Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Topic: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap (Read 1119 times) previous topic - next topic

Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

March 02, 2020, 01:32:30 am

Well, cheap in the eye of the beholder.

The Rocore floating bundle replacement trans cooler for our original 3-1279B fixed bundle is 5-7027B. I couldn't find one at a distressed price, so I looked for alternatives. I found several Rocore Code 37 floating bundle coolers on ebay, of the correct capacity, but wrong configuration. My solution was to buy one with the correct center section and machine the end caps to make it work. Upon delivery, I measured the end caps to determine the raw materials needed...Ouch! almost what I paid for the cooler. That prompted me to call Rocore to see if I could buy the correct end caps. (Thanks to Sven for providing excellent information on his cooler replacement) Yes, they will sell the end caps

This project just became a lot easier (and less expensive) since, now, all I have to do is bolt on the correct end caps. (Rocore calls them bonnets) Total outlay for our new cooler (NOS cooler and new bonnets) is $804 fiat, sans shipping and tribute.

For those that might be interested, see the information, below:

Following is Rocore's Quotation for the end caps:
Quotation No. Q20-0131-1,CM

P/N: 1001785 End Cap
Unit Price: $89.00

P/N: 1001779 End Cap
Unit Price: $135.00

Lead Time: 3 days to ship from receipt of order
FOB: Burkesville, KY 42717
Payment Terms: Credit Card ($30.00 processing fee applies to all credit card transactions)

Please contact me to place an order. Thank you for your interest in Rocore products.
Regards,
Cindi Montgomery
Customer Service Mgr.
2401 Directors Row, Suite R
Indianapolis, IN 46241
Office: 317-227-2929 Ext 1026
Fx: 317-227-2939
E-mail: cynthia.montgomery@kelvion.com
Rocore® Heat Exchangers and Thermal Transfer Products - Rocore

The NOS cooler I bought. (Sister is still available. Make an offer) Rocore 5-7025B Shell and Tube Oil Cooler | eBay

Used coolers that should be able to convert: MCI ALLISON B500 TRANSMISSION OIL COOLER - ROCORE - TESTED PART#5-7041B | eBay

Notes:
Each end requires a different bonnet. (Note the 2 part #s in the quote, above)
I didn't buy new O-rings for the bonnets, since the item I bought is NOS. Buy new O-rings at your discretion.
If I were to buy a used cooler for the conversion, I would replace all of the O-rings, including the ones that seal the bundle to the tube.
The floating bundle cooler is about 1/2" longer than the original cooler on our coach. This will not be an issue. YMMV
Convertible coolers will be 25" long minimum, and have -20 (1.625-12 ORB) oil ports. It doesn't matter if the cooler is a double coolant pass, since the conversion to 3" port, single pass, is handled by the bonnet swap.

Rocore coolers that should convert to a 5-7027B with a bonnet swap:
5-7006B (Verify)
5-7024B (Verify. This appears to have identical specs as 5-7027B. Maybe I missed something?)
5-7025B (Verified with Rocore engineering)
5-7041B (Verify)

I'll document the conversion in the next few weeks.
The install will be documented when we have some down time... April looks good. I want to make sure I have plenty of time, as this will be part of a total cooling system inspect/repair, including fan motors, T-stat, wax capsule controller, coolant flush/change, and other unrelated items that this will present a good opportunity.

Greg

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #1 – March 02, 2020, 08:34:18 am

That's some great info and sourcing. Thanks for putting it out there. Were you able to catch cooler failure in time?

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #2 – March 02, 2020, 09:40:50 am

Chuck,
Ours hasn't failed....yet, so this is a proactive replacement. We have 3 short trips before I get to it, and I'll take it easy on retarder use until then.

Greg

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #3 – July 31, 2020, 04:40:05 pm

Update:

"the next few weeks" turned into the next 5 months

Hey, I got sidetracked. At least most of that was working on our coach.
The bonnets were an easy swap. I did use the existing O-rings, as they still had over .020" compression. The drain plug I added. Now it's ready to install, after I get done with the fan motors. I'll get some more pics when it's installed ....in the next few weeks

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #4 – July 31, 2020, 08:05:20 pm

The latest big rigs use air to ATF coolers. No chance of mixing coolant with ATF. Check Mobile Hydraulic Oil Cooler, 0-60 GPM, 20HP; Model OC-62 Replaces Cool-line C-18

Pierce

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #5 – July 31, 2020, 08:23:50 pm

I like the idea of just retrofitting with a new model. I'll bet my large diesel mechanics could figure that out for me.

