Transmission Problem - Need Advice

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Transmission Problem - Need Advice

April 28, 2020, 12:11:10 pm

All,

I was driving my 1994 Grandvilla U280 in Houston Sunday. I stopped to rest, and when I got back in the vehicle to leave, the transmission would not go into gear. I tried for over an hour.

Symptoms: Pressing the "D" or "R" buttons would just produce a flashing "D" or "R", and a long steady beep from the transmission controller. I tried many combinations of things. RPMs were at 600, suggesting that wasn't the reason it wouldn't engage (over rev wasn't a problem). I tried the boost to increase voltage - that also wasn't successful. The house and chassis batteries, though, were fully charged before I left, and are all less than one year old, so I have confidence in them. I tried with the generator running. Same result.

Research suggests is could be many different things including the ECU. Weather was warm that day, and I haven't been anywhere cold, so I doubt using a hair dryer on it would make too much difference but I could try.

I had to have the vehicle towed back to my home in south Houston. Fortunately, I'm covered for that on my insurance.

In order to tow it, however, the tow truck driver had to pull the axle from the driver's side rear wheels. After doing some research, this appears to be normal (who knew? - I had to look it up). However, he says one of the wheel lugs (on the vehicle, not the lug nut) is moderately damaged. They could get the lug nut off, but says it probably needs to be re-threaded.

Lots of questions now:

1) The vehicle is parked in front of my home in Houston. I guess the first thing I need to do if find someone who can look at the Allison transmission. It is an MD3060 mated to a mechanical Cummins 8.3. Any suggestions in the Houston area?

2) I have the axle - very oily! I'll need someone to re-install it after the transmission is repaired, and will also need someone to look at that thread on the wheel lug. Also, any suggestions in the Houston area?

As always - thanks to everyone on this board for their help!

Mark

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #1 – April 28, 2020, 12:49:12 pm

Quote from: defendertx – April 28, 2020, 12:11:10 pm

All,
In order to tow it, however, the tow truck driver had to pull the axle from the driver's side rear wheels. After doing some research, this appears to be normal (who knew? - I had to look it up). However, he says one of the wheel lugs (on the vehicle, not the lug nut) is moderately damaged. They could get the lug nut off, but says it probably needs to be re-threaded.

Lots of questions now:

1) The vehicle is parked in front of my home in Houston. I guess the first thing I need to do if find someone who can look at the Allison transmission. It is an MD3060 mated to a mechanical Cummins 8.3. Any suggestions in the Houston area?

2) I have the axle - very oily! I'll need someone to re-install it after the transmission is repaired, and will also need someone to look at that thread on the wheel lug. Also, any suggestions in the Houston area?

As always - thanks to everyone on this board for their help!

Mark

#2. Did the tow truck driver pull the driver's side axle?

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #2 – April 28, 2020, 12:59:47 pm

Both axles should have been removed. How far was the tow? Hopefully the spyder gears turned enough to not damage the transmission.

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #3 – April 28, 2020, 01:21:35 pm

The tow truck driver pulled one axle only - driver's side. He did not pull both axles. The tow was about 45 miles. Any possibility this could have damaged my transmission?

Thanks

Mark

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #4 – April 28, 2020, 01:27:29 pm

Mark, I have sent you a PM.

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #5 – April 28, 2020, 01:45:24 pm

For repair of your ECU/shift pad: Transmission Instruments

That is all John does for a living. In the DFW area.

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #6 – April 28, 2020, 06:11:45 pm

Quote from: defendertx – April 28, 2020, 01:21:35 pm

The tow truck driver pulled one axle only - driver's side. He did not pull both axles. The tow was about 45 miles. Any possibility this could have damaged my transmission?

Thanks

Mark

Don't know. Don't know anything except that the lug nuts on the drivers side have left hand threads.
And unless you have a posi rear end, one axle is enough for a short slow tow.

