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Topic: 1991 U300-- bought it! (Read 9365 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #20 –
Some more pictures.

It seems like no leak under the engine, no crack on the roof.

The interior is not in good shape. It needs some serious deep deep clean. Most of the systems are not functioning. Toilet is super filthy.

It needs serious time and budget to bring it back to good condition.

Recently MOT sold an 1991 Grand Villa for $16500. It is not exactly the same model. But consider the condition difference, it should be about the same value.  It can be used as a reference. $16500-$4000=$12500 to bring the GV to the condition of the MOT GV. It is going to be challenging.

I think the following items needs to be worked on to bring this back to road ready

Deep deep clean
$700
6 Tires
$2000
Fluid Change plus replacing all pipes
$2000
3 x 8D Batteries
$1200
Hot water tank plus labor
$1200
Mattress
$400
Total
$7500
So it is already $7500 without considering fixing the little thing here and there.

Not even sure if you can get 6 tires for $2000, probably needs more money for 6 tires.

Most likely the air bag needs to be replaced, that is easily another $1500

Even if the bus can be purchased for less than $4000, it still needs significant time and budget to restore it.

I think I am gradually talking myself out.

Whoever bought this bus, hope he can come back to the forum and report back on the restoration.

I think it only make sense if

    • have a property to park the bus
    • have the time to work on the bus for extended period of time
    • Have good source for parts
    • Enough budget
    • Big heart :D

Thanks everybody for your reply.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #21 –
Check https://www.ustireoutlet.com/products/ for good prices on tires. I was looking at their GreenMax steer tires. For a little more DoubleCoin has a good reputation and sold lots of places. So, $1200 to $1800 for a set of tires.

I replaced all three start batteries on our U300 Detroit with Duralast 31 series for just over $300 for all of them. Ask for a 10% discount at Autozone. I did and they didn't blink an eye.  House batteries are available on CL reasonably.

Fluid change. OK but what are pipes?

$700 for cleanup??? I bought a Bissell Pro-Heat carpet cleaner but not for $249 but a refurbished unit from Bissell for $118 that appeared to be new. With our dogs, cleaning the carpet after each trip is a must. The Bissell cleans the sofa, headliner, etc and made the original wool carpet look new. So what if the interior is dirty. Your glass has to be half full!

Bottom of the engine looks dry.

As I've said before, we've owned our U300 for eleven years plus and have spent ZERO coach bucks on it with only a couple of airbags and misc stuff needed. This is outside of upgrades we did. If you are not retired, don't have a place close to work on it and pull your CC out a lot, it's not for you.

Yes, I'm a scrounger but learned as a kid how to make champagne out of cheap Thunderbird box wine. Unless you can do the same, you should stay away from an older coach. Lots of others on the forum make lemonade from lemons. Only if the bulkhead and related belly structure is rotten I would look elsewhere, otherwise, I would buy it in a second. Nothing in the photos is a big deal, just mostly your labor to make it a happy camper.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: jiaxinxi –
Whoever bought this bus, hope he can come back to the forum and report back on the restoration.

It sounds like the $4K Detroit powered FT, he was looking at, already sold to someone else.  Sounds like someone may have gotten a good buy, or maybe not. Take this as a learning experience, there will be others.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Jack L –
It sounds like the $4K Detroit powered FT, he was looking at, already sold to someone else.  Sounds like someone may have gotten a good buy, or maybe not. Take this as a learning experience, there will be others.


I don't know if it is sold or not.

You are right, there will be others. I will keep my eye on a little bit later model with proper maintenance. Maybe just from MOT


Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: jiaxinxi –
I don't know if it is sold or not.

You are right, there will be others. I will keep my eye on a little bit later model with proper maintenance. Maybe just from MOT


When we're shopping for a new vehicle, in general we don't purchase the first one we find.  That being said, I rode 4 hours in weather that was colder and wetter than expected to look at my first Foretravel, an FTX.  On the ride home, with time to think, I realized that we needed the under bay storage and a dinette.  But.  Other than that I would have made the seller an offer and the build quality I saw convinced me to set my sights a little higher and reach a little deeper into my pocket.

