1996 cargo door fell off

Topic: 1996 cargo door fell off (Read 1225 times) previous topic - next topic

1996 cargo door fell off

March 10, 2020, 02:26:21 pm

Hi gang, it had to happen sooner or later . Just not sure of the collective fix.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #1 – March 10, 2020, 02:33:13 pm

There are a couple of shoulder bolts that attach the top of the hinge structure to the coach frame. They are easy to replace, but sometimes a little hard to find. I bought my last ones from a Ace Hardware in Cottonwood, AZ.

You can likely find them at most larger hardware stores that carry a good selection of fasteners.

I keep a couple of spares now.

Edit: Yeah on closer review, you don't have the bus style door. Maybe, I need to look a little closer next time.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #2 – March 10, 2020, 02:39:32 pm

It looks like all the rivets tore out of the fiberglass door.

I would epoxy a aluminum strip as a backing plate on the torn out area of the door edge.
Drill out all the old rivets on the hinge.
Drill new holes through the new backing plate on the door.
Install new rivets to secure the hinge to the door.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #3 – March 10, 2020, 02:44:39 pm

Tom,
The fiberglass has become brittle. remove the Phillips screws from the trim piece covering the top hinge....you will also need to cut the sealant that is holding the trim on at the top and bottom of trim.
just pull the trim far enough away to access the screws in the top hinge that is still attached to the coach....
once you have it off for access, you can use "PANEL BOND" or a similar product.
you can also use a 1/4 bolt,nut,and washer rather than panel bond.....its an easy fix.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #4 – March 10, 2020, 03:25:40 pm

Years ago, my cargo doors started falling off, because the hinge area was not strong enough.
I reinforced the hinge area at the top of the door using fibreglass cloth, resin, 3/16 hardwood dowls, and they have worked well for almost ten years.
I am not confident that bonding aluminum to the fibreglass would hold, perhaps others could comment on that.
To obtain a good bond, the original fibreglass must be washed with acetone until it starts to get sticky.

I used short 1/4 inch stainless bolts which can be re-tightened rather than rivets which will loosen over time.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #5 – March 10, 2020, 04:33:47 pm

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – March 10, 2020, 03:25:40 pm

I am not confident that bonding aluminum to the fibreglass would hold, perhaps others could comment on that.
To obtain a good bond, the original fibreglass must be washed with acetone until it starts to get sticky.

Me neither. Getting a good bond to aluminum requires removal of any oxidation prior to bonding. Since aluminum starts oxidizing immediately upon exposure to atmosphere, a controlled environment would be needed from the time the aluminum is cleaned, until the bonding is done. The bond could be done immediately after cleaning, but may still be less than ideal.

I would, also, be concerned about bonding to the fiberglass door lip. The bond would only be to the gelcoat, or resin (if the gelcoat was removed), not the structural fiberglass.

IMO, a mechanical attachment would be best. The reason the factory rivet attachment fails is due to the high concentration of stress in the fiberglass around the rivets. Repeated loading/unloading causes the fiberglass to fatigue, over time, and fail.

My solution is to make a stainless steel backing strip to go inside the lip, opposite the hinge, and use stainless pop rivets. The backing strip spreads the load over a much wider area than backup washers. My solution doesn't have the test of time that Wyatt's has... I only did this to one door, last year. I'll post a couple pics later today.

Greg

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #6 – March 10, 2020, 05:28:30 pm

Greg, you did a much better job describing what I was envisioning with a stainless backing plate instead of aluminum.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #7 – March 11, 2020, 12:55:28 am

Here's a couple pics of my hinge repair. Not pretty, but, so far, it works well.

Parts used (McMaster Carr #s):
304 Stainless Steel Bar, 1/8" Thick, 1/2" Wide, Hot Rolled. #8992K113
Washer for Blind Rivets, 18-8 Stainless Steel, for 3/16" Rivet Diameter, 0.192" ID, 0.375" OD #90183A315
18-8 Stainless Steel Blind Rivets, Domed Head, 3/16" Diameter, for 0.251"-0.375" Material Thickness #97525A505

Notes:
The rivets listed are what I used. The length was marginal. I suggest, and for future repairs will use, 1/8" longer rivets.
These rivets are very strong. Due to the rivet gun I have, installing from the inside, as the original rivets were installed, put a lot of stress on the door lip because the head of the gun, contacting the inner door panel, forced the rivet to pull-up at a slight angle. Also, I had an issue with the shank starting to pull through the backing strip, so I installed from the outside with the washer under the head of the rivet, and did not try to "pop" the rivet shank. Instead, I left the shank in the rivet, removed the gun, and ground off the proud shank. The pulling through problem may have been due to me chamferring the rivet holes in the backing strip?
The SS bar is actually sheared from sheet stock. This worked well, as the bar has two radius edges, opposite from each other. I placed the radius to fit in the fillet radii of the inner door panel. The opposite radius gives a little more clearance for the gasket when closing the door.
Before attaching the hinge to the door, check the clearance between the hinge and door gasket. If it rubs, consider trimming the width of the hinge leaf that attaches to the door for more clearance; much easier to do before the door is attached to the hinge.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #8 – March 11, 2020, 10:05:45 am

Quote from: Saltfevr – March 10, 2020, 02:26:21 pm

Hi gang, it had to happen sooner or later . Just not sure of the collective fix.

I see from your photo that piano hinge is standing out. Just how stiff is that hinge?

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #9 – March 11, 2020, 11:15:55 am

Toolmaker,
The hinge moves ok, alot of dirt after 25yrs. However hinge will stay straight out by itself.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #10 – March 11, 2020, 01:16:02 pm

Quote from: Saltfevr – March 11, 2020, 11:15:55 am

Toolmaker,
The hinge moves ok, alot of dirt after 25yrs. However hinge will stay straight out by itself.

