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Hughes power watchdog problems

So the park I'm in in Vermont seems to be having some problems with the shore power. When I first plugged in I got a error message from the Hughes power watchdog. Switching to the 30 amp circuit seemed to work fine although even though I had set a current limiting on my victron multiplus to:25 amps the breaker still managed to trip. Then I had low voltage readings of 110 volts are less and again it tripped it. I was on air conditioning at the time and didn't realize it until I check my battery state-of-charge and I was hovering around 60o%. I let the park know and they're sending an electrician out maybe tomorrow. Today being Sunday everybody left so I moved into a new spot across from me. Before plugging in with my fluke voltmeter I checked both 30 amp and 50 amp and got acceptable readings. As soon as I plug the power watchdog in and turn the breaker on it went red and it's telling me I'm getting 240 volts on line 1 and 400 amps!
Again I pulled out the fluke and checked on the power watchdog screws and I was getting 120 volts on the black and 120 volts on the red and 240 when I put them together. So something appears to be not right inside the power watchdog. I also have a progressive industries surge protector between the generator and the main panel. But of course that's not being involved. so part of me says open the damn thing up and see what's going on inside maybe there's some dirt on the contacts or a wire that is touching something it shouldn't but then I don't know if that would void the warranty. Pretty sure that it would. Of course I'll call them in the morning but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone has any ideas or had this happen to them? I had a bear of a Time installing this on the coach side due to the thickness of the six gauge wire but didn't have any issues on the shore side as it's a glendinning 50 amp cable.
if nobody has any ideas I guess I'll have to wait until I talk to them in the morning. I've got 88% battery power no solar because it's currently raining and expected to rain I think for the next couple days here. Had a over temp fault on the generator but I just need to get out and had some cool and I think bleed it again it's a recurring problem. I put a new lid on the radiator and a new hose between the overflow and the radiator hoping that would have fixed it but it appears that it did not. Water pump belt seems like it's tight enough. And I don't detect any leaks so I'm not quite sure what that issue is.
Bob
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #1 –
Bob,

When it rains it pours and as you said, it is raining there now. 

It sounds like you are proficient and comfortable understanding the electrical power situation.  It also sounds like you have isolated the problem to the Watchdog.  Sorry I cannot offer any further insight on that front. 

As to the generator, I assume in bleeding it you were referring to bleeding the cooling system.  Once you get the generator started again, check to make sure the 110 volt radiator fan is running.  I had trouble with a weak fan circuit breaker (it looks like just a switch) that would trip.  After replacing the breaker I had no further problems. 

If bleeding referred to bleeding air out of the fuel line, I found a clean solution.  To bleed diesel auxiliaries on sailboats I was taught to crack open the banjo bolt on the final injector and run the fuel pump, letting the fuel dribble out, until all the bubbles quit and pure fuel was spilling out.  Very messy.  Before I replaced my fuel lines I had a slight air leak in the generator fuel line.  What I finally realized was that all I had to do was apply12 volt power to the fuel pump for several minutes, allowing the fuel circulate through and back to the return line.  I could not see for sure when the air bubbles had all cleared but at least I was not dribbling fuel all over the engine.  If I ran the fuel pump long enough, 3, 4 or 5 minutes, I was assured that the air was all cleared out.

Richard
Jan & Richard Witt
1999 U-320  36ft WTFE
Build Number: 5478 Motorcade: 16599
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited w/Air Force One
Jan: NO5U, Richard:KA5RIW
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Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #2 –
I had intermittent gen issues.  Replaced both the main and fan breakers.  No more issues
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #3 –
Hi Bob, You have a nice over/under volt protectors setup. Sorry you are having a problem with the Hughes Watchdog, but don't have any idea how to help.

Your situation brings to mind an email I sent to Hughes management, when they just came out with the Watchdog, telling them a hardwired Watchdog needs a way to easily bypass the circuit and force the contactor closed. That just taking the plug-in model and housing it in a hard-wired box is not enough. Referred them to how Progressive Industries EMS has a manual bypass switch. They responded with a thank you.

BTW, we used some 50-amp #6 flexible 'SO' cable in our EMS installation but found the fine strands difficult to gather under the screw-down terminals without first slipping a copper electric crimp sleeve over the strands.

Let us know what you find with Hughes call-in.

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #4 –
Thanks guys. Well I found the problem or think I did. No matter what I tried I still kept getting 240 volt showing on leg one. So I disconnected it both sides and opened it knowing that that me void my warranty and found water inside not only did I find water which wasn't very much but I found some fine strands of copper wire. The water probably came because when I was installing it I had some dripping coming from the black tank rinse connector. We're talking about maybe a half a cup if that. For something that is supposed to be at least splash-proof that's pretty disappointing. I couldn't find anything wrong inside that would cause the so it's got to be a internal issue with either the circuit board or the overcurrent protection. After finding that out I had to drive over an hour into New York to a Lowe's. I bought a plastic housing and some six gauge watertight wire nuts some professional electrical tape came back and connected to two sets of wires together inside the housing. Splicing together fine stranded wire and thick copper wire and those wire nuts wasn't the most fun nor was using the professional electrical tape which has to be stretched for it to stick. it wasn't very much room for me to stretch it out and wrap it around. I almost bought a can of the liquid electrical tape and I wish I had now. I put my spare Hughes power watchdog the plug-in model which I bought in error and finally was able to get for free through my credit card company since the company I bought it from never responded to my repeated requests to cancel the order were to switch the order to the hardwired model, and now it is sitting nice and pretty on the pedestal showing a nice white face and I'm getting 120 volts on each leg like I should. This is just a temporary fix until I can figure out what else to do but I'm really thinking now about buying an autoformer. The new Hughes autoformer has all of that built in now. Well it really kind of ticks me off to do this I can sell the other two at quartzite or keep one for just in case this happens again. I post pictures but I'm in a really bad area for internet.
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #5 –
I have a new auto former and Progressive EMS hardwired. The auto former does not protect against low voltage. It will boost at low but will not shut off if still too low to be safe. I have also had an issue using the 50 amp auto former on a 30 amp connection with over voltage (133) which tripped the EMS. I am not aware of one product that, has surge protection, protects over / under voltage and boost low voltage. 
2002 U270 34' Build 5953
Cummings ISL400HP
3410 Floor Plan
Longview, TX

