Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Topic: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born (Read 1873 times) previous topic - next topic

Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

April 25, 2020, 08:35:09 pm

Since we have decided to keep our coach I decided - Hey why not spend thousand of dollars more...

I've ordered a Victron Mulitiplus, 4 Battle Born Group 31s, new Cerbo GX, new GX Touch Screen. I also have a Progressive EMS-HW50C that I will install.

Inquiring minds want to know...

1. Does keeping the Power Watch meter from 1934 make any sense now?
2. Should the Progressive be installed after the shore power? I had intended to install it behind the wet bay panel above the dump valves with the remote on that panel above the new See Level panel. It is super easy to grab the main line coming in there. Does it make more sense to install it after the switch so it monitors both shore power and gen power?
3. Where have you mounted the Victron? Upside down on its back in the old Freedom 25 spot?

Thank you all in advance. It's great having so much help to spend money...

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #1 – April 25, 2020, 08:39:17 pm

Don't throw the power watch meter away.
I'm sure some one would want it.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #2 – April 25, 2020, 09:15:20 pm

Be careful how you mount your Victron Mulitiplus. In the owner's manual I believe it specifies how it must be mounted. My Victron had to be mounted vertically for proper air flow for cooling. Yours could be different being a newer model than mine but be sure to check.

Good luck, sounds like you are building a nice system!

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #3 – April 25, 2020, 10:55:44 pm

Since our Progressive Industries EMS protected main breaker panel from a failing generator voltage regulator AND displayed the very high voltage on the EMS monitor panel, we choose after transfer switch.

Years later, hearing about the possibility of high shore power damaging transfer switch and then backfeeding the voltage to generator, we installed a 2^nd EMS on the shore cable before the transfer switch.

We still think the after transfer switch location covers more anomalies that are more likely to happen. We do love the inside monitor panel with its reporting AC amps, volts & frequency from EACH leg of 50-amp, even more important when connecting coach to 30 or 20 amp shore power pedestal.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #4 – April 26, 2020, 12:21:54 am

"Coastalbuilder", and anyone installing an EMS, you might check out the following thread, it really helped me when I installed mine. I am so thankful for Barry and Cindy's recommendation for placement of EMS to protect from both shore and generator power issues.

I also have the park post Hughes PWD50-EPO Power Watchdog smart bluetooth surge protector with emergency power off, auto shutoff, that will protect the wiring in front of ATS, and ATS from faulty voltage from the shore post to my onboard Progessive EMS.

By installing the EMS on the cable between the transfer switch and the main breaker panel, you are not only protected from high or low voltage from the shore pedestal, you also are protected from high or low voltage from the generator. An issue here can destroy your upstream appliances just as quick as shore power to your tv, microwave, residential refrigerator, inverter/chargers, cpap machine, fans, etc. that run on 120V. Many have documented not only the danger from shore power issues, but also from generator power going bad.

I repeat, if you only put your EMS protection at your 120V input, such as at the wet bay or shore power post, you are unprotected from run away voltage from your generator.

See reply #6 from Barry & Cindy
Install Progressive Industries EMS-LCHW50

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Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #5 – April 26, 2020, 03:03:05 am

My victron multiplus is in the bathroom cabinet where the washer dryer was. My color control is next the refrigerator. My EMS will be mounted in the wet bay before my manual transfer switch.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #6 – April 26, 2020, 09:31:47 am

Here is what I did with my BB batteries. Adding disconnect switches in the battery bay is convenient and safe. I added a fuse here as well.

600 AH Lithium Battery Installation

The only change was to a 60 amp Sterling Battery to Battery charger from the 120 amp. Victron makes a nice one too but smaller. With 4 BB this is a better size for that capacity as well. I added a switch and a delay timer to the ignition power wire to the B2B. There are times when I want the ign on but don't want it to start up and I want a sufficient delay before it starts (more than the built-in delay) to get the engine started. Thus is important if you have solar or other charge sources for the start batteries.

This is where I installed the Victron Multiplus, color CCGX controls and more. The Multiplus is on the forward wall of the main bay on the passengers side where the old inverter was, close to the white panel that covers all the big 12v wiring.