To the motor coach caravan I passed on the right?  I made it past the police before they had time to deploy their radar, though it was entertaining to watch the nose dive as they tried to stop and turn at the end of the on ramp.  At that point I rode past them at the speed limit.
We're happy.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #25 –
 Assuming  that it runs and airs up.  Check for  rust.  Rust is the deal breaker for this price range. Easy 2-25K for a proper lower rail repair.
No rust , buy it. Put on the cheapest steer tires all around .
Pull the carpeting out, pull out the fridge, install proper flooring.  Find nice seats.  A decent small resi fridge  can be in place for 500$ plus a good inverter.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #26 –
Does anyone run the DD from one battery?  I use only one for my Cat,

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: Protech Racing –
Does anyone run the DD from one battery?  I use only one for my Cat,
When our LaFrance fire trucks were repowered with 8V-71 Detroits, we first switched from 1 to 2 on the Cole-Hersee battery switch (8D battery on each side of the apparatus) every other day but the diesels would hesitate trying to turn over on the single 8D. Normally, the 8-71s would light off in one tenth of a second so when we opened the door to get in the cab to respond, we started going from off to both on the switch, starting the diesels with two 8D batteries. All of this is at sea level in a mild climate.

Foretravel installed three 24 series batteries in our U300. I went to three 31 (2850 CCA) series last year, not because I was having a problem but just in case for winter starts at higher altitudes. The 6V-92TA does not have any starting aids other than the badly placed "block heater" so unless  you are plugged in or run the generator for a long time, starting can be a long process. At 17 degrees, high elevation and snow in Yellowstone, I was able to finally get the engine started but only after melting one of the battery terminals.

Cummins 8.3 liters come with just two 24 series stock on Foretravels. The 9 liter Detroit is just enough bigger that it requires three 24s.

Wanderlodges, Prevost, Eagle, etc all have the correct block heater location down low on the Detroit block behind the AC compressor. Good to install a remote block heater, either electric if you have power or propane for dry campers. I think Ken did on his U300.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #28 –
I just have one 8d in my 92 and has been working fine, I have only had to use the boost switch a few times in cold weather in the teens. When I had an Eagle with a 8/92 I had two 8ds.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #29 –
Typical 8D has about 1400 CCA and a 6V-92TA requires about 950 CCA so one 8D should do the job. Winter at higher elevations with a less than new battery may have problems especially since the Detroits don't have heated screens like Cummins. Foretravel put three 24 series in later U300s just in front of the rear bumper so at 550 to 750 CCA each, there is plenty to crank the Detroit. By replacing the 24 series with 31 series, I have 950 CCA X 3 = 2850 CCA so plenty for winter. And the 31 series were cheaper than the 24 series at Autozone.

Non-turbo Detroits have a 2 point higher compression ratio so require a little more CCAs. As I remember, it's 19 to 1 compared to 17 to 1 for the turbo engines.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #30 –
The 6v92 engine sounds really amazing!

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #31 –
Needs sanity check!

Today, I hired a diesel mechanic to start up the engine. After replacing the 8D battery, 6V92 engine fire right up without any hesitation. It really sounds beautiful. There is very little smoke when starts up. No smoke at all while running.  Can't attach file here. So uploaded to youtube.



However, the engine is the easy part. After the engine starts, there are air leaks on the air bag so the air pressure can not be build. The tire needs to be replaced. All in all, the mechanic give a quote about $7000 to replace the 4 rear air bags, all 6 tires, engine oil, coolant and other small things on the spot.

Is it worth it?

Talked to few friends who don't know much about RV not to mention foretravel, they all think I am crazy. Spending $7K for a 30 year rig. and might be more.

For people who love ForeTravel here, is it worth spending $7K for the chassis maintenance?

How long can Detroit Diesel 6V92 last before next major service?

Right now it is at 130K mile

If it is not fixed, very likely this RV will go to junk yard. I hate seeing it go to junk yard.

Thanks in advance

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #32 –
$3000.00 will buy 6 tires mounted. Paying another $4000.00 for 4 airbags and service seems high. Just my opinion, maybe try some other quotes.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #33 –
Quote from: craneman –
$3000.00 will buy 6 tires mounted. Paying another $4000.00 for 4 airbags and service seems high. Just my opinion, maybe try some other quotes.
Thanks for your quick response.

The challenge right now it that the RV can't move. It has to be serviced on the spot. This limit the choice.
What is the typical cost to change air bag, change engine oil?

