Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

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Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

June 28, 2020, 11:02:32 am

I read some older posts talking about the use of bio-diesel in older Cummins engines like the C8.3 mechanical. Brett mentioned in a post from 6-7 years ago that Cummins thought it was fine to run 5 percent bio-diesel (B5), but not 20 perent (B20). I noticed on my planned trip next week from Shreveport to Dallas to Austin that all of the Loves, Flying J/Pilot, and TA-Petros were all at B19 or B20 I could not find any ULS plain old diesel along i-20 or i-35.

How is everyone's coaches with older C8.3 engines doing on bio-diesel any issues ? Should I search more to find a station that it easy to get in and out of along I-35E or I-35 in Texas where I can buy plain old ULS No 2 diesel ? If so, can someone recommend a truck stop that is easy in and easy out with a 40 foot coach who sell non bio diesel ?

I read about lift pump failures, replacing filters constantly, etc. My coach is 25 years old and I am sure it has a bunch of crap at the bottom of the tank.

thanks Steve in Shreveport

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #1 – June 28, 2020, 02:36:23 pm

I wouldn't put any in my 8.3. Not good from what I read for older diesels

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #2 – June 28, 2020, 02:42:18 pm

I've run B100 in our Detroit, MBZ (450K no repairs, no injectors, etc.) Case tractor, with no problems. Down in the Sacramento Valley, it's B5 or B20. Your older 8.3 has the Bosch P pump just like our MBZ. Lubricity is higher with Bio-Diesel than ULSD. It absorbs more water than Dino Diesel but puts out less polution. That's one of the reason it is used so much in Calif. BTUs per gallon is virtually the same so you won't notice any MPG difference with B5 or B20.

I hired a guy to do some of my weed whacking. He showed up in a 300SD that only runs on fast food oil. Smelled a little like fries but has run well for years.

Bio-diesel is what's happening! Make it out of plants, algae, turkey/chicken processing plants. If I see a Bio station with competitive prices, I fill up.

Pierce

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #3 – June 28, 2020, 03:14:24 pm

I do add Alliant Ultra guard on every tank to lubricate the Bosch and clean it. My 5.9 Cummins in my pickup likes it as well.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #4 – June 28, 2020, 03:27:17 pm

I've used Power Service Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost for years in different vehicles, has given me more confidence I'm taking care of my engine. It is less than $20 to treat 250 gallons at Walmart or truck stops.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.walmart.com/ip/Diesel-Fuel-Additive-Amber-80-oz-POWER-SERVICE-PRODUCTS-03080-06/16644702&ved=2ahUKEwjmzerrnKXqAhVCm-AKHakLCIQQjjgwDHoECAIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2_dS-4Eb054fAdzFFxw72w

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #5 – June 28, 2020, 03:55:59 pm

Thanks to this thread I was motivated to call a local fuel delivery service and to locate a B5 station in my area. Turns out minimum fuel requirements In Kalifornia are 4.99% bio diesel. My normal station may have been B20 for the last few years.

Will have to check access but it is a 24 hour station so maybe I can access it at late night to lessen my access issues.

Cummins mentioned B5 is ok for my m11. Not b20.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #6 – June 28, 2020, 04:49:29 pm

Quote from: Jack Lewis – June 28, 2020, 03:27:17 pm

I've used Power Service Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost for years in different vehicles, has given me more confidence I'm taking care of my engine. It is less than $20 to treat 250 gallons at Walmart or truck stops.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.walmart.com/ip/Diesel-Fuel-Additive-Amber-80-oz-POWER-SERVICE-PRODUCTS-03080-06/16644702&ved=2ahUKEwjmzerrnKXqAhVCm-AKHakLCIQQjjgwDHoECAIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2_dS-4Eb054fAdzFFxw72w

DIESEL FUEL LUBRICITY ADDITIVES STUDY RESULTS

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #7 – June 28, 2020, 05:25:06 pm

The Cummins site mentions that the earlier than 07 models fuel systems parts might be damaged by the B20 bio diesel.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #8 – June 28, 2020, 06:10:02 pm

I notice that no one answered Steve's basic question-where can he find B5 fuel? I haven't find anything from Cummins that recommends any additive that would allow running higher concentrations of bio.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #9 – June 28, 2020, 06:44:18 pm

I am curious now.

Isn't most diesel sold today, #2 diesel, ultra low sulfur such as at TA/Petro & Flyin J ?

And not a bio-diesel so would not be an issue for older Cummins ?

Thanks for any clarification.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #10 – June 28, 2020, 07:38:41 pm

I understand most diesel is at least B5. Emission areas are B20.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #11 – June 28, 2020, 07:56:55 pm

In Oregon I do not find B5 diesel. B10 is scarce as B20 is more common and less money. I did find all Fred Meyers (owned by Kroger, selling only B10). I verified that by talking to their purchasing agent on the phone last year.

I did not realize there was so much controversy surrounding after market additives. I found the following two quotes relevant.

"Herein lies the problem: mistakes can happen when it comes time to add these agents (by the refineries). In fact, according to Power Service, Power Service, an additive manufacturer that operates its own testing lab, "approximately 40% of the 'ready for sale' fuels obtained in North America during 2010 did not meet the 520 HFRR [I'll explain what that means in a moment] maximum specifications when tested at Power Service's lab (81 of 202 samples)." Fifty-six of the samples exhibited an average wear scar of 624."