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #6 – July 31, 2020, 08:43:08 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 31, 2020, 08:05:20 pm

The latest big rigs use air to ATF coolers. No chance of mixing coolant with ATF. Check Mobile Hydraulic Oil Cooler, 0-60 GPM, 20HP; Model OC-62 Replaces Cool-line C-18

Pierce

One would have to be alert to retarder use, as max operating temp is 250 degrees F,

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #7 – July 31, 2020, 08:53:35 pm

The new Freightliners with the DD13 and DT12 use air transcoolers. They do all have Jakes but sizing with a cooling fan should be compatible with the retarder.

Don't retarders have a temp warning light?

Pierce

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #8 – July 31, 2020, 08:56:33 pm

There is no place to mount an air hydraulic cooler on my 320. I bought one of the floating ones posted at the beginning of this thread and will install it when time allows.

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #9 – July 31, 2020, 10:00:30 pm

Quote from: craneman – July 31, 2020, 08:56:33 pm

I bought one of the floating ones posted at the beginning of this thread and will install it when time allows.

Excellent! I noticed the sister to mine had sold, not long after this thread was started. Was hoping someone on the forum nabbed it, or one of the MCI ones

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #10 – July 31, 2020, 10:56:42 pm

Pierce's oil air cooler link: Mobile Hydraulic Oil Cooler, 0-60 GPM, 20HP; Model OC-62 Replaces Cool-line C-18

Air cooler looks too small when compared to our large diameter ATF hoses.

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #11 – August 01, 2020, 09:57:01 am

Berry,

I only linked to an example. You would have to contact the company for them to size the transcooler to your transmission and coach. Non-retarder transmissions would take a smaller size than the retarder models. Allison models without lockup would also take a larger cooler.

Fortunately, the day of the torque converter is almost at an end. Detroit's DT-12, Corvette's twin clutch along with Porsche, etc has made the conventional automatic obsolete. Here is a quote: "We have been running the Detroit DT12 behind the DD13 engine now for a couple of years and after getting the driver's accustomed to it they won't drive anything else. It is actually an automated manual trans but I have been very impressed and have been wondering how long until they start to show up in high end coaches but haven't seen or heard of anything yet."

Here is a link to the new 600 hp conversion coach with solar, outside TV and "only" $400,000: 2019 Showhauler Motorhome Conversions 1816 | Performance RV Comes with the DT-12 and Jake.

Pierce

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #12 – August 01, 2020, 10:30:33 am

I see those haulers at the NHRA Winter Nationals Pulling their cars.

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #13 – August 01, 2020, 11:37:30 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – August 01, 2020, 09:57:01 am

Fortunately, the day of the torque converter is almost at an end. Detroit's DT-12, Corvette's twin clutch along with Porsche, etc has made the conventional automatic obsolete. Here is a quote: "We have been running the Detroit DT12 behind the DD13 engine now for a couple of years and after getting the driver's accustomed to it they won't drive anything else. It is actually an automated manual trans but I have been very impressed and have been wondering how long until they start to show up in high end coaches but haven't seen or heard of anything yet."

Pierce

Our Honda Pioneer 1000 SXS has a dual clutch, six spreed, tranny. Ratios 1-3-5 are on the main clutch, 2-4-6 on the second one. It works quite well, and the reduced parasitic drag is very noticeable in both, a seat of the pants freer feel, and fuel mileage. I haven't verified fuel mileage, but it's definitely better than our Polaris Sportsman 700 EFI quad with, Comet style, variable pitch belt drive "torque converter". It takes a fair amount of horsepower to turn that belt.

Greg

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #14 – August 01, 2020, 12:59:25 pm

Greg,

Do you do the shifting? Is it sequential or can you skip gears?

I was impressed how the DT-12 skip shifts with a light load or heading downhill. All without any input from the driver and you don't feel it. GPS can be activated and works with the trans computer to program the grade ahead for gears depending on the weight/load. Also selects gears and Jake for the downhill part. I think this is how the trucks in testing in both Europe and here are going to do it without drivers. Wonder if it senses a flat tire?

Nice to have the computer monitor the altitude, temperature, load, etc and combine all of it to keep EGTs down and mileage up. Not much of a learning curve. I remember the first Prius I drove. I saw the start button but kept looking for the key so I could turn it to start.

Pierce

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #15 – August 01, 2020, 04:27:34 pm

Pierce,

It's not that sophisticated. ...sequential auto mode, performance mode (higher revs before upshifting), and manual mode (paddle shifters, just like the F1 guys)

The DT-12 sound's like quite the piece of engineering.

Greg

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #16 – August 01, 2020, 05:30:11 pm

Hi Pierce,

You have opened my mind to something I never heard of, that is Dual Clutch transmission.

After a couple of Google hits, I am on board. Have no idea how long Dual Clutch trannys have been in vehicles.

Thanks for your informative reply,

Barry

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #17 – August 01, 2020, 06:22:35 pm

Eaton Discontinues Procision Dual-Clutch Transmission - Equipment - Trucking...

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #18 – August 01, 2020, 06:44:18 pm

Berry,

My eyes get opened every day to something new. I expect a lot of the development came from racing where quick shifts were needed. My Kawasaki 500 was quick enough so that you could not use the clutch if you were in a hurry, just roll off on the 1/8 turn throttle for a hundredth of a second and hit the toe shift and there was a hesitation only a slow motion camera could see.

Then I was introduced to the Spicer crashbox in fire trucks and our ex-Greyhound bus. You had to patiently wait for the revs to drop and watch the tach to make a clean shift where there was no "crashing" noise. And our bus didn't have a tach so it was really guess work. Cold shifts were faster, warm shifts were slower, uphill shifts slow, downhill shifts faster.

You can quickly see how RV automatics became so popular. GMs, Eagles, Prevosts, Wanderlodges, etc were undriveable by most before the Allison came along. Allison along with Detroit Diesel, EMD, etc. was a part of GM for many years. A lot of racers back in the "50s installed the "Hydramatic" as it was rugged and didn't waste any time shifting. I remember first gear was really low. I'm sure racers here remember it well.

So, now the transmissions have progressed to the point where the manual transmission don't have a clutch pedals, just launch control. But just as quickly as they have matured, the electric car with max torque at zero RPM is about to dominate the scene.

Below is an almost stock Porsche Turbo S in a 8.443 second 169 mph quarter mile run. 1.7 second to 60, a little over 5 seconds to 130 mph. Imagine how fast it's shifting!!! I can't believe what I am seeing. All without much fuss or noise.

Porsche 911 Turbo S Does 0-60 In 1.87 Seconds, Quarter Mile In 8.47

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #19 – August 01, 2020, 07:16:51 pm

Quote from: craneman – August 01, 2020, 06:22:35 pm

Eaton Discontinues Procision Dual-Clutch Transmission - Equipment - Trucking...

Lots of work needed to get all the thousands of items correct to get it to work right and last. Mercedes built the MBZ-Detroit DT-12 back in 2013 and kept it in Europe for several years before bringing it to the states. While trucking in Europe can be a little demanding, it's nothing compared to the requirements here in the U.S. The high temperatures and long grades quickly eliminate the weak.

While I never worked for MBZ, I did business with a lot of their salespeople/mechanics at the dealership in Lueg in Essen. They were able to get the top engineers/workers in the world by treating everyone really well. A 28% discount on new cars that they only had to keep for one year. 6 weeks vacation, home mortgage help, etc. This is the big reason they have been able to stay on top for such a long time.

Here is a good site to review four of the auto/manual shift automatics. Not only do they review the DT-12 but the Eaton, Mack, Volvo I-shift as well. I've driven Mack trucks from those made in the war years (no chrome) to later models. They were absolutely first rate in quality. A bit more expensive but worth it. Sorry to see bidding eliminate them and allow cheaper quality trucks to supply fire apparatus.
Detroit DT12 automated-manual transmission | Commercial Carrier Journal

I did see one of the big fleet operators average 7.5 mpg over 100,000 miles. Check the weight they were pulling in the article.

Pierce

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #20 – August 22, 2020, 01:12:06 am

The floating bundle cooler is installed on our coach. To get it mounted in the correct position to work, without having to make changes to the coolant lines, I cut a relief in the rear cooler bracket. The relief is 1-3/4" top to bottom, and 3/4" wide. (First pic), I also modified the rearmost fan mounting leg (Second and third pic). The ends of the floating bundle cooler are larger than the original and this was done to allow the mounting location about an inch further forward than would otherwise be possible. Our cooler is mounted with the oil ports rotated about 30 degrees up from horizontal. I've seen some coaches have the cooler with the ports horizontal. If that were the case, the rear cooler bracket wouldn't need the relief, and the modification to the rear fan mounting leg would be much simpler.

Overall, the installation went well. The cooler bracket and fan leg were modified off the coach. The rear fan arm could be removed without having to remove the rear fan assembly.

Greg

Re: Rocore Floating Bundle Trans Cooler On the Cheap

Reply #21 – August 22, 2020, 01:15:49 am

Saved me some time when I will put mine on, thanks

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