Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Topic: Heart interface and new oreillys batt. (Read 900 times) previous topic - next topic

Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

May 08, 2020, 11:43:03 am

Hello all,
i have the original heart 2500 inverter/charger.
I replaced both 10yr old coach batteries agm 8d
Yesterday with 2 from oreillys. Old ones were discharging.
I had blinking battery overload led on remote panel. Heart fan ran all nite. My carbon monoxide ans lp alarm went off about 4a.
I disconnected shore power and turned off salesman switch. Upon opening battery cargo door,both batteries hot and water puddles in tray bottom and thru drain hole onto ground.
All 4 clamps removed.
I called east penn, he said do load test later upon cooling. Volts for both are 12.8. I don't see any case cracks, but can't remove myself.
I've been reading about pure sine vs modified inverter here.
Windows open trying to air green eggs out. Lol

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #1 – May 08, 2020, 11:47:50 am

Tom,

MSW/PSW refers ONLY to the 120 VAC output from the inverter/charger.

It has nothing to do with battery charging.

IMPORTANT: Have you programmed your inverter/charger. Instructions in your Xantrex owners manual and will vary by age of the unit? If questions on this ASK.

After everything is cooled down and programming is verified, reconnect and plug into shore power. Read voltage at the batteries with a digital voltmeter (if you don't have one, get one-- they start under $20 and are a critical piece of equipment).

Voltage (bulk mode which is what the charger start in) should be 13.8-14.2 VDC.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #2 – May 08, 2020, 12:41:17 pm

Gel setting from my prior post, will disable equalization. If set to equalize this might have boiled these batteries. He needs to read manual, monitor dip switch settings, and charge rates as wolf10 said. Again, for others with a Heart 2500, see my previous post in this thread for pdf of Heart 2500 manual.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #3 – May 08, 2020, 01:23:01 pm

Ok I see AGM on them. Good. Not good they boiled over. Obviously.

Equalization cannot be done in non lifeline AGM's as far as I know.

Equalization is normally to restore lost capacity on used batteries

If you set the heart for gels your charging and float voltages will be .2 volts too low?

A 96 heart is not capable of interfacing a required Battery Temp Monitoring System.

In other words unless the batteries are at 77 degrees you are either over or undercharging the batteries.

The heart has warm or cold settings if my memory serves me. But still off.

East penn requires a BTMS charger to be used on their batteries.

My hearts charging rate into 3 batteries was down to 70 amps or so because of the worn "contactors" in the charging section. Pitted points as it were.

You only have two so you may not notice this as much.

Sorry. Never seen agm's boiled before.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #4 – May 08, 2020, 02:52:26 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – May 08, 2020, 01:23:01 pm

......Sorry. Never seen agm's boiled before.

Yes, I've never seen one either, that is what makes me think it is the settings. In the past I saw Heart inverter/chargers only fail to charge, not to go to overcharge voltage.

Sorry, and hope this gets resolved for you easily.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #5 – May 08, 2020, 03:22:21 pm

Thanks for replies. I replaced with the exact same AGMs that were there. 250ah 1450cca.
All cables were labeled and installed correctly.
Yes these are East Penn brand from oreillys that ft owners have used.
I downloaded heart manual, and have dip setting
Pages n my manual . I left 8 dip settings alone.
1 off, 2 on,3on for gel 4 off 5 off,6 off,7 on. 8 off.
Now the not so good news, continuing,
Both batt on digital volunteer show 12.8 v
However on Harbor Freight 100a load tester
One batt drops to 2 Volts. So my fault for not replacing inverter charger, Before purchasing batteries. Let the flogging begin lol.
I see the xantrex 458 2500 modified is $600 less than magnum 2812 pure. I know this is discussed here with many threads.
Just wanted to give quick update

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #6 – May 08, 2020, 04:42:03 pm

No mod. Full only. Warranty?

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #7 – May 08, 2020, 04:53:51 pm

That battery should come with 1 year warranty. What all you go into at the store is up to you.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #8 – May 08, 2020, 07:03:48 pm

After reading the manual for the Heart 2500 several times, and the East Penn recommendations from their guide, I can only recommed a new inverter/charger for use with Oriellys AGM8D made by East Penn.

I can not find a setting that would not do one of the following, either shorten the life of, or reduce the capacity for AGM8D batteries made by East Penn.

I can only reccomend installing a new replacement sine wave inverter/charger, from a reputable manufacturer such as Xantrex, Magnum, or Victron, with proper settings matching the batteries manufacturer.

