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Topic: 1991 U300-- bought it! (Read 7561 times) previous topic - next topic

1991 U300-- bought it!

Long time lurker here.

I have been looking really hard for a foretravel bus.

Recently I have chance to buy a 1991 Grand Villa for $4000 or maybe lower
It has 130K miles
6V92T diesel engine
Air ride

It is sitting for about 4 years. The tire needs to be replaced for sure.

I am torn between buy it or not.

One side tell me that it is going to take too much effort to maintain or fix it.

The other side saying heck just $4000. If it doesn't work out, so what.

Is it worth it?  I am afraid it needs too much work to be road ready.
What could be the biggest item to fix for rig at this age.

Thanks in advance for any of your suggestion.




1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #1
Would this happen to be the coach that is in Tatum, TX?
If so I have looked at it some time ago.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #2
This will be fun.  You'll get lots of opinions here and none of us will agree.  We're all wrong, because we're not you.  It's a very personal decision based on what you want out of it:

    • a mostly static camping platform or a road warrior?
    • a beginner Foretravel that you can craft to be your own or a cheap RV?
    • is it close to being what you already want?
    • are you an obsessive and innovative DIYer who stays up into the night working on projects or do you need to take everything to a mechanic?

Having sat for four years, $4K is just your entry point and it's probably the least interesting of your costs to make it travel.  It will immediately cost you another $2-4K for fluids and filters all around -- less if you do it yourself -- and probably $4K for tires.  Engine and transmission are your two big ticket items, but are usually the most long lasting.  It's the 1000 $15 to $100 items that you need to be prepared for in an old coach.  If you want to hit the road, bring an experienced Foretravel inspector with you.

If you just need to move it out to some land where it becomes your cabin, it's probably not too much more than the initial $4K.  You can fix things as you get to them.

Either way, you'll likely need to change out the fridge, or at least the cooling unit, as they become a fire hazard late in life.

It could be sitting because of a life change (death, illness, job change, etc.) or because it's basically totaled due to some fatal flaw and not worth fixing.

I LOVE old RVs and love working on them.  My $33K Foretravel was probably financially foolish, but I've never spent better money on  anything that I can remember.  I'm planning to replace my coolant, transmission fluid, and four rear shocks next week.  I'm actually looking forward to it.
Rick and Donna
1997 U320 4000 WTBI Build 5152 "Molesley"

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #3
If you ever sit in that drivers seat and look DOWN at the truckers you pass, nothing else will ever be quite the same. They are so much fun to drive.
Rick & Rhonda
2003 U320 4220  Build #6199
Was
91 36' GV 300 Caterpillar, 92 40' U280 300 Cummins, 97 36' U295 300 Cummins, 2002
U320 450 Cummins
(Guess we're hooked)

The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #4
Four-Grand or less?  If nothing else you could buy it and part it out, make some money and learn a lot while waiting for the right bus to come along.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #5
Check the bulkheads before going any further. Check under battery box and under water tanks and along rear. Check front bulkhead . If the hidden chassis potential issues look good. It might make you a real nice camper.
Are you a hands on guy or a don't have a clue leave it to you sort?
Are you expecting pristine outcome or can you overlook the fluff.
91 GV U300 Unihome 40' Build 3811
6V92TA Detroit

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #6
I've seen lots worse exterior condition on coaches that are being used every day by full-timers.  Other than faded decals, it looks pretty decent!

Have you been inside the coach?  The interior condition would be of more interest to me.  That's where you live.  Look for signs of water leaks in the ceiling and walls.  Water intrusion anywhere is bad - leads to rot and mold.

How does it smell inside?  Looks to be stored where it's kinda humid, so a musty rotting smell inside would be bad.

Condition of furniture and appliances?  If you can live with the original stuff, at least for a while, that is good.  Completely replacing everything is very expensive, but you can do it a little at a time to spread out the cost.

Do you know anything about RV electric and plumbing systems?  Electrical problems, if any, can be difficult to track down and fix.  Plumbing problems not so hard, but like I said, water leakage inside the coach MUST be avoided.

