Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Ungrounded pedestal question. (Read 614 times) previous topic - next topic

Ungrounded pedestal question.

Campground we are in has 30 amp service. The lugged in yesterday and our surge guard would not connect us, blather was reading 110 volts at best.
The campground called an electrician (who turned out to be a HVAC guy arrived with his meter and decided it was a bad plug in the newly installed pedestal. As he is wiring it up I noticed that there were not two wires a feed and neutral.
My guestion is does it not have to be grounded?
 I thought it was required to prevent the MH from possibly becoming live, having a hot skin issue?
(They moved us to another spot)
David & Emma Roche
Dino (Golden Doodle)
1999 U270 WTFE 36' Build # 5534
Xtreme "Lights, Stripes & Roof"
Motorcade# 18321
Dayton, Ohio
Towd: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Two Townie Electra Bikes

Life is made to enjoy, the Foretravel helps!

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #1 –
Correct.  A proper 30 amp outlet is wired with one hot, one neutral and one ground.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #2 –
If your pedestal comes directly from the distribution box the neutral and ground wires are tied together.  So your 30A socket is wired hot, neutral and ground but going back to "the street" you only have hot and neutral.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #3 –
Perhaps just semantics, but if the outlet/pedestal is remote from the main CG breaker box by even one foot, it should have all three wires.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #4 –
Thinking about it, the pedestal has a breaker for the receptacle, this would be serviced from a distribution panel making the pedestal a sub panel, as a sub panel the neutral and ground must be separated and isolated.
So a separate ground from the receptacle must go back to the main park breaker panel without coming in contact with the neutral.
(Pre 1960 approx separation in a sub panel was not a requirement)
David & Emma Roche
Dino (Golden Doodle)
1999 U270 WTFE 36' Build # 5534
Xtreme "Lights, Stripes & Roof"
Motorcade# 18321
Dayton, Ohio
Towd: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Two Townie Electra Bikes

Life is made to enjoy, the Foretravel helps!

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #5 –
Quote from: "Irish" –
Thinking about it, the pedestal has a breaker for the receptacle, this would be serviced from a distribution panel making the pedestal a sub panel, as a sub panel the neutral and ground must be separated and isolated.
So a separate ground from the receptacle must go back to the main park breaker panel without coming in contact with the neutral.
(Pre 1960 approx separation in a sub panel was not a requirement)
CORRECT.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #6 –
Have been up to the management office and explained the wiring deficiency to them. They had never heard of a hot skin issue!
They are going to get a real electrician to look at all their new wiring next week. So much for my quiet week end relaxing and sipping a cold one in the 90+ heat!
David & Emma Roche
Dino (Golden Doodle)
1999 U270 WTFE 36' Build # 5534
Xtreme "Lights, Stripes & Roof"
Motorcade# 18321
Dayton, Ohio
Towd: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Two Townie Electra Bikes

Life is made to enjoy, the Foretravel helps!

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #7 –
Quote from: "Irish" –
Have been up to the management office and explained the wiring deficiency to them. They had never heard of a hot skin issue!
They are going to get a real electrician to look at all their new wiring next week. So much for my quiet week end relaxing and sipping a cold one in the 90+ heat!
I don't think that's in Dale Carnegie's book.  It's been my experience that telling the truth to people is the easiest way to upset them.

FWIW This ancient trailer park we're staying is has no grounds.  I have a rubber door mat.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #8 –
Years ago, if we encountered a missing ground, we suck a ground rod into ground and connected it to motorhome metal frame with a wire clamp.

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Barry & Cindy –
Years ago, if we encountered a missing ground, we suck a ground rod into ground and connected it to motorhome metal frame with a wire clamp.

Here, there isn't a sub panel for this part of the park. After two very small pedestal fires, and the acquisition of our fine new home and the need for a 50A outlet, I purchased a box and socket, a 30A double breaker and a length of four wire #10 cable.  I bolted the new box to the bottom of the pedestal, made a good commons connection and wired in my new socket.  I had already made the acquaintance of the owner's "electrician."
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Barry & Cindy –
Years ago, if we encountered a missing ground, we suck a ground rod into ground and connected it to motorhome metal frame with a wire clamp.

A technique I used fairly frequently in older Mexican CG's where ground was not part of code.

Either metal stake OR if metal water pipes, tied to that.

You also need to check polarity, as that was basically 50/50 correct/reverse. On standard 15 amp outlets (in many of these CG's), the longer of the two straights SHOULD BE NEUTRAL with the shorter one HOT.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #11 –
I like Brett did the ground to a copper water pipe or ground rod in Mexico  here. Works fine in emergency.
I always check for  a reverse  feed and use a equal shaped plug pins so if wrong you just pull it out and flip it over.
Johnh
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Ungrounded pedestal question.

Reply #12 –
Lots of Electrical issues in Mexico. Grounds are forgotten. Low Voltage , and Voltage fluctuations are wild. 124 Volts to 100 volts is not uncommon. Electricity often goes below the low voltage threshold,  causing the SurgeGuard to drop out. I frequently have " a reason " to exercise my Generator.
And You either Love it or Leave it. I'm still here !
Safe Travels
Dave
2001 U320 40ft
Build #5867
2003 Tracker
VE7DOD