Choices now start at approximately $700 with remote, for a Xantrex XC2000, and on up. For these reasons it is hard to not include an upgrade to a better charger with a true sine wave inverter.

There is much information on Xantrex, Magnum,
and Victron upgrades on this forum, from myself, as well as many others.

Xantrex Freedom Xc 2000 True Sine Wave Inverter/Charger - 12vdc - 120vac -...

Xantrex Freedom X / Xc Remote Panel W/25' Cable

https://youtu.be/h2Aqa7jqRfQ

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #9 – May 08, 2020, 07:21:16 pm

Eight hours of 13.8 or 14.1 I would think would not boil the batteries.

If set for flooded cell and the eq left on then 15.8 volts would definitely boil them dry after a number of hours.

Setting the charger for gel should not hurt agm's as the eq volt is the absorption voltage.

Live and learn. The warm/cold gel setting is an attempt to lessen the over and under charging without a BTMS.

Hearts past serial number 100,000 had a input for a BTMS. My 97 was lower than 100,000 so I assume his 96 was a lower serial number unless replaced somewhere down the line.

Might look just to see.....

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #10 – May 08, 2020, 07:43:44 pm

Tend to agree with Jack L. I've looked at victron 3000 and magnum 2812. Both pure sine.
Idk if 2 new ats are in order as,well. Its only money. Lol
One victron dealer told me id need to change 2/0 cables from inverter to 4/0. And didnt like the original FT 12/2 romex. Said i need10/2. FT drilled hole in joey bed, bay top, and pushed up somewhere to bdrm breaker area.
Just wondering what you heart 2500w folks upgraded to, without major heartache.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #11 – May 08, 2020, 07:58:22 pm

The Victron Multiplus suggests incoming a cross section area of 12v cable. It has two cable connections for both plus and minus. 2 2/0 cables to both plus and minus has more cross section area than a 4/0. So it easier to just add a second set of 2/0 cables. The 120v wiring is just barely adequate. The multiplus is capable of inverting up to 64 amps. That is why bigger 120v wiring is a good idea and why the 12v side needs to be beefed up as well.

It will work as is, much more performance than what you have. In order to use all it is capable of plan on doing some wiring upgrades.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #12 – May 08, 2020, 09:27:21 pm

Do run marine cabling for fire safety. No Foretravel did not. 20+ years ago.

UL 1427 4/0 is $10 a foot. Tinned wires. Pvc Fire retardant covering. Battery or welding cable are rubber coated and burn and drip off.

How much is your safety worth?

There are two 4/0 sizes. SAE? Is bigger cross section?

Magnum is a good made in USA upgrade. Heavy duty unit. As was the Heart that lasted 24 years and still works

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #13 – May 08, 2020, 10:34:49 pm

Bob, I can find no reference to a UL 1427 spec. Where do you find UL 1427 4/0 cable? Do you have a fire rating comparison study between PVC coated cable and EPDM coated cable?

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #14 – May 08, 2020, 10:42:16 pm

1426? I posted this extensively a while ago. Versus I look to find the fire retardant nature of marine cabling study's again maybe someone can look at my old posts here where I linked to the various pages.

Low smoke. No gases produced when exposed to flames. Not dripping off which allows the bare wires to touch were mentioned.

The pvc does not support flames and stays on the burned wires as a crust.

Rubber burns and falls off. Leaves bare wires.

Sorry for the number. Was doing this from memory.

Here is a amazon link

Amazon.com : 4/0 AWG Marine Wire - Tinned Copper Battery Boat Cable -...

See in the description about pvc fire resistant covering. The EPDM has dangerous smoke when burned

I searched UL 1427 marine and was referred to 1426. Not very hard.

I spent a lot of my time to research the wires and posted the links here before.

I see rv fires on the internet. Makes me wonder about non fire retardant wiring.

Search UL 1426 and there are countless references to fire retardant cabling.

Nothing should be non UL in my opinion.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #15 – May 08, 2020, 10:57:51 pm

My coach came with a new 2812 and with a slight modification to the bracket it fit. The old inverter had the cables twice as long as
they needed to be and were in great shape, so I cut them in half and reused them. My son will use the old inverter. The 120 volt
wires would be nice if the were 10/2 but I don't see me needing any more than 2000 watts so I will be fine. The new controller fit
where the old controller was and I could use the existing wires.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #16 – May 09, 2020, 10:48:10 am

Bob,
UL 1426
Standard for Electrical Cables for Boats

Do you have specific reference to flammability studies for EPDM and PVC coated cables other than anecdotal stories?