A complete inspection by a knowledgeable Foretravel owner would be strongly advised.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"


Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #8
Agreed. An inspection by a current or former  owner would be strongly advised. this could either be an incredible deal or an incredible blunder. The asking price is minimal compared to the total price that you will pay out. you have to go over the systems and see what's repairable, what works great, and what doesn't. Only you can decide if this is something you're willing to take on or not. It could be a gem just sitting there waiting to be plucked.
One thing is for sure. Foretravel makes a great coach. If well maintain it can last a long time.
You just need to decide now whether or not this one is maintained enough.
Good luck
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #9
Motorcade numbers are blanked out. If we knew those, we might be able to give you some history on previous owners.
Carol & Jeff Savournin
Usta have a '93 U225 36', Usta have a '95 U320 40', Usta have a '02 U320 40'
Usta have a 2006 Born Free, Usta have a 2011 Phoenix Cruiser
Usta have a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4dr
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life."  Steve Jobs

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #10
This will be fun.  You'll get lots of opinions here and none of us will agree.  We're all wrong, because we're not you.  It's a very personal decision based on what you want out of it:

    • a mostly static camping platform or a road warrior?
    • a beginner Foretravel that you can craft to be your own or a cheap RV?
    • is it close to being what you already want?
    • are you an obsessive and innovative DIYer who stays up into the night working on projects or do you need to take everything to a mechanic?

Having sat for four years, $4K is just your entry point and it's probably the least interesting of your costs to make it travel.  It will immediately cost you another $2-4K for fluids and filters all around -- less if you do it yourself -- and probably $4K for tires.  Engine and transmission are your two big ticket items, but are usually the most long lasting.  It's the 1000 $15 to $100 items that you need to be prepared for in an old coach.  If you want to hit the road, bring an experienced Foretravel inspector with you.

If you just need to move it out to some land where it becomes your cabin, it's probably not too much more than the initial $4K.  You can fix things as you get to them.

Either way, you'll likely need to change out the fridge, or at least the cooling unit, as they become a fire hazard late in life.

It could be sitting because of a life change (death, illness, job change, etc.) or because it's basically totaled due to some fatal flaw and not worth fixing.

I LOVE old RVs and love working on them.  My $33K Foretravel was probably financially foolish, but I've never spent better money on  anything that I can remember.  I'm planning to replace my coolant, transmission fluid, and four rear shocks next week.  I'm actually looking forward to it.

Thanks for you detailed information.

This is not my ideal coach. I like a 2000is U320.  I think I am pretty good DIYer. Although most experience come from maintaining my car and issues around the house. So if I bought it, I plan to do most of the maintenance by myself. And like you, I am kind of looking forward to it :D .

The coaching was lived in full time by previous owner. So the functionality of the living space should be roughly working.

Buying a coach is never a sound financial decision. It is for fun.

Thanks again for you reply!
Agreed. An inspection by a current or former  owner would be strongly advised. this could either be an incredible deal or an incredible blunder. The asking price is minimal compared to the total price that you will pay out. you have to go over the systems and see what's repairable, what works great, and what doesn't. Only you can decide if this is something you're willing to take on or not. It could be a gem just sitting there waiting to be plucked.
One thing is for sure. Foretravel makes a great coach. If well maintain it can last a long time.
You just need to decide now whether or not this one is maintained enough.
Good luck

Thanks
I've seen lots worse exterior condition on coaches that are being used every day by full-timers.  Other than faded decals, it looks pretty decent!

Have you been inside the coach?  The interior condition would be of more interest to me.  That's where you live.  Look for signs of water leaks in the ceiling and walls.  Water intrusion anywhere is bad - leads to rot and mold.

How does it smell inside?  Looks to be stored where it's kinda humid, so a musty rotting smell inside would be bad.

Condition of furniture and appliances?  If you can live with the original stuff, at least for a while, that is good.  Completely replacing everything is very expensive, but you can do it a little at a time to spread out the cost.

Do you know anything about RV electric and plumbing systems?  Electrical problems, if any, can be difficult to track down and fix.  Plumbing problems not so hard, but like I said, water leakage inside the coach MUST be avoided.