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #7 – April 28, 2020, 06:49:45 pm

It's usually just the spider gears in the rear end that will be damaged. The reason they sell two hub plates only in pairs is that you need to remove both axles. The spider gears don't have roller bearings but bronze bearings and are only designed to move when you go around a corner so they are not lubricated properly when spun without the ring gear turning. Drag racers spinning the right rear tire can damage them. The problem is that the damage done may not be apparent for quite a while. So, long after the tow truck driver is gone. Just imagine how many revolutions they have made in 45 miles.

After a little argument with another forum member, I called the Spicer headquarters and talked to one of their engineers. He said both axles MUST be pulled, not one. Here is the address for the caps and gaskets. You will notice that they are only sold in pairs. Price List Cheap insurance against damage plus they keep the oil from making a mess.

Pierce

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #8 – April 28, 2020, 07:53:39 pm

Craneman added a bit to my spider gear explanation. Depending on the resistance of the spider gears, the driveshaft may still spin and could damage the transmission output bearing because of lack of lubrication. Had not though of that.

Hats off to Chuck.

Pierce

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #9 – April 28, 2020, 09:14:43 pm

All - thank you very much for the insight. I an Allison repair tech coming to the house on Thursday to have a look. He asked me over the phone to do some simple diagnostics on the shifter, and it came back with no error codes. He says that tells him a great deal about where to start looking (not at the shifter), and instead, spoke about a few other things it could be. He said the MD3060 is his favorite transmission because it is easy to diagnose and fix. I'm looking forward to the conversation with him and will ask him about the spider gear, second axle, and whether I might need to replace the spider gear now that it was towed. I'll also ask about the potential for any other damage. Once I have more insight, I'll report back what he found.

The adventure continues!

Mark

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #10 – April 28, 2020, 10:04:23 pm

Assume he asked you to check for diagnostic codes using the shift pad. Were you able to perform that function, given the issues you are experiencing? Were there any-- if so what?

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #11 – April 28, 2020, 11:26:23 pm

Yes - he asked me to push the "up" and "down" arrows simultaneously, and then read the resulting code back to him. The code was "d 1", which he says means there are no errors. That is how he concluded the problem was probably somewhere else.

Since I've not read yet about how the diagnostics for the shifter works, I can only take him at his word, but now I'm really curious about what diagnostic codes can be represented this way and what they all mean. It sounds like something I should print out and have handy in the coach for future reference.

Mark

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #12 – April 29, 2020, 05:32:19 am

Defendertx,
What was the air pressure readings when you experienced the flashing R & D ?

Have you tried to move the coach since it was towed home?
If so, same result?

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #13 – April 29, 2020, 10:34:36 am

Yes, an Allison diagnostic code of d-1 followed by a - - DOES mean there are no diagnostic codes stored in the Allison ECU. Were there codes it would show d-1 followed by two digit codes.

EVERYONE with the Allison electronic transmission needs to know how to check for codes. Not a bad idea to do it a couple of times a year.

From the driver's seat:

Ignition ON engine OFF

Push up and down arrows at the same time. On older units that will bring up d-1 and the first of any stored codes. On newer units that will bring up OL (oil level). Merely push the up and down arrows again at the same time to get to d-1.

If there is a d-1, copy down the numbers to look up in your Allison owners manual or on their on-line site. Then push the mode button to scroll to d-2. repeat until you get d- "whatever" and - -.

When you are finished, just turn off the ignition. You are finished and the ECU is back to its normal operation (yes, assuming there is not some failure keeping it from working).

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #14 – April 29, 2020, 10:46:33 am

Allison codes: Allison Transmission 3000/4000 series fault code list | Truckmanualshub.com

P

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #15 – April 29, 2020, 11:13:13 am

I've gone through this problem for over two years in a Dynasty, some time it would work some times it wouldn't. Allison tech said
it's a safety lookout, RPM to high or too low, jacks down or anything the manufacture added. There is a wire that goes from the
positive post on the chassis battery that goes to the EUC that I would check. I don't think that is your problem but it's worth a check.

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #16 – April 29, 2020, 11:26:41 am

Quote from: oldguy – April 29, 2020, 11:13:13 am

There is a wire that goes from the positive post on the chassis battery that goes to the EUC that I would check. I don't think that is your problem but it's worth a check.