The second article:
Are Fuel Additives for You? - Fuel Smarts - Trucking Info

The reason I use the Power Service product below Diesel Kleen with Cetane+ is that years ago my older Cummins diesel blew out darker smoke than what I thought was normal. A tech recommend this product, it got rid of the dark smoke, I've used it ever since. On long trips where I go thru tank after tank of fresh diesel, I only add it to the first tank full. The tank full that will be around for a while, gets the additive. This has worked for me.

Bob, as far as ultr low silver diesel damaging fuel lines, I've replaced all mine 3 years ago. I made sure the Gates fuel line I used was rated for ultra low sulfer diesel..

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #12 – June 28, 2020, 08:04:11 pm

Jack as I understand it it's not the wear it's the ULSD damaging the rubber in the fuel system. Same idea as all of our coaches fuel lines. Would be nice if my additive stops the rubber part damage?

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #13 – June 28, 2020, 08:04:22 pm

Yup, up to the state statutes= farm lobbyists.

States that grow corn-- expect higher Bio content.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #14 – June 28, 2020, 10:28:11 pm

Doug W. Just ordered the opti-lube xpd. That chart was very helpful. thanks

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #15 – June 28, 2020, 10:52:09 pm

I find no additive with claims of off setting possible damage to the rubber lines seals or o orings in our older engines by the use of B20...All the fuel I see in the Loves stops I have been using is B 20.. Going to look for a lower percentage on my October trip to Mexico.. Hard to feel good about the added lube properties in B20 when in the next breath comes claims of damage after extended use in engines older than mid 2000's..You can call ahead to a fuel stop on your route and ask the percentage of Bio but the typical fuel desk attendant is hard pressed to discuss pop or pizza with any knowledge.. I need to feel better about something I'm spending so much for.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #16 – June 29, 2020, 12:11:09 am

I knew about the B20 damage more than a few years ago but due to personal issues and laziness put it in on the back burner.

Mistake for me and many others here with pre 07 engines.

I may have my shop or someone else pull an injector to test it. If the rubber parts are bad I may be soft on power.

23 years later stands to reason. I swear that when I first drove mine 8 years ago I thought it was a dog. I have worked on every possible power loss since.

Maybe it's the big stuff....

I drove and sold dozens of similarly powered coaches from many brands. Just not these new. No comparison.

Dyno 6 years ago says its down on power.

You will never know until you pull an injector to check its pattern on a bench.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #17 – June 29, 2020, 09:53:19 am

Cummins recommendations are made with the last stop being the legal department. Contact injection pump shops to get the real world information.

Our 300SD starts instantly not two seconds later in freezing weather, runs like new after many hundreds of thousands of miles. The U300 had the generator fuel line start leaking but the tiny cracks were on the outside of the hose. I replaced the fuel filters 50,000 and about 12 years ago. All of this running some form of Biodiesel most of the time.

Pierce

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #18 – June 29, 2020, 11:51:06 am

An m11 waits until it reads oil pressure then turns on the injection system. Most engine wear is on startup. I have seen a few Detroit's that have an oil pressure retention system. Works on the ignition switch. So it starts with its oil pressure up.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #19 – June 29, 2020, 12:38:56 pm

I can only make a recommendation based on my experience. For several years I have fueled my 1995 U320 Cummins M11 with whatever is available at major locations such as Love's with absolutely zero problems. It is almost always some biodiesel blend--sometimes as high as B20. I plan to just keep using whatever is available.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #20 – June 29, 2020, 12:54:47 pm

Yes we have to burn whatever is available if we drive.. My 96 8.3 starts on one spin and runs ok, it's the supposedly long term I'll effects on the internal rubber that concerns me.. Seems all we can do present time is burn what is available on our routes and repair what needs repaired down the road.. Just stinks to have something needless added on to what repairs we will have already.. Maybe one of the additive manufacturers will come up with something in a bottle that makes us feel better and feeling better is a good thing and will cause one to dig in the pocket.

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #21 – June 29, 2020, 01:19:24 pm

I may have had bio and didn't know it in the past. Colorado's western slope doesn't have any that I know of in Grandjunction, but I'm going to start paying attention

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #22 – June 29, 2020, 03:12:31 pm

Dub,

Our U300 is 3 years older than yours and our 300SD is 13 years older, both using Biodiesel and both without any internal rubber hose problems. Not many rubber parts in a Bosch P pump either. It's steel sliding against steel on an injection nozzle pintel. The extra lubricity of biodiesel helps here to replace the sulphur.

Foretravel did put some cheap hose in that didn't like any diesel.

And why the really stupid idea to run rubber hoses from the front fuel tank to the rear engine? Not too smart to say the least. Even our old SOB had steel lines.

The cheapest gasoline and diesel goes in all of our vehicles. I'll drive across town to save two cents a gallon.

Pierce

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #23 – June 29, 2020, 03:21:45 pm

All the brands used rubber. Imagine a gilling commercial "Phantom" bus chassis with all the lines bundled with a rubber lined steel restraining strap attached to a welded onto the frame stub.

Foretravel and country coach used a "run" under the floor where the lines and cabling were accessable

Re: Bio-Diesel and an old C8.3 Cummins engine Any Issues ?

Reply #24 – June 29, 2020, 03:23:29 pm

10/4 P... Have to admit I've not found where anyone states they actually experienced any internal effects.. Appears what we are reading is some guy speculating over possibilities.. I'm going to burn what's available and hopefully a lot of it.. We have places to be .

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