Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

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Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

July 22, 2020, 03:28:17 pm

After 27 years of good service, I decided to retire the OEM Taytronics Inverter. It just used way too much juice at idle and since it was not sine wave, the microwave was slow. As soon as I switched it on, the house battery's voltage dropped.

After a few days of reading inverter reviews in front of the TV, I settled on the Edecoa 1500 sine wave inverter. I looked around and found one for $136 delivered. EDECOA Power Inverter 1500W 3000 Watt Pure Sine Wave 12V dc 110V 120V ac LCD... I checked some long term user videos on YouTube and those looked good. There were complaints about just about all inverters so I had to read around that. A couple of other brands also looked good. For a little more, I could have purchased the 3500 watt model but though this might be more efficient since we don't draw that much juice.

The Taytronics inverter was huge and weighted about 100 lbs so after removing it, I also installed a Trace 1512 inverter I purchased new back in 1989 as I remember. It is a pulse inverter so senses any appliance turned on and starts up. The efficiency stays at about 94% until you use more than 1/3 of it's rating. I have the original schematics, tech documents for the Trace 1512 if anyone needs it.

I did have to remove the selector switch from microwave to the other outlets. I opened the transfer box and jumped the two wire terminals shown so either one of the inverters run the microwave as well as the other outlets. The schematic and the wiring for the transfer switch were different so it took me awhile to figure it out. I have an arrow in the transfer box interior photo showing the modification I made.

The hydraulic crimper works super well. Easy to use and was almost exactly $50 delivered. I printed a guide for the sizes and numbered the box so I don't mix them up.

So, I can run either or both inverters at the same time but on separate circuits. Both start up the compressor in about one second when they are turned on. With the Trace already on, the pulse senses the compress is on and starts it in one second so no delay.

I will post an oscilloscope image for both inverters while under load in a few days if anyone would like to see how clean it is.

Photo of the display shows one Senco compressor on. Either one starts the second Senco compressor easily at the same time.

PM or post questions.

Pierce

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #1 – July 22, 2020, 04:13:24 pm

Pierce, if I remember correctly you did not go the residential fridge route? I'm installing a residential fridge in January and will be adding a small inverter just for the fridge. I wonder if this one would work....hard to beat that price.

Our coaches are similar. That Taytronic switch (and inverter) only runs the microwave and those nearby power outlets?

Thanks Pierce.

Jeff

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #2 – July 22, 2020, 04:37:14 pm

Starting loads on a Samsung refrigerator can be as high as 6 amp, about 720 watts. Normal running loads are 140 watts. More if younare making ice. The description on this inverter makes me wonder how well it would work. We have a 1200 VA Victron Phoenix inverter that runs our refrig and all of the front end electronics and several outlets for chargers etc. Be nice to your refrigerator.

Does it have any warranty?

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #3 – July 22, 2020, 05:22:42 pm

Roger,

The Edecoa will start up a couple of your Samsungs at the same time. 6 amps, 730 watts is nothing. It will start window AC units without a problem. The U300 microwave also. Starts two Senco compressors at exactly the same time pulling 850 watts running, over 3000 watts momentary startup.Check the videos here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh3IHTuRaVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcHE8_URNXk

Pierce

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #4 – July 22, 2020, 05:32:57 pm

The conventional inverters run internal transformers. Not electronically generated. Medium sized for some brands, larger for others. Some conventional designs have single cooling fans. Some double.

The electronic ones I assume just derate if overheated, fins on the outside to help dissapate heat.

Your light usage seems to be doable for the unit.

Desert hot in a compartment maybe not.

The heavier units are designed for higher percentage loads in hotter weather continually as far as I understand things.

Our coach as delivered was and is a true 4 season heavy use capable design.

I am reluctant to lessen any capabilities that it had new.

Just me

Plus I am willing to buy American and pay more. No problem

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #5 – July 22, 2020, 07:23:20 pm

Bob is correct, some inverters have transformers, some don't. Going by the weight of the 1500 watt Edecoa of 3.35 kg - 7.4 lbs, this is a pulse width modulation (PWM) sine wave inverter with no transformer. Nothing wrong with that.

But- a few years ago I tried a Xantrex 2000 watt PWM sine inverter (weighs 8.8 lbs) and found it couldn't run a Keurig coffee maker, or start the front roof A/C. The DW was not happy.

So, I went with an Aims 4000 watt transformer based inverter (weighs 65 lbs)- and it could handle the Keurig and start the roof A/C, and it has 115 amps charge capability.

It all depends what your needs are. Sounds like the Edecoa will work well for your intended use- and the price is awesome.

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #6 – July 22, 2020, 07:46:40 pm

Peter,

It will start a window AC but I think I would need the 3500 watt version. We don't have enough watts on the roof to run an AC no matter how big the inverter is. It does run the microwave over twice as fast and a Mr. Coffee latte maker so that was the purpose and does not use much juice at idle. It will start two Senco compressors at the same time but not a 2 hp contractor's compress. Not even close. AIMS and AIG also looked good but I happened to see an open box.

Microwaves need the 170 peak sine waves produce. Modified sine waves like the Taytronic only produce the 120V RMS, not nearly enough to run a MW at normal speed. The same with the Trace, my back up inverter.

Most all the inverters today have a digital temperature on the display. My photo of the display is at a bad angle but the temperature is at the top right of the display. As it gets warmer, they de-rate themselves. Our Midnite 150 controller can also used in a closed compartment but also de-rates itself.

1500 watt inverters run forever at about 2/3 wattage or 1000 watts. Higher will shorten the life if in constant use.

