.
I did a delamination repair with a similar method below my refrigerator vent like this. Rock solid when done.
My roof delamination was to advanced to repair this way. Some wood had to be replaced.
Any place a hole has been drilled through the fiberglass for a screw the opportunity for a leak and delamination is there.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #43 – February 15, 2020, 11:18:29 pm

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Excellent presentation video.

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Re: Roof cracks

Reply #44 – February 15, 2020, 11:42:45 pm

Quote from: Travelin' Man – February 05, 2020, 09:46:45 pm

Xtreme will grind out the cracks to accept fiberglass cloth and resin, then paint with a sand additive.

Yup, had them do ours (repairing what Crappy World damaged).. The sand grit is not noticeable until you are on the roof in the rain..

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #45 – February 16, 2020, 07:43:28 am

What happens if you have an antenna go bad and needs replacing? Or anything on your roof that might need to be replaced. Also, what about hail damage? How might they handle that?

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #46 – February 16, 2020, 01:23:32 pm

Quote from: pugmom – February 16, 2020, 07:43:28 am

What happens if you have an antenna go bad and needs replacing? Or anything on your roof that might need to be replaced. Also, what about hail damage? How might they handle that?

The website says they offer a lifetime transferable warranty on materials and labor. They can handle wood replacement, vents and skylights.

Any subsequent damage would probably be a separate issue handled by your insurance company. I do like the fact that the transferable warranty on the roof would add some value to your coach if selling it. Here's an article from Trailer Life Magazine that explains what they do.

https://rvroofarmor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/RV-Armor-Tough-Skin-Brochure.pdf

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #47 – February 16, 2020, 09:25:11 pm

Lifetime warranties are only good if the company offering them is still in business and they still have installation in your area.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #48 – February 26, 2020, 12:18:47 am

I'm making good progress grinding out and epoxy filling the cracks. Here is a picture where I remove the old tv antenna area cover plate and patched the holes and radiating cracks. I cut Baltic birch plywood circles, coated them with epoxy and then glassed them in. In this picture I had just skimmed a second coat of filler epoxy. The entry point for the tv cable I am remaking out of a much thicker aluminum plate in place of the approx 18ga wavy aluminum that was there before. I haven't decided yet whether I will have to add a layer of fiberglass on the whole roof.

I'm still doing research on what paint to use.

Re: Roof cracks

Reply #49 – February 26, 2020, 01:50:49 am

Bruce. When you say fiberglass are you referring to the fiber glass cloth with polyester resin or using the cloth with the epoxy? The polyester resin is great for new parts but I would use the epoxy for repairs. Laying up a layer of cloth with the epoxy is very strong and there are many different types of fiberglass cloth all with different thickness and directional characteristics. You shouldn't need anything fancy. In boats with fiberglass repairs we always covered in gelcoat finish which is of the fiberglass polyester resin class. You would have to use a vapor barrier over it to keep it out of the air to promote proper catalyzed cure. After several days it can be sanded and polished like the original. Too much work for a roof in my opinion to use gelcoat. I'd lay up a layer of bidirectional mat with epoxy. Sand smooth and shoot it with a catalyzed polyurethane enamel. Were you using fiber in the west epoxy? If that's the west marine epoxy it's a great product. Looks good. I HATE doing glass repairs. Doing a over lay over the cracked area will really help stop the cracks from printing thru in the future. Again looks good.
Scott

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