Sooner, rather than later I'm going to try my hand at laying up a new fuel door for our U225, and I'd been wondering about that hinge attachment.

Just the same, I'm oiling all of my piano hinges today.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #11 – March 13, 2020, 01:57:50 pm

Appreciate the replies and pics.
I've got 1/8" x1/2" stainless bar and 1/4"x5/8"long cap screws and nylocks and,washer.
Question is: seeing all oe holes ripped thru, do i still use those original holes, , or attempt new ones next to oe holes? Thanks

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #12 – March 13, 2020, 02:01:14 pm

If you have the fiberglass sandwiched between the hinge and the strap you can use the original holes or make new ones, it shouldn't matter.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #13 – March 13, 2020, 02:03:07 pm

Tom,

With the nylock nuts, you do not need the lock washer.

As far as OE holes or new ones, really depends on placement of the ss backing piece/bar. Very likely you can use the same holes. The support for the door would go from ss backing piece/bar to the hinge with the fiberglass merely being "clamped" in place.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #14 – March 13, 2020, 04:16:33 pm

Quote from: craneman – March 13, 2020, 02:01:14 pm

If you have the fiberglass sandwiched between the hinge and the strap you can use the original holes or make new ones, it shouldn't matter.

If the original holes in the fiberglass has ripped out then you should add a few new holes. I tried simply sandwiching the fiberglass door between the hinge and an aluminum strip and the door eventually slid out of position.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #15 – March 13, 2020, 04:18:37 pm

David,

Agree. If all holes in the FG are destroyed to the degree that they do not prevent side to side movement of the door, indeed one or two new bolts/rivets would secure it side to side.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #16 – March 13, 2020, 05:05:50 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – March 13, 2020, 04:18:37 pm

David,

Agree. If all holes in the FG are destroyed to the degree that they do not prevent side to side movement of the door, indeed one or two new bolts/rivets would secure it side to side.

In my case there wasn't an issue with side-to-side movement but in-and-out movement was caused by the gas strut pressure when the door was raised.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #17 – March 13, 2020, 08:11:25 pm

Another quick question .pretty much alone, but possibly another neighbor could help.

Is it easier to hold cargo door in full open position,then try to bolt it on, laying drilled 48inch strap right over door torn holes .like a huge washer.
OR remove body horizontal mldg, then piano hinge , and try to reinstall hinge with repaired door intact?
Just trying to find the easy answer. Lol
Thanks

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #18 – March 13, 2020, 08:53:34 pm

Quote from: Saltfevr – March 13, 2020, 08:11:25 pm

Is it easier to hold cargo door in full open position,then try to bolt it on, laying drilled 48inch strap right over door torn holes .like a huge washer.
OR remove body horizontal mldg, then piano hinge , and try to reinstall hinge with repaired door intact?

It is a lot easier to just hold the cargo door in in fully (or mostly) open position and bolt it on.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #19 – March 13, 2020, 09:14:57 pm

Quote from: Saltfevr – March 13, 2020, 01:57:50 pm

Appreciate the replies and pics.
I've got 1/8" x1/2" stainless bar and 1/4"x5/8"long cap screws and nylocks and,washer.
Question is: seeing all oe holes ripped thru, do i still use those original holes, , or attempt new ones next to oe holes? Thanks

Have you considered buying a fiberglass repair kit, ruining a pair of good shears cutting glass cloth, and laying new fiberglass over that edge? Then drilling new holes? And using the long washer you bought?

Regarding your other question, one way or the other you will be installing bolts with the door in position. Find or make a table to support the door while you work.

I'd rather work alone.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #20 – March 13, 2020, 09:19:50 pm

I had this problem several years ago with a larger cargo door. The problem is that the gas struts put a lot of pressure on the door at the corner rivets causing cracks at the rivet or a piece of the door to break away. After that happens more cracks and broken pieces appear at the next rivets. I didn't wait for the door to fall off, I removed it and repaired the cracked places with cloth and resin. Had to re-gel coat some of it. Not an easy job. I had a sheet metal company bend a piece of 1 3/8" wide long thin (3/64" but probably has a gauge #) stainless steel not quite to a 90 degree angle (83 degrees) and used that as a backing for small screws and nuts rather than rivets and to provide added support. It looks like a piece of angle although the bend down the middle of the strip is a bit rounded rather than sharp. The bent metal adds a lot of strength to the door.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #21 – March 14, 2020, 09:28:47 am

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – March 13, 2020, 09:19:50 pm

I had a sheet metal company bend a piece of 1 3/8" wide long thin (3/64" but probably has a gauge #) stainless steel not quite to a 90 degree angle (83 degrees) and used that as a backing for small screws and nuts rather than rivets and to provide added support.

Did you fiberglass your stainless steel into the door itself?

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #22 – March 14, 2020, 05:51:29 pm

No, i uses jb marine weld kit. Letting it set for 24 hours.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #23 – March 16, 2020, 06:38:56 pm

Wanted to update and thank you all.
I used 2 stainless straps, one between hinge and fiberglass, and another outside underneath the 13 nylocks. Yes, the door is 1/8" inch lower now.
The left latch grabs, but right wont for now.
As you know ,there is in and out latch pin slide adjustment, but NOT up and down.

As most projects, it was more than I thought.
Lol .So the wet bay door is useable. I swapped in old weak strut shocks, which needs a prop, But just being cautious.

Re: 1996 cargo door fell off

Reply #24 – March 16, 2020, 08:01:57 pm

Congratulations!

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