A Second House Battery Bank, Solar Panels, 2 New Inverters

I remade the panel in the cabinet to hold the control, the Victron BMVs added two digital voltmeters to monitor voltage on each leg and later added the B2B monitor and controller. The panel has handles and is mounted with velcro to make service easy. Your original panel will quickly find a new home.

I put the progressive display in the closet in the bathroom. I only need to see it if I need to see it. I added a second display in the wet bay as well.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #7 – April 26, 2020, 05:48:40 pm

Was so glad I listened to Barry & Cindy's recommendation on installing our Progressive system. It protects both the shore and gen issues and it save our bacon, when the gen regulator went bananas and could have fried all our electronics! Thank you again, Barry & Cindy!

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #8 – April 26, 2020, 07:40:58 pm

Quote from: Bob and Julie – April 26, 2020, 03:03:05 am

My victron multiplus is in the bathroom cabinet where the washer dryer was. My color control is next the refrigerator. My EMS will be mounted in the wet bay before my manual transfer switch.

Have you checked with AM Solar, or previous owner, to see if you have any EMS protection? I am surprised in such an expensive system, professionaly installed by AM Solar, there is not already an EMS, if nothing else, to protect the Multiplus.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #9 – April 26, 2020, 10:34:06 pm

Previous owner had a small plug-in between the shore power cord in the coach. That was all. I bought a 50 amp progressive industries unit but haven't installed it yet. Was going to put it in between my manual transfer switch and the circuit breaker box to cover both Genny and shore but will use it to connect my new 50 amp reel and the coach.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #10 – April 26, 2020, 11:27:09 pm

Quote from: Bob and Julie – April 26, 2020, 10:34:06 pm

Was going to put it in between my manual transfer switch and the circuit breaker box to cover both Genny and shore but will use it to connect my new 50 amp reel and the coach.

Why? Do you not have a fear of high voltage from your generator, or do you plan to never use your generator again?

Since you have the ability to protect against both gen and shore with the one unit you have, from Progressive, why give up one of the two sources you can protect from?

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #11 – April 27, 2020, 02:26:26 am

Good question Jack. Mostly I am more concerned about the shore power issue than the generator. Plus It would serve as a good way to connect the new power cord reel with the existing power cord going to the transfer switch.
Might put one in line with the generator output later. If I did it would be next to the generator.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #12 – April 27, 2020, 08:08:23 am

Quote from: Bob and Julie – April 27, 2020, 02:26:26 am

......Plus It would serve as a good way to connect the new power cord reel with the existing power cord going to the transfer switch. ......

Now, I understand your reasoning for putting one there. You might also consider the following Hughes EMS for that.

I wish I had placed a Hughes EMS unit there. Instead, for my own reasons, I went with the same as the following Hughes unit, only in a portable model. I also have the Progressive EMS unit below my bed, between the ATS and the circuit breaker box, protecting against both gen and shore power, and doubling the amount of joules protection against surge.

For me it is much easier monitoring voltage, with a glance at my cell phone from the Hughes EMS, than glancing at the Progressive readout.

I suggest the following to use as your junction box for your cord reel. It accomplishes what you want, has bigger and user replaceable surge protection board, bluetooth readout of voltage to phone, etc. This would then allow you to place the Progressive unit where you want. If you choose to put the Progressive EMS between the ATS and the circuit breaker panel, then the the Hughes unit would also double the amount of joules surge protection in your rv, and help protect your Progressive unit against failure form surge, and protect you against both source issues.

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Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #13 – April 27, 2020, 09:35:05 am

Jack I heard about this unit soon after I purchased the Progressive one. Would have prefered this one by Hughes. Maybe next year....

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #14 – April 27, 2020, 09:57:37 pm

Quote from: valento – April 25, 2020, 09:15:20 pm

Be careful how you mount your Victron Mulitiplus. In the owner's manual I believe it specifies how it must be mounted. My Victron had to be mounted vertically for proper air flow for cooling. Yours could be different being a newer model than mine but be sure to check.

Good luck, sounds like you are building a nice system!