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #34 –
Need to have GV members info on replacing airbags. I don't know if they are harder or easier than on the bus chassis so can't estimate. Engine oil and filters should be similar but have never paid for them so no help on cost. Other members will chime in with oil change costs as many have it done.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #35 –
Air bags are easy to change after removing fenders over wheels. Side trim is unscrewed and removed and fenders are then unscrewed . Oil needs to be straight 40wt. I use Chevron Delo 100 40 wt myself. You will have to order it. Do Not Use Multigrade oil! Such as Rotella.  2 stroke Detroit has its own oil spec. I get mine at Oreilly autoparts usually overnight crankcase should hold 6 gallons w filtet. 3 gal to a case.  Part numbers for O'Reilly CHV 100-40-1
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/delo-3205/chemicals---fluids-16461/oil-16865/motor-oil---vehicle-specific-16257/5fb4d14d310a/chevron-delo-conventional-motor-oil-40w-1-gallon/100401/2624304
As far as is it worth it? Thats up to you. Buying a RV is Not an investment it is an expense.
Did you look at the bulkheads? Is this coach near Charlotte NCi would be happy to check it out for you. I own a 91 myself and have ample experience in what does what.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #36 –
Quote from: stump –
Air bags are easy to change after removing fenders over wheels. Side trim is unscrewed and removed and fenders are then unscrewed . Oil needs to be straight 40wt. I use Chevron Delo 100 40 wt myself. You will have to order it. Do Not Use Multigrade oil! Such as Rotella.  2 stroke Detroit has its own oil spec. I get mine at Oreilly autoparts usually overnight crankcase should hold 6 gallons w filtet. 3 gal to a case.  Part numbers for O'Reilly CHV 100-40-1
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/delo-3205/chemicals---fluids-16461/oil-16865/motor-oil---vehicle-specific-16257/5fb4d14d310a/chevron-delo-conventional-motor-oil-40w-1-gallon/100401/2624304
As far as is it worth it? Thats up to you. Buying a RV is Not an investment it is an expense.
Did you look at the bulkheads? Is this coach near Charlotte NCi would be happy to check it out for you. I own a 91 myself and have ample experience in what does what.


Thank you. The coach is not near Charlotte NC. I wish it was. It is near Houston TX.

Any recommended mobile mechanic near Houston area?

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #37 –
Don't know much about air bags other than they are around $100 a piece, can't believe it would be more than 1k to change them. Look up Rudy here, he has a mobile guy for just about anything...

Here is a mobile oil change guy in my area and his  price sheet listed on his web page for reference on lube services...


Edit. I see below you are I the Houston area, so am I and this Mobile guy services out area

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #38 –
As soon as Conti airbags are available cheap again, the cost will be less than $100 each. If you order from China, the price is about $40 so not much of an expense. Tires will cost from $1200 to $1800 a set. Don't get sucked in buying the overpriced brands. That does not sound like $7000 does it? Someone is always trying to get you to spend your money. The difference with what you NEED to spend and $7K is enough to buy a nice toad.

Our U300 has 110,000 miles. Nothing to be done except change oil, air cleaner, plastic fan, check and probably change alternator belts. My Buffalo bus as well as all our fire trucks were Detroits. Changed oil and that was it. No matter what anyone tells you, there is NO RACK TO RUN on the DDEC (electronic) Foretravels and all our coaches that are 2 cycle powered are electronic engines. Rack running was only true on the mechanical engines. Using the correct oil, your engine should outlive you. In eleven years of ownership, zero coach bucks on ours, just a couple of air bags and lots of diesel and insurance. Naturally, upgrades like floors, TVs, inverters, etc., are extra.

Mercedes now owns Detroit so all parts are available plus huge aftermarket sources for inexpensive (except injectors) parts. They built over 2 million of them.

Get another member to inspect the coach with you. PM with questions.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #39 –
Though I don't have a Detroit in my coach, my experiences in nearly 10 years of ownership are fairly close to Pierce's.  No major expenses other than tires.  But....and this is a BIG but.....I do all my own mechanical repair and maintenance.  Parts are cheap.  Having a questionably skilled mechanic working on your motorhome at 125.00/hr is not.

Personal opinion.  If you have an interest, are decently mechanically inclined, and have time to work on one of these things, a vintage coach can be a cheap, fun, satisfying experience and the huge database and support offered by this forum makes it all doable.  If this doesn't describe you, it is a terrible economic decision that will likely lead to significant remorse.  Buy something newer/simpler.