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Topic: front six pack (Read 974 times) previous topic - next topic

front six pack

my front brake air tank continues to lose air, and when parked, within 30 minutes
the front drivers side has dropped down onto the tire.  i have replaced both check valves
and both protection valves and stopped all the little leaks . i think the leak must be in
the six pack. i am not going to rebuild the solenoids, i am going to replace them.
my question is are all the solenoids on the six pack the same?  ie: part number rap 1940.
the guy at northwest rv supply tells me the two travel solenoids are a different
part number with a larger orifice. is this true?
any other speculation as to where the air could be going would be appreciated.
thanks

Re: front six pack

Reply #1 –
Quote from: wayne m –

any other speculation as to where the air could be going would be appreciated.
thanks

Can you safely check under the coach with soapy water?  That would rule out an external leak on the six pack and lines going to it.

If you can check it and determine that there is a leak where the solenoid valve screws in, it's a few $ just to replace the o-rings vs over $100 per solenoid valve (so over $600 per six pack) to replace the solenoid valves.  Our leveling system problem  The most common leak points are the o-rings, followed by worn valve seats in the valves themselves.

If you do opt to replace, consider rebuilding the take-offs to carry as spares OR sell/freecycle them in the classifieds for others who might want to rebuild and carry spares.

How old are the air bags and have you leak checked the driver's side front?  The one time we had a leak that significant it was a fitting at an airbag (brand new air bag that FOT had just installed, yet refused to check when we pointed out the problem showing up right after they did the work).

There are some recent reports of the manifold itself developing problems.  HWH Six Pack Manifold Corrosion Repair
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: front six pack

Reply #2 –
Quote from: wayne m –
I am not going to rebuild the solenoids, i am going to replace them.
my question is are all the solenoids on the six pack the same?  ie: part number rap 1940.
the guy at northwest rv supply tells me the two travel solenoids are a different
part number with a larger orifice. is this true?
Wayne,

To the best of my knowledge, the solenoid valves on the front 6-pack are all exactly the same.  The only HWH solenoid valves with larger orifices that I am aware of are located on the tag axle control manifold on coaches with a tag axle.  The orifice in those valves is larger to allow more rapid air flow (quicker response).

Replica HWH Plungers Redux  (Photos in Reply #28)

You must remove the solenoid valves from the 6-pack manifold whether you replace them with new valves or rebuild them.  The rebuild process is very simple - you just take the valve apart, replace a few O-rings and parts, put it back together.  The kits sold by Tom McCloud contain everything needed to do the rebuild, including the special tool.  You could save a lot of money by going the rebuild route...but that's up to you.

Send Tom a PM if you need any info on the kits.

Replica HWH Plungers Redux  (He had some in stock last month)
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: front six pack

Reply #3 –
i spent yesterday under the coach. i unbolted the six pack and dropped it
down for close inspection, sprayed with bubbly stuff, no air leak.
i don't know why foretravel put the forward airbag air fitting in such an
impossible place, but this morning i will get at it and check there for a leak.
i will save the old solenoids and rebuild them for future problems with the
rear six pack.
we are heading out on a four month road trip in a few days, so hopefully
today i will find the leak.
thanks for the replies

Re: front six pack

Reply #4 –
Quote
it's a few $ just to replace the o-rings vs over $100 per solenoid valve (so over $600 per six pack) to replace the solenoid valves.

Interestingly, it's $634 for a complete assembled manifold (minus the pressure switches).
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: front six pack

Reply #5 –
Wayne mentioned Northwest RV Supply in his initial post.  Just out of curiosity I went to their website to see what they get for a replacement RAP1940 assembly.  Their price ($106) is about what I expected - no surprise there.

http://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/RAP1940.html

What I DID find interesting is the fine print at the bottom of the part listing.  It says:

"These solenoids are new items pulled off of new manifolds. New Surplus..."

So if they are pulling solenoids off new manifolds, what do they do with the leftover bare manifolds?  I looked at their full listing of HWH parts, and I don't see a bare manifold listed there.  They do sell a complete manifold RAP9283 for the no-bargain price of $750 (minus pressure switches).

http://www.nwrvsupply.com/category/158.html

Anyone looking for a new bare front 6-pack manifold might give them a call and see what they have stashed away on their shelves.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: front six pack

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Wayne mentioned Northwest RV Supply in his initial post. 

What I DID find interesting is the fine print at the bottom of the part listing.  It says:

"These solenoids are new items pulled off of new manifolds. New Surplus..."

So if they are pulling solenoids off new manifolds

Wonder where the NOS came from?  Old Country Coach parts (given NRS is in Oregon)?
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: front six pack

Reply #7 –
Quote
They do sell a complete manifold RAP9283 for the no-bargain price of $750

I got mine from Foretravel for $634 shipped directly to me from HWH. I stopped by NW when I was on the hunt hoping to find a better price but Foretravel turned out to have the better deal.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: front six pack

Reply #8 –
Ditto on what jor said.  Inter-granular corrosion has been found on some aluminum manifold blocks.  May be cheaper or about the same to get a complete new manifold, but you will have to reuse the old switches or buy new. 
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt

Re: front six pack

Reply #9 –
NW RV Supply is in Eugene, OR and have warehouses full of surplus parts from Country Coach and Monaco when they closed their plants in Junction City, OR.

When we were there about 6 years ago they had 2 warehouses full of stuff. It was pretty fun just walking around looking at all the parts. Some real oddball stuff. Last time we were there about 4 years ago they only had one warehouse. Still lots of oddball stuff.

There is a chance they have the manifolds. It might be worth a call if anyone needs one.

see ya
ken
The selected media item is not currently available.ken & dori hathaway & Big Agnes
🍺1992 U300 GrandVilla WTBI #4150 FOT FBP 2011
✨6V-92TA DDEC Parlor Coach 350HP Series 92
🏁2011 Nissan XTerra Pro-4X

Re: front six pack

Reply #10 –
as i said before, i have replaced front protection and check valves. and now i
have replaced solenoids on front six pack. there are absolutely no detectable
air leaks under the front end. when parked the coach no longer slumps over,
and stays in the position it was parked in.
however after 1 hour both tanks are down to 60 psi.  could a leaking ride
height valve be the cause? where the heck is the air going?

Re: front six pack

Reply #11 –
My air drops to 60 lbs also in an hour or two and then holds. We have been parked for 4 days now and the air pressure is 35 lbs in
one tank and 40 in the other. When I get home I will get serious about finding it. I will watch to see what you find and will post
what I find.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: front six pack

Reply #12 –
Quote from: wayne m –
...where the heck is the air going?
Hang around this Forum long enough, and you will find that your question (above) ranks right up there with "Why are we here?" or "What is the meaning of life?".

In other words, nobody really knows the complete answer...although many theories abound.

If you ever figure it out once and for all, let us know....PLEASE!
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: front six pack

Reply #13 –
Quote from: wayne m –
where the heck is the air going?


Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
If you ever figure it out once and for all, let us know....PLEASE!

Ahhhh.... The Atmosphere  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FkmfmwKlQ
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: front six pack

Reply #14 –
Wayne,
If the coach maintains level when parked then no air is getting out of the airbags indicating all HWH solenoid valves are working well and no air is getting past the closed travel solenoids to the ride height valve.
Also air lines from the HWH manifold and the airbags are tight.
Looks like you HWH air system is fairly tight.
So likely the coach air system.
Door step system, step well slide system, parking brake valve, air throttle?
Could be several small leaks that add up and are hard to find.
You will find it eventually.
You should be able to hear a single
leak that big. If you can't find it that way maybe just live with it until you can instead of spending all the time trying to make the system perfect.
John Duld
1995 U320C SE 40'

Re: front six pack

Reply #15 –
Before you replace the solenoids I suggest you take everything apart and check the manifold for delamination. That is the issue that I found. HWH milled a new one for me and it fixed all my leak issues.
1993 U300 40ft GV SE
Build # 4344

Re: front six pack

Reply #16 –
Or you can do as many of us and finally admit that you'll never find that or those pesky leaks!
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320