A complete inspection by a knowledgeable Foretravel owner would be strongly advised.

Haven't look at inside yet. I don't expect it is better than you described. I will pay close attention to water damage.

Check the bulkheads before going any further. Check under battery box and under water tanks and along rear. Check front bulkhead . If the hidden chassis potential issues look good. It might make you a real nice camper.
Are you a hands on guy or a don't have a clue leave it to you sort?
Are you expecting pristine outcome or can you overlook the fluff.


Do you have any picture to point where the bulkheads is and what to check? Thanks

I don't expect pristine outcome. It would be financially impossible to bring this coach to pristine condition. A clean mechanically sound coach is what I expect.

If you ever sit in that drivers seat and look DOWN at the truckers you pass, nothing else will ever be quite the same. They are so much fun to drive.

A lot people suggest to buy a Trailer, but just for this reason alone, trailer can't compare with Diesel RV.
1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #11
Be looking for this sort of thing: I missed it when I inspected the coach and it could have done some very serious (expensive!) damage.  :facepalm:  A good reason to run the on-board water pump every once in a while; that's how I found this!
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #12
If you search bulkheads on the forum and can see images of where to look for problems and there aren't any and from inside you don't see any signs of roof leakage, and it starts and builds air, my opinion would be buy it. If it were here in So. Cal. I would buy it myself.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #13

No, but I looked at it for another person.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #14
I have a 91 U300 40 footer.
This is definitely a a DIY project or you will have to spend $10,000's to have a shop do it all.  Aside from batteries, air bags, tires, upholstery, exterior cleanup, expect electrical connections that have corrosion resistance build up (especially ground connections) that will need to be redone.  The list of possible "needs" will seem endless but we all pick what is "necessary" and what we can "live with".  If your not excited about working on it then this is not for you.

What would kill the deal for me is if there was a roof or window leak with rusting, rotting wood and mold of the wood and steel structure.  This is different from condensation staining which I would expect in various places inside.  When water gets inside roof and walls delamination occurs and rusting steel swells causing bulging in the sidewalls - this kind of damage is very difficult to repair.  The roof framing is aluminum and the wall framing is steel.  I would expect rusting in the bulkhead area and a repair there would be needed but this is very do-able and well documented in the forum.  I went to the extreme in my repair but this gives you an idea of how it's put together: Bulkhead Repair (Partial Floor Replacement)

Another thing to check for is rodent damage.  If they chew up wiring it's very time consuming to repair.

This model year is very simple: no HWH electronics for leveling (it has a mechanical system that works well), no hydraulic radiator fans (old fashioned belt drive fan with a rear radiator) and of, course no slides to worry about.  In '92 they went to 102" wide body, 350hp (vs 300hp), side radiator with hydraulic fans, and a HWH leveling system.

The power train is likely to be just fine as long as it wasn't parked because of it (as in they overheated it or maintenance was so poor they damaged it).  It might need a new radiator and if the original fan has not been changed from fiberglass to plastic that should be done.  The suspensions on these units are rarely a problem but new shocks might be needed (but they are adjustable).  Fuel line replacements are talked about a lot but on in this vintage they rarely need it - mine are still original.


John Fitzgerald
1991 U300 (SAI) Side Aisle Island Bed 40'
Detroit 6V92 with Allison Retarder
Meridian (Boise), Idaho

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #15
Check the bulkheads before going any further. Check under battery box and under water tanks and along rear. Check front bulkhead . If the hidden chassis potential issues look good. It might make you a real nice camper.
Are you a hands on guy or a don't have a clue leave it to you sort?
Are you expecting pristine outcome or can you overlook the fluff.
Twig has it exactly. $4000 is nothing for a U300 and you could park it as a guest house in worst case. The 6V-92TA Detroit is my favorite engine but the little chassis stuff will keep you busy on any older RV. Yes, trailers are the least expensive way to go but as  posted above, there is nothing like looking down at the tallest trucks when you go by. We love our U300 and would buy this one in a second at the price. You can't expect a perfect coach for what they are asking. Batteries can cost a bunch but not as much as you might expect if you look on Craigslist or FB Marketplace. Be resourceful and it will be a lifetime of memories but if you have pull your credit card at every problem, you will be an unhappy camper.