True, I have 2 rigs with Victron Multiplus units (freaking best out there IMHO), just follow the guidelines. I have a 3000 in the Foretravel Vertical replacing the old Xantrax like for like, and in the new Van build a 2000 in a horizontal position.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #15 – May 16, 2020, 05:15:16 pm

So after way too much thinking I am ready to start. Could someone put an eyeball on this and see if I am missing anything? Sorry it's not the greatest drawing as I was playing around with some online software.
I plan to mount the Multiplus (vertical) on the curbside bulkhead in the basement area behind the propane tank. I think the original cables will reach across there from the old Xantrex location. I have racks built for a total of 6 BattleBorns to go in teh battery compartment. I only have 4 to put in right now. I'm not sure where to mount the BMV 712 Smart display. There are too many wires coming out of it to snake them all up to the area I plan to put the new GX Touch 50 so maybe in the battery compartment since in theory the Touch will show me everything (and the Smart is bluetooth).
Thank you a million in advance.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #16 – May 16, 2020, 05:44:10 pm

Let the smarties chime in, but my recollection is everything has to pass through the shunt. It looks like the multiplus is parallel with the ground cable.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #17 – May 16, 2020, 05:48:32 pm

Quote from: craneman – May 16, 2020, 05:44:10 pm

Let the smarties chime in, but my recollection is everything has to pass through the shunt. It looks like the multiplus is parallel with the ground cable.

Negative to the shunt then loads on the other side.. it needs to read all the loads so it has to be the first thing off the battery neg cable.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #18 – May 16, 2020, 05:50:41 pm

Yup, anything that doesn't go through the shunt "didn't happen" or at least did not register. Wait, that sounds like Las Vegas???

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #19 – May 17, 2020, 09:14:28 am

Thank you all. Here is try #2. And getting a tad better with the software. Any other issues you see? And I can remove the Power Watch correct? I also plan to install my Progressive Industries unit under the bed after the ATS. I may add two more Battle Borns later. I may also add solar and the starter battery and alternator connections later as well.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #20 – May 17, 2020, 11:15:13 am

Looks OK to me. I would suggest putting the BMV inside. Maybe you can read all of the data on your phone but maybe adjusting setting would be easier inside. Maybe you can adjust all of the settings from your phone.

The big fuse behind the white panel (in my coach) ia a 400 amp fuse. I added another fuse just after the switch big enough for the high current possible from six BBs. Bigger than the 400 amp OEM fuse. Slightly different protections for different sub systems.

I also added bus bars to which each battery connects both plus and minus. And consider a switch on the negative side between the bus bar and the shunt as well. If you need to disconnect batteries you can just open the switch.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #21 – May 17, 2020, 11:24:35 am

Because of the li-ion batteries ability to output extreme amounts of current if shorted somehow using as much marine fire retardant cabling as possible would seem a good safety idea? Batteries to inverter comes to mind for sure,

Not sure if li-ion batteries work the same as std batteries but to equalize normal batteries use having the batteries cabling being the same length from each terminal to a central block of some kind for both the positive and negative circuits was a way to have every battery in the bank to be used load wise the same. Versus the end batteries putting out more work?

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #22 – May 23, 2020, 05:33:55 pm

After a couple back and forth with Justin at Bay Marine this is the final drawing.

But I thought the OEM cable was 3/0 from what I read but I just started looking to get ready to install and the OEM cable is all 2/0. The fuse behind the OEM white panel is a 300AMP fuse. I could add an additional 2/0 cable for + and - from the OEM panel to the new Victron. And then I could change the 2/0 from the batteries to the OEM panel to 4/0 or add another 2/0 cable but I don't have much more room on the studs in the OEM panel. The other jumper cables on the OEM panel are 2/0 and the cables running back to the BOOST module for the starter batteries is 2/0. What is the downside of just leaving all the 2/0 cable in place?

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #23 – May 23, 2020, 05:37:28 pm

None. Other than it's not fire retardant.

Re: Power Watch, Progressive, Victron, Battle Born

Reply #24 – May 23, 2020, 05:50:52 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – May 23, 2020, 05:37:28 pm

None. Other than it's not fire retardant.

You keep mentioning fire retardant when asking about adding components, especially cables. All the old OEM cables run around, next and through a bunch of stuff that is also not fire retardant. The batteries sit in a compartment next to a fill cap with almost 200 gallons of diesel fuel. All the OEM stuff is bolted to a wall that is next to all your stored items. Tons of electrical system components are under the bed in a wood box. And I have a diesel burner directly under my coach. If the coach has not had a fire in 21 years how will new cables cause a fire? I am respectfully asking my friend.

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