1991 U300-- bought it!

Topic: 1991 U300-- bought it! (Read 7561 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #25 – May 21, 2020, 09:20:10 pm

Assuming that it runs and airs up. Check for rust. Rust is the deal breaker for this price range. Easy 2-25K for a proper lower rail repair.
No rust , buy it. Put on the cheapest steer tires all around .
Pull the carpeting out, pull out the fridge, install proper flooring. Find nice seats. A decent small resi fridge can be in place for 500$ plus a good inverter.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #26 – May 22, 2020, 10:53:56 am

Does anyone run the DD from one battery? I use only one for my Cat,

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #27 – May 22, 2020, 12:02:14 pm

Quote from: Protech Racing – May 22, 2020, 10:53:56 am

Does anyone run the DD from one battery? I use only one for my Cat,

When our LaFrance fire trucks were repowered with 8V-71 Detroits, we first switched from 1 to 2 on the Cole-Hersee battery switch (8D battery on each side of the apparatus) every other day but the diesels would hesitate trying to turn over on the single 8D. Normally, the 8-71s would light off in one tenth of a second so when we opened the door to get in the cab to respond, we started going from off to both on the switch, starting the diesels with two 8D batteries. All of this is at sea level in a mild climate.

Foretravel installed three 24 series batteries in our U300. I went to three 31 (2850 CCA) series last year, not because I was having a problem but just in case for winter starts at higher altitudes. The 6V-92TA does not have any starting aids other than the badly placed "block heater" so unless you are plugged in or run the generator for a long time, starting can be a long process. At 17 degrees, high elevation and snow in Yellowstone, I was able to finally get the engine started but only after melting one of the battery terminals.

Cummins 8.3 liters come with just two 24 series stock on Foretravels. The 9 liter Detroit is just enough bigger that it requires three 24s.

Wanderlodges, Prevost, Eagle, etc all have the correct block heater location down low on the Detroit block behind the AC compressor. Good to install a remote block heater, either electric if you have power or propane for dry campers. I think Ken did on his U300.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #28 – May 22, 2020, 06:18:54 pm

I just have one 8d in my 92 and has been working fine, I have only had to use the boost switch a few times in cold weather in the teens. When I had an Eagle with a 8/92 I had two 8ds.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #29 – May 22, 2020, 07:21:44 pm

Typical 8D has about 1400 CCA and a 6V-92TA requires about 950 CCA so one 8D should do the job. Winter at higher elevations with a less than new battery may have problems especially since the Detroits don't have heated screens like Cummins. Foretravel put three 24 series in later U300s just in front of the rear bumper so at 550 to 750 CCA each, there is plenty to crank the Detroit. By replacing the 24 series with 31 series, I have 950 CCA X 3 = 2850 CCA so plenty for winter. And the 31 series were cheaper than the 24 series at Autozone.

Non-turbo Detroits have a 2 point higher compression ratio so require a little more CCAs. As I remember, it's 19 to 1 compared to 17 to 1 for the turbo engines.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #30 – May 30, 2020, 09:28:21 pm

The 6v92 engine sounds really amazing!

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #31 – May 30, 2020, 11:51:42 pm

Needs sanity check!

Today, I hired a diesel mechanic to start up the engine. After replacing the 8D battery, 6V92 engine fire right up without any hesitation. It really sounds beautiful. There is very little smoke when starts up. No smoke at all while running. Can't attach file here. So uploaded to youtube.

However, the engine is the easy part. After the engine starts, there are air leaks on the air bag so the air pressure can not be build. The tire needs to be replaced. All in all, the mechanic give a quote about $7000 to replace the 4 rear air bags, all 6 tires, engine oil, coolant and other small things on the spot.

Is it worth it?

Talked to few friends who don't know much about RV not to mention foretravel, they all think I am crazy. Spending $7K for a 30 year rig. and might be more.

For people who love ForeTravel here, is it worth spending $7K for the chassis maintenance?

How long can Detroit Diesel 6V92 last before next major service?

Right now it is at 130K mile

If it is not fixed, very likely this RV will go to junk yard. I hate seeing it go to junk yard.

Thanks in advance

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #32 – May 31, 2020, 12:00:56 am

$3000.00 will buy 6 tires mounted. Paying another $4000.00 for 4 airbags and service seems high. Just my opinion, maybe try some other quotes.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #33 – May 31, 2020, 12:04:53 am

Quote from: craneman – May 31, 2020, 12:00:56 am

$3000.00 will buy 6 tires mounted. Paying another $4000.00 for 4 airbags and service seems high. Just my opinion, maybe try some other quotes.