If you can't do most of your own work, you have no business buying an RV if on a budget. Keep that in mind. If the oil is changed and radiator in good shape, the two-cycle will last forever and get good fuel economy. While the engine/trans package is the most important, the bulkhead, air bags, water leaks, etc, etc are going to keep you busy.

We bought a SOB for $500 with only 27K miles and had not been driven in over 20 years. It looked much, much worse than the one you are interested in. After a little elbow grease, we took it to Canada along with several trips to Baja and mainland Mexico as well as many trips to our favorite campsites in the Sierras. Lots of great memories.

I will say that in eleven plus years of U300 ownership, other than the upgrades and a couple of airbags, there has been NO $10,000 to get it into shape and not even one coach buck spent on failed components. The big expenses have been insurance and diesel fuel. Lots of miles and lots of fuel.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #16
If we had seen something like this a year ago we would have gone and looked at it in person.  We've dealt with antique vehicles all our lives so far and understand that you pay one way or another.  Our preference is to purchase something solid and do all of the necessary deferred maintenance ourselves that way whe know what has been done and are pretty sure the work was done correctly with good materials.
What we look for in a motorhome is water damage.  Water damage is a deal breaker.  Any more than the most minimal sign of water intrusion into the interior means a polite exit.  The framework under the cargo bays, well it's best if that part doesn't need work but is is simple enough to repair, but still runs into money.
If the engine isn't covered in oil it's probably okay.  But if it were my money I'm want to see or make it run before I stated counting out cash.  I want to make sure it can move under its own power and stop.  I want the suspension to raise the coach off the stops.  If it does all that, and I had another $10,000 in my left pocket, I'd reach into my right pocket and start counting out hundreds.  Force of habit would cause me to slow down at some point and switch to twenties.  Just because it never hurts to try.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #17
Depends on where this coach is located and have been for most all of it's life.  If up north, in the salt country, I would pass, but south or out west, what a nice rig to tinker with.  If we had a place with a garage to put coach in, would not be afraid to jump on this one!  The Detroit is a great engine and this coach doesn't look to bad.  Depends on how much you can do yourself and feel comfortable with.  All in the details!  Good luck with you choices!
Joe & Dottie Allen
Sold!  December 2023.      2000 U320; build # 5645
Our coach " Maxine"
Motorcade #  15922;  Escapee 150950; FMCA F330833; Boondockers Welcome;  Harvest Hosts;  Thousand Trails
'98 U320 from 2000-'06
USAF '62-'66

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for." ―Epicurus

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #18
We live up here in "salt country" but I will put our coach frame up against anyone else's frame. Our coach either goes in to storage around Halloween (long before snow and salt weather) or we head south for the winter.
Lon at HWH said our coach undercarriage looked like it just came new from the Foretravel Plant.
I would think there are more coaches that have gone the same route, so just because a coach is up in "salt country" doesn't mean that it is a wreck because of salt. It may never have seen salted roads.
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #19
We live up here in "salt country" but I will put our coach frame up against anyone else's frame. Our coach either goes in to storage around Halloween (long before snow and salt weather) or we head south for the winter.
Lon at HWH said our coach undercarriage looked like it just came new from the Foretravel Plant.
I would think there are more coaches that have gone the same route, so just because a coach is up in "salt country" doesn't mean that it is a wreck because of salt. It may never have seen salted roads.
Since I've been working on mine I've pain  stakingly cleaned virtually all of underneath and sprayed with hammerite wax oil, excellent stuff protects brilliantly against the elements, oh by the way norm, my roof lights, found the hatch at that back where reversing camera is, no power, when I took the light cover off the other day I must have pulled one of the wires out, simple job all working thanks
1990 foretravel grandvilla, Oshkosh chassis
8.2ltr Detroit turbo

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #20
Some more pictures.

It seems like no leak under the engine, no crack on the roof.

The interior is not in good shape. It needs some serious deep deep clean. Most of the systems are not functioning. Toilet is super filthy.

It needs serious time and budget to bring it back to good condition.

Recently MOT sold an 1991 Grand Villa for $16500. It is not exactly the same model. But consider the condition difference, it should be about the same value.  It can be used as a reference. $16500-$4000=$12500 to bring the GV to the condition of the MOT GV. It is going to be challenging.

I think the following items needs to be worked on to bring this back to road ready

Deep deep clean
$700
6 Tires
$2000
Fluid Change plus replacing all pipes
$2000
3 x 8D Batteries
$1200
Hot water tank plus labor
$1200
Mattress
$400
Total
$7500
So it is already $7500 without considering fixing the little thing here and there.

Not even sure if you can get 6 tires for $2000, probably needs more money for 6 tires.

Most likely the air bag needs to be replaced, that is easily another $1500

Even if the bus can be purchased for less than $4000, it still needs significant time and budget to restore it.

I think I am gradually talking myself out.

Whoever bought this bus, hope he can come back to the forum and report back on the restoration.

I think it only make sense if

    • have a property to park the bus
    • have the time to work on the bus for extended period of time
    • Have good source for parts
    • Enough budget
    • Big heart :D

Thanks everybody for your reply.
1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #21
Check https://www.ustireoutlet.com/products/ for good prices on tires. I was looking at their GreenMax steer tires. For a little more DoubleCoin has a good reputation and sold lots of places. So, $1200 to $1800 for a set of tires.

I replaced all three start batteries on our U300 Detroit with Duralast 31 series for just over $300 for all of them. Ask for a 10% discount at Autozone. I did and they didn't blink an eye.  House batteries are available on CL reasonably.

Fluid change. OK but what are pipes?

$700 for cleanup??? I bought a Bissell Pro-Heat carpet cleaner but not for $249 but a refurbished unit from Bissell for $118 that appeared to be new. With our dogs, cleaning the carpet after each trip is a must. The Bissell cleans the sofa, headliner, etc and made the original wool carpet look new. So what if the interior is dirty. Your glass has to be half full!

Bottom of the engine looks dry.

As I've said before, we've owned our U300 for eleven years plus and have spent ZERO coach bucks on it with only a couple of airbags and misc stuff needed. This is outside of upgrades we did. If you are not retired, don't have a place close to work on it and pull your CC out a lot, it's not for you.

Yes, I'm a scrounger but learned as a kid how to make champagne out of cheap Thunderbird box wine. Unless you can do the same, you should stay away from an older coach. Lots of others on the forum make lemonade from lemons. Only if the bulkhead and related belly structure is rotten I would look elsewhere, otherwise, I would buy it in a second. Nothing in the photos is a big deal, just mostly your labor to make it a happy camper.

Pierce

Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #22
Whoever bought this bus, hope he can come back to the forum and report back on the restoration.

It sounds like the $4K Detroit powered FT, he was looking at, already sold to someone else.  Sounds like someone may have gotten a good buy, or maybe not. Take this as a learning experience, there will be others.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #23
It sounds like the $4K Detroit powered FT, he was looking at, already sold to someone else.  Sounds like someone may have gotten a good buy, or maybe not. Take this as a learning experience, there will be others.


I don't know if it is sold or not.

You are right, there will be others. I will keep my eye on a little bit later model with proper maintenance. Maybe just from MOT


1991 Grand Villa U300

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #24
I don't know if it is sold or not.

You are right, there will be others. I will keep my eye on a little bit later model with proper maintenance. Maybe just from MOT


When we're shopping for a new vehicle, in general we don't purchase the first one we find.  That being said, I rode 4 hours in weather that was colder and wetter than expected to look at my first Foretravel, an FTX.  On the ride home, with time to think, I realized that we needed the under bay storage and a dinette.  But.  Other than that I would have made the seller an offer and the build quality I saw convinced me to set my sights a little higher and reach a little deeper into my pocket.

To the motor coach caravan I passed on the right?  I made it past the police before they had time to deploy their radar, though it was entertaining to watch the nose dive as they tried to stop and turn at the end of the on ramp.  At that point I rode past them at the speed limit.
We're happy.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.