Pierce

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #7 – July 22, 2020, 08:15:40 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – July 22, 2020, 05:32:57 pm

Plus I am willing to buy American and pay more. No problem

A lot of us would but most things are outsourced as the cost of labor is so much less. It's hard to find very much made in the U.S. Even Cummins is shipping the bad ECU to Mexico to be rebuilt. So, if you are going to buy from an overseas manufacturer, avoid the middle man here and buy direct.

That's also the reason the Germans build so many of their cars here. Much lower salaries, no long vacations, no 28% discount on a new car for German MBZ workers, etc.

Pierce

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #8 – July 22, 2020, 08:56:58 pm

I'm the weird one, I will put my money where my mouth is.

As Mr Fore told me. "Bob my customers are Americans so I buy American where I can."

The "where I can" is a major part of this.

The switch back will take time if possible at all.

Never in the worlds history has any nation subbed out it's major suppliers to a foreign country as the loss of national wealth would permanently damage them.

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #9 – July 23, 2020, 08:34:08 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 22, 2020, 03:28:17 pm

I will post an oscilloscope image for both inverters while under load in a few days if anyone would like to see how clean it is.

That would be interesting. I put a scope on the Roadtrek 3000 watt transformer based inverter. At idle the sine wave was perfect. Medium loads - minor flat-topping. At high loads over 2000 watts the peaks flat-topped severely and were almost square waves. It is made in China, I think corners are cut to meet minimum requirements to be able to call it a "sine wave" inverter.

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #10 – July 23, 2020, 09:38:49 am

I am using Home Depot and this refrig

I called Magic Chef Customer Support about running the unit on an inverter. The docs say don't do it. The support person said that the unit is not built or tested for operation on an inverter. The problem with inverters is the power source that they use to invert DC into AC voltage. If the batteries are low/unstable the inverter cannot function properly. On startup surge it takes a lot of DC amps. Slow starts cause longer surge current and there by more heat in compressor motor. After time it wears on it.

This unit will draw running about 2.6 AC amps/300 watts and 6 AC amps/690 watts. In a park 50 amp shore line no problem. I do have a 6.5kw propane genset. We don't dry camp much. I do drive 360 miles/6 hrs+rest stops and food per day. I have 2 Flooded Cell 8 D batteries for coach. I have 160 amp alternator. I would like to run on a inverter during travel.

All inverters must have transformers in them. You use a 60 Hz DC chopper to create a DC square wave to run thru a transformer. You can use a transformer to transform 12 VDC square wave into 120 VAC square wave not a sine wave.

I believe that using an inverter is Ok, if you can make sure you don not have any slow starts. IMHO

What do you think???

Pat,

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #11 – July 23, 2020, 10:32:01 am

Quote from: pthurman48 – July 23, 2020, 09:38:49 am

All inverters must have transformers in them. You use a 60 Hz DC chopper to create a DC square wave to run thru a transformer. You can use a transformer to transform 12 VDC square wave into 120 VAC square wave not a sine wave.

Hi Pat:

You are technically correct, all inverters have a "transformer". I was trying to not get too far into the weeds, I was referring to a 30-50 lb low frequency (60 Hz) transformer. The switching mode inverters that weigh 8 lbs use several small high frequency torrid coils which are also transformers. The switching frequency is say 50 - 100 kHz (above human hearing), so the coils can be much smaller and lighter than the 60 Hz 50 lb transformer. With PWM, a 60 Hz sine wave is recreated from the high frequency square waves.

The drawback of the lightweight inverters is much less overload capacity. The 4000 watt AIMS I had could handle 12000 watts for 20 seconds. This allowed me to run my roof air with it.

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #12 – July 23, 2020, 10:42:29 am

Quote from: prfleming – July 23, 2020, 08:34:08 am

That would be interesting. I put a scope on the Roadtrek 3000 watt transformer based inverter. At idle the sine wave was perfect. Medium loads - minor flat-topping. At high loads over 2000 watts the peaks flat-topped severely and were almost square waves. It is made in China, I think corners are cut to meet minimum requirements to be able to call it a "sine wave" inverter.

Peter,
Check the YouTube videos. They have a sine wave for different loads. They all looked good to me. A little noise at higher loads but a sine wave all the time. Go to Amazon to read reviews on each one. I have not had the chance to put my scope on it but will this next week. There is also a good page for starting a dozen inverters running a water pump. Several failures, one with smoke. Don't think all China inverters are so-so. After all, they make most Apple Macs, iPhones and a lot of great stuff.

Pat,

We camp a lot so don't consider residential fridges. Both our inverters give almost instant starts on the microwave or compressors. Ask others who operate residential fridges. We might look at it but only have 1140 watts at best up top and just over 400 ah batteries. Craneman has a residential fridge and does well with an inverter. Others too.

Pierce

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #13 – July 23, 2020, 06:48:30 pm

We have been using a 1000w ps inverter for 8 yrs with the res fridge and not one issue. It also powers tv and stereo stuff.
No problems and it came from China.
Johnh

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Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

July 22, 2020, 03:28:17 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #1 – July 22, 2020, 04:13:24 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #2 – July 22, 2020, 04:37:14 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #3 – July 22, 2020, 05:22:42 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #4 – July 22, 2020, 05:32:57 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #5 – July 22, 2020, 07:23:20 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #6 – July 22, 2020, 07:46:40 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #7 – July 22, 2020, 08:15:40 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #8 – July 22, 2020, 08:56:58 pm

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #9 – July 23, 2020, 08:34:08 am

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #10 – July 23, 2020, 09:38:49 am

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #11 – July 23, 2020, 10:32:01 am

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #12 – July 23, 2020, 10:42:29 am

Re: Replacement Sine Wave Inverter

Reply #13 – July 23, 2020, 06:48:30 pm

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