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Topic: Retarder won't shut cruise off (Read 573 times) previous topic - next topic

Retarder won't shut cruise off

When I put the retarder on when it is in cruise a lot of the time it won't take it out of cruise. It is hit or miss. When it doesn't take it
out of cruise it hit the brake and out it comes. I got drawings from Foretravel right after I got the coach and I didn't get A5346 and
A5412 they might help. I think I might have a loose connection some where. Any ideas.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #1 –
Cruise trips off when seeing ground through the brake lights circuit (brake lights on).  I read somewhere that this is programmable in the Allison controller as to when and if the brake lights come on with retarder??? so every coach may not be the same?  On my coach it takes a two or more clicks of retarder for a second or two before cruise trips.  Experiment with yours and you'll find out which level of retarder turns on the brake lights and trips the cruise.  Woody.
2001 4010 U320 build #5865 "Bluto-d-Bus" since 09/18
2006 Honda Element ESP Toad
Full timing since 2016 in Western MT
Copilot: Sitka
1975 GMC 260 Avion: sold

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #2 –
Not sure how it's done but a popular mod for owners was to have the retarder not kick the cruise off.  My cruise works with the retarder.  One of my favorite things.  I think the brake lights do come on when the retarder comes on.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #3 –
On our coach, when the retarder is selected it does not actually activate if the engine/transmission is under load, eg: going up hill or against the wind.  Once the coach is "coasting" the retarding force activates and the brake lights come on which in turn disengages the cruise control. 

Jan & Richard Witt
1999 U-320  36ft WTFE
Build Number: 5478 Motorcade: 16599
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited w/Air Force One
Jan: NO5U, Richard:KA5RIW
The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #4 –
By putting 'retarder on', assume you mean putting the joy-stick in one of the 6-on positions?

Turning on retarder does not activate retard if throttle is not at zero. 

We often drive the freeways with cruise control AND joy stick on 2-4 setting, resulting on no-retard while the cruise is keeping the throttle active.

And when highway goes down a hill, even a small hill, coach speeds up & cruise throttle goes to zero (like foot off throttle) and THEN retard activates.  And IF retarding causes brake lights to turn on, cruise control will be turned off and stay off at that moment.

IF retard does not turn on brake lights, at bottom of highway hill, when MPH drops below cruise control set point, cruise will then force activate throttle, which turns retard off.

So when retard is switched on, transmission retarder will ONLY activate if foot or cruise control is OFF throttle.

Some have put a manual switch on the retard wire that turns brake light to prevent cruise control drop off.

Hope this answers why things operate the way the do.

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #5 –
All of you have given me lots to think and experiment about. I'm up at Whistler now and I'm skiing till noon and will try the suggestions on the way home tomorrow afternoon.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #6 –
Big advantage in my and many customers mind to be able to use the retarder automatically.  I use this sometimes to not speed.  Retarder comes on and tugs me back to my cruise settings.  How much retardation is dependent on the control sticks position.

I did the same thing for my Beaver Marquis 3176 customers.  I had the  the rear axle 55mph era  gear sets changed and had Cat customer preference software installed after the sale and the coaches jake would come on on cruise control.  2,4 or 6 cylinder selection was on the drivers sidewall next to his or her elbow.

Customers loved it.  Both heels in front of the drivers seat up and down interstate 6% grades at 37,000 pounds combined and 8.25mpg.

Beavers had a hollow area in the sidewall next to the drivers left arm allowing the jake control to be run into the wall.

Thought about a jake for my m11 but the non hollow side wall would take some getting around for the panel placement the Beaver used.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #7 –
Got home and now I know how it operates I'm not having any trouble. When it worked I was going downhill so the throttle was
closed and when it didn't work I was on the flat or going up hill. Thanks for the feed back now I know how it is supposed to work
and there are no problems. I am looking for a used jake brake to install this spring. In the winter so far the warmest I got the
retarder was 210. This Friday we are going to a place called Rogers Pass and on the way there are some long steep grades. As it's
winter I don't think we will have any heat problems, but in the summer I could see me having to slow down or cook the retarder.
I let you know how the retarder handles on the long steep grades.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #8 –
Quote from: oldguy –
, but in the summer I could see me having to slow down or cook the retarder.

Your 4060R has a built in anti-driver foul up mode built in. In other words if you start to overheat the transmission fluid the transmission ECM will start shedding the retarder load. Or said another way you will start loosing the retarder effectiveness no matter how far you engage the retarder rheostat.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #9 –
Warning light come on at 250.  Load shedding at 300.  Rv owners are way over cautious.  I run mine harder than most here with zero issues.  230-235 after long downgrades.  As Wolfe and others mentioned here downshift the trans and rev the motor down hill.  Increases cooling and the engine braking helps hold the coach back.

I have had a resonator installed and I think a jake brake might be fairly loud inside.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #10 –
Good to know that I can't over heat the trans, but wouldn't want to have to use the brakes. I don't use my brakes even in my car
to keep the speed on hills.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Retarder won't shut cruise off

Reply #11 –
I alternate between strong braking at times during a retarded long downhill and the retarder.  When the retarder gets to the high 230's I will turn it off and switch to hard braking.  When the trans temp drops to 210 or so I will use it again.  It have run long runs  at 230's without issues. 

If I told you you can run similar coolant temps would you believe me? You can.

Possible exception to that  is the 6v92 coaches...
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4