Thanks for your quick response.

The challenge right now it that the RV can't move. It has to be serviced on the spot. This limit the choice.
What is the typical cost to change air bag, change engine oil?

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #34 – May 31, 2020, 12:24:25 am

Need to have GV members info on replacing airbags. I don't know if they are harder or easier than on the bus chassis so can't estimate. Engine oil and filters should be similar but have never paid for them so no help on cost. Other members will chime in with oil change costs as many have it done.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #35 – May 31, 2020, 09:42:17 am

Air bags are easy to change after removing fenders over wheels. Side trim is unscrewed and removed and fenders are then unscrewed . Oil needs to be straight 40wt. I use Chevron Delo 100 40 wt myself. You will have to order it. Do Not Use Multigrade oil! Such as Rotella. 2 stroke Detroit has its own oil spec. I get mine at Oreilly autoparts usually overnight crankcase should hold 6 gallons w filtet. 3 gal to a case. Part numbers for O'Reilly CHV 100-40-1
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/delo-3205/chemicals---fluids-16461/oil-16865/motor-oil---vehicle-specific-16257/5fb4d14d310a/chevron-delo-conventional-motor-oil-40w-1-gallon/100401/2624304
As far as is it worth it? Thats up to you. Buying a RV is Not an investment it is an expense.
Did you look at the bulkheads? Is this coach near Charlotte NCi would be happy to check it out for you. I own a 91 myself and have ample experience in what does what.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #36 – May 31, 2020, 10:32:02 am

Quote from: stump – May 31, 2020, 09:42:17 am

Air bags are easy to change after removing fenders over wheels. Side trim is unscrewed and removed and fenders are then unscrewed . Oil needs to be straight 40wt. I use Chevron Delo 100 40 wt myself. You will have to order it. Do Not Use Multigrade oil! Such as Rotella. 2 stroke Detroit has its own oil spec. I get mine at Oreilly autoparts usually overnight crankcase should hold 6 gallons w filtet. 3 gal to a case. Part numbers for O'Reilly CHV 100-40-1
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/delo-3205/chemicals---fluids-16461/oil-16865/motor-oil---vehicle-specific-16257/5fb4d14d310a/chevron-delo-conventional-motor-oil-40w-1-gallon/100401/2624304
As far as is it worth it? Thats up to you. Buying a RV is Not an investment it is an expense.
Did you look at the bulkheads? Is this coach near Charlotte NCi would be happy to check it out for you. I own a 91 myself and have ample experience in what does what.

Thank you. The coach is not near Charlotte NC. I wish it was. It is near Houston TX.

Any recommended mobile mechanic near Houston area?

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #37 – May 31, 2020, 10:35:15 am

Don't know much about air bags other than they are around $100 a piece, can't believe it would be more than 1k to change them. Look up Rudy here, he has a mobile guy for just about anything...

Here is a mobile oil change guy in my area and his price sheet listed on his web page for reference on lube services...

Edit. I see below you are I the Houston area, so am I and this Mobile guy services out area

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #38 – May 31, 2020, 10:52:53 am

As soon as Conti airbags are available cheap again, the cost will be less than $100 each. If you order from China, the price is about $40 so not much of an expense. Tires will cost from $1200 to $1800 a set. Don't get sucked in buying the overpriced brands. That does not sound like $7000 does it? Someone is always trying to get you to spend your money. The difference with what you NEED to spend and $7K is enough to buy a nice toad.

Our U300 has 110,000 miles. Nothing to be done except change oil, air cleaner, plastic fan, check and probably change alternator belts. My Buffalo bus as well as all our fire trucks were Detroits. Changed oil and that was it. No matter what anyone tells you, there is NO RACK TO RUN on the DDEC (electronic) Foretravels and all our coaches that are 2 cycle powered are electronic engines. Rack running was only true on the mechanical engines. Using the correct oil, your engine should outlive you. In eleven years of ownership, zero coach bucks on ours, just a couple of air bags and lots of diesel and insurance. Naturally, upgrades like floors, TVs, inverters, etc., are extra.

Mercedes now owns Detroit so all parts are available plus huge aftermarket sources for inexpensive (except injectors) parts. They built over 2 million of them.