Actually, there are TWO positive wires to the ECU-- one for stored memory and the other for ECU operation/driving that is hot when the ignition is on. Certainly on our 1993 there were two separate fuses in the "under driver's side corner of the lift up dash" labeled as such.

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #17 – April 29, 2020, 04:46:47 pm

Justin and Cathy,

When the problem with the transmission occurred, air pressure was at 110 lbs - which is nominal for my coach.

Thanks

Mark

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #18 – April 29, 2020, 04:53:17 pm

Ran into the same thing, maddening problem. Finally found an old trekmate security system.....which was tied into the transmission interlock. Removing it solved.

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #19 – April 30, 2020, 09:48:03 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 28, 2020, 06:49:45 pm

It's usually just the spider gears in the rear end that will be damaged. The reason they sell two hub plates only in pairs is that you need to remove both axles. The spider gears don't have roller bearings but bronze bearings and are only designed to move when you go around a corner so they are not lubricated properly when spun without the ring gear turning. Drag racers spinning the right rear tire can damage them. The problem is that the damage done may not be apparent for quite a while. So, long after the tow truck driver is gone. Just imagine how many revolutions they have made in 45 miles.

After a little argument with another forum member, I called the Spicer headquarters and talked to one of their engineers. He said both axles MUST be pulled, not one. Here is the address for the caps and gaskets. You will notice that they are only sold in pairs. Price List Cheap insurance against damage plus they keep the oil from making a mess.

Pierce

Anyone know what set I would need to order for my coach? Is it the lug nuts that need to be counted? I have ten lug nuts so would the MR10D be the correct one and does the gaskets come with them?
Thanks
Ron

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #20 – April 30, 2020, 10:01:16 am

I think that is the one but give them a call. No, order the gaskets separately. 410-784-7029 (NEW PHONE NUMBER)

Pierce

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #21 – April 30, 2020, 10:06:27 am

Quote from: rclark – April 30, 2020, 09:48:03 am

Anyone know what set I would need to order for my coach? Is it the lug nuts that need to be counted? I have ten lug nuts so would the MR10D be the correct one and does the gaskets come with them?
Thanks
Ron

Reply #15 should be the one you want

Axle Caps (split from Going down highway and white smoke coming out)

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #22 – April 30, 2020, 10:37:06 am

Quote from: rclark – April 30, 2020, 09:48:03 am

Anyone know what set I would need to order for my coach? Is it the lug nuts that need to be counted? I have ten lug nuts so would the MR10D be the correct one and does the gaskets come with them?
Thanks
Ron

Woke up too early this morning. Count the number of axle nuts and measure across like Craneman's link did.

The post Craneman links to is a coach that used a model MR8D-1 with 8 axle nuts but if you have 10 axle (not lug nuts) nuts, you may take the model MR10D. Call them.

The big chrome cover has to come off to remove the axles. This means removing 5 of the lug nuts (on our 10 lug rear axle) to get the cover out of the way. A torque multiplier may dent the chrome cover so you might try and see how it fits before you actually have to remove it. Tow truck driver will probably have a socket with air gun so not a problem. If you don't have the cover on, you can pull the axles in a couple of minutes with an electric impact on the small nuts. Coach should be level or oil will come out on the low side.

Pierce

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #23 – April 30, 2020, 02:10:09 pm

Changed the rear axle to covers over the hubs center only. Not attached to the lug nuts

Re: Transmission Problem - Need Advice

Reply #24 – April 30, 2020, 03:01:52 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – April 30, 2020, 02:10:09 pm

Changed the rear axle to covers over the hubs center only. Not attached to the lug nuts

Smart! Still have a memory of where you purchased it? I did see this video and with a stainless cover, it looks like an instant on and off. Is this like yours? AMERICAN CHROME 16903 rear stainless steel axle hub cap 7.25" (lot of 2) | eBay
Or: 8" Diameter Rear "Dome" Hubcap - Stainless Steel Rear Hubcaps - Rear Hubcaps...

Video of how they attach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j6sMp4DGfQ

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