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #17 – May 09, 2020, 01:36:23 pm

This is getting to be a lot of work.

STANDARD
UL 1426
UL Listed BC-5W2

INSULATION
This product offers a unique flame retardant polyvinyl chloride compound (VW-1), and is moisture, abrasion, acid, diesel fuel and oil resistant. It is extremely flexible & easy to work with.

From a marine cable seller.

Google search:

It is well known as a rubber with excellent properties [1]. However, EPDM is highly flammable, which restricts its further application and development in some important fields, especially electronic industry.

It can be traced to reduce it flammability.

Boats require pvc coated wiring.

Epdm (rubber) when burned drips off. And produces dangerous gases and smoke.

Navy ships us non smoke wiring that will not support combustion on all new ships.

Anecdotal?

At some point I think you all are on your own on wiring.

I cannot make you want the most safety possible.

Not knowing is one thing. Knowing and doing nothing is a personal decision.

Epdm softens and grows in size around oil and fuels. Plus the flame support and dripping off leaving bare wires to touch each other.

As I said the pvc forms a burned crust and stays on the wires.

Do or do not. Choice is up to everyone here.

Especially any new installations?

You can drag a horse up to the water trough and put his face into the water but he has to suck it up on his own.

Easy search and read. No glaring headlines from EPDM suppliers stating "this burns and is not good around oils and fuels"

A test like in Corian of a piece of whatever you might think of using with a small torch might show if the wiring you might use smokes or supports flames?

Maybe yours is treated? Possible. The gas may be cyanide? Can't remember but it was not good

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #18 – May 09, 2020, 02:26:39 pm

Do you have specific reference to flammability studies for EPDM and PVC coated cables other than anecdotal stories?
Probably not.

Do what makes you happy. That is not what everyone else has to do just because you say so.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #19 – May 09, 2020, 02:43:05 pm

OK, PLEASE, let's get this thread back on track:

Heart interface and new oreillys batteries

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #20 – May 09, 2020, 03:04:53 pm

EPDM (Rubber) burns. My understanding is that It contains halogen. The halogen component when burning produces dangerous gases.

Yours may be different although I doubt it as the reduced flammability wiring probably costs more.

The oil industry does not use rubber wiring because of the swelling from exposure to fuels.

So now I have to furnish a flammability study to support UL 1426?

I posted this several times before here.

You or anyone here does not have to do anything. Why would you?

This forum is for info. If anyone finds it helpful that's great.

Especially POSSIBLE safety improvements

I have no axe to grind.

If I had this info when I ran a Foretravel store 30 years ago I would have changed the wires and showed the prospective customers the safety aspect as a selling point.

My competitors would have hated me. Maybe the same as when I was the first to put solar panels on my lots coaches.

Our lot was first in a one way road. They saw our coaches first. Plant seeds.

Would I run out and buy new wires? Maybe.

But I would probably use pvc wiring on anything new. Me, myself and I.

Getting back to the issue.

The heart will work just needs to be set to warm or cold gel as that disables the equalization function by limiting the max voltage to be the same as the absorption voltage if the eq function turned on by mistake it seems

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #21 – May 09, 2020, 08:19:16 pm

I just noticed two large bumps on my car battery. Had them tested and one came back positive. Hope it's not terminal.

Sorry, Brett.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #22 – May 19, 2020, 07:16:54 pm

Wanted to give new inverter install update. I went with Xantrex sw 2012 2000w inverter/charger. Yes the original 25yo heart interface was 2500w. For my needs as a snow bird,and travel most pedestal to pedestal, this works for me. As you know, you can stack another 2k unit if you wish.
After watching you tube i discovered xantrex makes a cat 5 adapter to use old FT telephone ribbon cable.
Plus the lcd system control panel is nice for $160 more
Fit almost perfect into old heart opening.

Re: Heart interface and new oreillys batt.

Reply #23 – May 19, 2020, 07:31:02 pm

Forgot to mention, i had to mount sideways and drill 4 new bracket holes. Also added 2 extra screws for mounting into aluminum overhead ribs. Considered mounting with AC and D.C. wires facing out, but required 3inch clearance was a no go. Luckily AC romex reached. Oh yeah, for the price, you'd think xantrex would supply 3/4" knock out wire restraints. Nope. Lol

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