Get another member to inspect the coach with you. PM with questions.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #39 – May 31, 2020, 12:38:20 pm

Though I don't have a Detroit in my coach, my experiences in nearly 10 years of ownership are fairly close to Pierce's. No major expenses other than tires. But....and this is a BIG but.....I do all my own mechanical repair and maintenance. Parts are cheap. Having a questionably skilled mechanic working on your motorhome at 125.00/hr is not.

Personal opinion. If you have an interest, are decently mechanically inclined, and have time to work on one of these things, a vintage coach can be a cheap, fun, satisfying experience and the huge database and support offered by this forum makes it all doable. If this doesn't describe you, it is a terrible economic decision that will likely lead to significant remorse. Buy something newer/simpler.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #40 – May 31, 2020, 01:36:55 pm

Exactly Chuck and well worded. I told him if he was not DIY talented, best to buy a Toyota and tow a trailer. Usually, someone in the budget category does not have the cash for something recent. Nothing wrong with that as I'm in the same boat. At our age, you can't afford to make a big financial mistake. A lot of pension funds are on shaky ground now.

Pierce

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #41 – May 31, 2020, 02:00:13 pm

Looking underneath the bus. Whole body between two axes is covered with fiberglass panel. The frame is not exposed at all.
Do I have to take off the panel to check it?

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #42 – May 31, 2020, 02:03:07 pm

Quote from: jiaxinxi – May 31, 2020, 02:00:13 pm

Looking underneath the bus. Whole body between two axes is covered with fiberglass panel. The frame is not exposed at all.
Do I have to take off the panel to check it?

Do a search here for "Bulkheads". Lots of info and pictures of how the structure is put together. On that age/condition coach could very well be the deal maker/breaker.

And, depending on where it is in the Houston area, there may someone here what can give the bulkheads a quick look for/with you.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #43 – May 31, 2020, 02:39:25 pm

There is a 295 on the forum classifieds in Az. that I would likely buy if I were looking.. None of my biz but a lot of coach can be bought for under 30k AFTER a close inspection.. I don't know your wants, needs, or budget just saying sometimes it's smarter to spend a little more. Almost always when something is priced very low there is a darn good reason.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #44 – May 31, 2020, 03:01:39 pm

Please PM me if anyone in Houston can come to take a look.

Thanks

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #45 – June 01, 2020, 12:48:15 am

I would like to express my sincere appreciation to @stump.

He spend over 1 hour on the phone with me to go over some detail of the bus.
Every single minutes of the call is informative. I learned so much!
He even went over the bulkhead with me over the phone!

Thank you @stump so much!

I guess my journey of Foretravel will start from this GV.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #46 – June 01, 2020, 06:04:14 pm

It is my pleasure to help. We'll get it so it will air up and you get it moved . Then you can get it freshened up at your leisure. First things first.
The pictures of the rear bulkhead looked good. One small spot in the center where the skin looks funky but all in all I think you will be fine

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #47 – June 01, 2020, 11:18:20 pm

Another pleasant conversation with @stump!

Today, he helped me to find the source of the air leak. It is a pin hole at the bottom of the real air tank. Most likely the air tank is rusted from inside.

But @stump come up with a solution that I am excited to try tomorrow.

Use sand paper to clean the nearby area.
Use a cordless drill to enlarge the hole a little bit to get rid of the rust
use a proper size self tapping sheet metal screws with a washer to fill the hole.
Use Epoxy (JB-Weld) to seal the surround area around the hole.
Let it cure
If I can find a hose clamp long enough to hold the whole tank, it would be even better.

Most likely this is going to fix the air leak issue so that the bus can be aired up.

Can't wait to try this tomorrow!

Great thanks again to @stump!

Anybody know how I can find the replacement air tank? It probably needs to be replaced eventually.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #48 – June 01, 2020, 11:25:27 pm

You can daisy chain worm clamps to any length, but Rons fix will work fine have used that remedy on fuel and water leaks on my cranes.

Re: Thinking of purchasing this 1991 Grand Villa, worth it?

Reply #49 – June 02, 2020, 06:57:29 am

Quote from: jiaxinxi – June 01, 2020, 11:18:20 pm

Anybody know how I can find the replacement air tank?

Most any local truck parts store or truck shop will have one. Now you may have to drill new mounting holes as the brackets can be different but that is doable also. They are made in all size with different air taps. You can shop on the net if you don't have a local truck parts store. Look for Air Brake Reservoir.

Mike

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