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Journey, Roam, Explore –
...... This is just a temporary fix until I can figure out what else to do but I'm really thinking now about buying an autoformer. The new Hughes autoformer has all of that built in now. Well it really kind of ticks me off to do this I can sell the other two at quartzite or keep one for just in case this happens again.

Congrats, it is great that you found the issue yourself, and fixed it..

Eric is correct, you will continue to need your Power Watch Dog with Emergency Power Off.  The new Hughes unit only has the surge protection, not the very important EPO (Emergency Power Off) which will constantly monitor park power. When harmful conditions are detected, the unit will automatically cut power to the coach.

In addition to boosting the power, the Autoformer, only gives you surge protection.

Your Power Watch Dog with EPO will automatically SHUT DOWN power if there are dangerous conditions of too high or low voltage, open ground or open neutral as well as more. Unit automatically shuts down power if voltage drops below 104 V or over 132 V. Once power conditions are good and stable for 90 seconds, the unit will turn back on automatically.

Features & details of the Power Watch Dog:
4, 800 Joules of advanced surge protection.  Smart Circuit Analyzer will shut down power to RV if a dangerous event occurs and an alert will be sent to your smartphonePlug-n-play.  Only 4 second delay power on after plugging in (others brands are up to 2 minutes).  Built in 90 second power-on delay after a fault to protect your AC unit.  Complete LED Park Power Diagnostics with wireless fault alerts, open ground, open neutral, reverse polarity, open circuit and miss-wired. 

Also should you decide to double up and use both the new Autoformer and Power Watch Dog, the joules of both units are cumulative.  So if your line in has two protection devices, say 4,800 joules each, your protection will be 9,600 joules.


97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #7 –
One other advantage if a hardwired EMS is the ability to tie in downstream of the shore power transfer switch. This will also provide the same level of protection when using your generator.
2002 U270 34' Build 5953
Cummings ISL400HP
3410 Floor Plan
Longview, TX

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #8 –
I have a progressive industries surge protector on my generator leg. So, only need for shore power. Jack I thought the new autoformer did both jobs now, but now stand corrected. So yes I will be keeping at least one. Question is which. I wanted to put the autoformer in the bed area. I no longer have the big transfer switches, so have room there, I think. That would put it downstream which would be the best way, correct? I don't like the idea of it being out in the open, but then I would be on all the time, and not sure if that is good practice.
Never wanted the autoformer, even after watching a few youtube vids on it, but now, after this park experience, I am ready to get one installed.
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Eric & Alena + 3 –
One other advantage if a hardwired EMS is the ability to tie in downstream of the shore power transfer switch. This will also provide the same level of protection when using your generator.

Thank you for adding that important benefit.  What you added was very important to me, and is why I mounted a Progressive Industries unit between the ATS and the 110v circuit breaker panel.  That leaves the wiring from the post to the hard wired EMS lacking the protectoin you have provided from the EMS forward, with all your 110v appliances.  It leaves this wiring and Automatic Transfer Switch, ATS, unprotected.  A park I was at with bad power last year sure tested the stamina of the Hughes unit, and it worked ever time, without activating the hardwired EMS.  I too appreciate testing the park power, before connecting the rv.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #10 –
We own a heavy 50-amp Hughes Autoformer and would never keep it in the circuit unless needed. Too expensive of a device to leave powered that is of no benefit.

We have hardwired PI-EMS on shore cable to transfer switch and on transfer switch cable to main breaker.

Autoformer is invaluable in hot weather with low shore power voltage and keep Autoformer out of sight by using a 50-amp extension between pedestal and inside bay where we place Autoformer behind locked bay door. Then a short shore cable goes from Autoformer to our SmartPlug Inlet.

Re: Hughes power watchdog problems

Reply #11 –
Update. After repeated attempts to contact Hughes, with no response, finally got thru to someone and they are sending me a refurbished unit. He actually asked me if I wanted to do this, as the alternative would be to just dump in it in the trash?
They are sending it to the campground I am at. Hopefully it will get here before I leave next Friday, but if not I can come by again on my way south from Maine.
So my first and second impression of Hughes customer service is not a good one.
With that said, I still am planning on getting the Autoformer. This park also has low voltage at times. My plug in EPO power watchdog shut off a lot last night. And not many would have been using AC here, it was cool out.
I will let you know what happens with this. To be continued.
Bob
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired