Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Topic: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement (Read 3583 times) previous topic - next topic

Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

August 20, 2020, 02:03:19 am

This topic had already been well cover by others. Especially the threads started by craneman and Sven, were most helpful. Thanks, Gents.

hydraulic fan motor
Replacing the radiator (update)
That being said, I'll only cover what I did differently. Technically, we're not "rebuilding" the motors. This is a shaft seal replacement that, done in the conventional way, requires a $120 "rebuild kit", for each motor. I took a pass on the captive audience priced kits. Let's just pull the seals from the assembled Sundstrand motors and install new seals. I was going to make a seal puller but, once I got a look at the seals, decided not to do that for only two seals. The seals have a rubber coated OD and pull/install easily.

The solution was very easy: Drill two holes, 180 degrees apart, through the face of the seals with a 7/64" drill. Partially screw a #6 sheet metal screw into each hole (Anything more than 3/4 turn will be too much) . Using an appropriate block of wood as a spacer, and a flat steel bar (medium screwdriver), gently pry on the screws, alternately, until the seal is out of the bore. The first one took about 10 minutes to figure out what I needed, and to pull the seal. The second one took about 2 minutes.

A few things to be aware of:
Do not drill beyond the metal embedded in the seal. (Don't drill into the motor housing!)
Do not damage the motor shaft with the drill or the screws. (I made a sleeve from aluminum flashing to help protect the shaft)
Drill the holes biased slightly towards the housing bore, rather than the shaft. (I drilled using two of the six rectangular marks in the seal as a guide)

Seals I used: https://www.mcmaster.com/1199N313/

Greg

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #1 – August 20, 2020, 08:39:04 am

Excellent technical post! Concise instructions + clear close-up photos. Valuable addition to our Forum knowledge archive.

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #2 – August 20, 2020, 09:27:27 am

Greg slight variation of how you did this has worked well for me. Instead of drilling I use a small prick punch and tap a very small hole in the soft metal part of the seal then insert a self starting drywall screw. I actually have a small slid hammer puller made to slip over the screw head to gently tap the seal out. Great post. I will order seals for future install.
Thanks Scott

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #3 – August 20, 2020, 09:54:19 am

Amazing work. I know I can't do this sort of thing in my older age but can pass it onto my mechanic. Thanks

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #4 – August 20, 2020, 10:27:28 am

The perfect photos! Your DIY could make it in a shop manual.

Pierce

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #5 – August 20, 2020, 12:14:30 pm

Quote from: dsd – August 20, 2020, 09:27:27 am

Instead of drilling I use a small prick punch and tap a very small hole in the soft metal part of the seal then insert a self starting drywall screw. I actually have a small slid hammer puller made to slip over the screw head to gently tap the seal out.
Thanks Scott

Scott, I like your technique better than what I did. Punching the holes should generate no chips that could get where they shouldn't be. (Inside the motor) I should have mentioned that I gently blew the few chips away from the area before pulling the seals. Then I inverted the motors (Shaft facing down), and squirted mineral spirits into the seal bore, to flush any debris out. Then I blew compressed air into the case drain port, and repeated both for good measure.

Greg

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #6 – August 20, 2020, 12:15:19 pm

I had to buy the seal kit to get the seal information for the first motor, then just bought a seal for the other one. Now that the seal info is out there and this post on the easy way to reseal, more DIY's can take place. The motors can come out without removing the radiator.

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #7 – August 20, 2020, 12:25:12 pm

Quote from: MisterEd – August 20, 2020, 02:03:19 am

excerpt
The solution was very easy: Drill two holes, 180 degrees apart, through the face of the seals with a 7/64" drill. Partially screw a #6 sheet metal screw into each hole (Anything more than 3/4 turn will be too much) . Using an appropriate block of wood as a spacer, and a flat steel bar (medium screwdriver), gently pry on the screws, alternately, until the seal is out of the bore. The first one took about 10 minutes to figure out what I needed, and to pull the seal. The second one took about 2 minutes.

A few things to be aware of:
Do not drill beyond the metal embedded in the seal. (Don't drill into the motor housing!)
Do not damage the motor shaft with the drill or the screws. (I made a sleeve from aluminum flashing to help protect the shaft)
Drill the holes biased slightly towards the housing bore, rather than the shaft. (I drilled using two of the six rectangular marks in the seal as a guide)

Greg

Thanks for sharing your approach for pulling the seal and doing the replacement. Not sure I trust my drilling skills enough to avoid drilling into the housing. Protecting the shaft is a smart idea.

Anyone used puller like this? Video makes it seem easy of course.
Lisle Shaft type seal puller

How to use video

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Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #8 – August 20, 2020, 12:34:20 pm

@ craneman,

I didn't pull the radiator, since the PO had a new one installed a few years ago, and it's in like new condition. The CAC appears to be the original, and is in decent condition. Both motors had a small leak when we bought the coach. The front motor developed a pretty bad hemorrhage on our last trip to TX. I noticed she was marking her spot the morning after we pulled into Xtreme. I did pull everything else to clean and detail. Putting it back together, with clean parts, has been a much more pleasant experience than the grimy disassembly. I'm hoping to finish this project over the weekend .... and move on to the next one

Greg

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #9 – August 20, 2020, 01:05:44 pm

Sure is nice having smart people like you and crainman doing all the hard work and letting me make a simple job almost as thou I had done it before. Thanks for all the great posts and information, part numbers. This should all be included information in the maintenance manuals I wish we had.
Scott

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #10 – August 20, 2020, 01:20:10 pm

Greg how did the removed seals look? Sharp inner sealing lip? Or worn down. Any shaft wear?

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #11 – August 20, 2020, 01:29:41 pm

I am making my records from all i can find. Thank you for another huge CB saver!
Mark

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #12 – August 20, 2020, 04:10:43 pm

If I were to order these seals as spares or for future use, would I need two per motor or just one?

Richard

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #13 – August 20, 2020, 04:12:29 pm

Quote from: Jan & Richard – August 20, 2020, 04:10:43 pm

If I were to order these seals as spares or for future use, would I need two per motor or just one?

Richard

Good question and what other seals are needed. The kit in Craneman's post look like there were some o-rings and other seals needed to do the job.

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #14 – August 20, 2020, 05:24:40 pm

Perfect idea "FT shop manual"...Chuck???

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #15 – August 20, 2020, 05:49:41 pm

Those would be to solve internal leaks or to replace internal parts.

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #16 – August 20, 2020, 10:43:22 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – August 20, 2020, 01:20:10 pm

Greg how did the removed seals look? Sharp inner sealing lip? Or worn down. Any shaft wear?

The seals didn't look too worn but at 21 years of age, minimum, it's no surprise that there was leakage. The backup washer that goes between the seal and the snap ring was missing on the front motor. It could have been a contributing factor in the front motor leaking more, but I can't say for sure.

There was no measurable wear on the shaft where the inner lip rides. There was some light rust on the shafts, just outside the exclusion lip of the seals. I polished that off with 1200 paper before removing the seals. It wouldn't have affected the seals as installed, but might have caused some minor damage to the lips during installation. (I could have put a mylar wrap on the shaft during seal installation to negate any damage)

Greg

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #17 – August 20, 2020, 11:32:23 pm

Was the sharp edge still visible on both surfaces?

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #18 – August 21, 2020, 12:26:19 am

The inner lips had a slight flat where they would have been sharp when new. I didn't measure it. The exclusion lip looked pretty sharp

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #19 – August 21, 2020, 12:44:15 am

Thanks Greg I rebuilt dirt engines and the seal sharpness is the key. Not sharp I toss them

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #20 – September 22, 2021, 09:49:43 pm

I want to give THANKS to everyone on this thread, especially Mister Ed (Greg) for all the information here.
My shaft seal was leaking and I decided after reading this thread to give it a shot. Started by degreasing everything, then blasted it all with brake cleaner to clean as much as I could.
Made sure I had caps and plugs to cover the lines as I took everything apart. Only lost maybe 2 quarts of hydraulic oil.
Greg was a big help with info on sourcing the seal, removing the fan hub, and just inspiring me to do the job. As I've stated in other posts, this Forum is Great ! Here's a pic of my seals (new & old) and my finished job with seal, washer, and clip all back together.

Now just got to put it all back together !

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #21 – September 23, 2021, 07:30:31 am

Did you do the pump or the fan motors?

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #22 – September 23, 2021, 01:56:23 pm

The seal on the fan motor shaft.

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #23 – September 23, 2021, 09:04:29 pm

Did you pull the radiator to get to the motors? Or did you pull them with the radiator in place?

Re: Another Radiator Fan Motor Seal Replacement

Reply #24 – September 24, 2021, 10:09:05 pm

Did not pull the radiator. I removed them from the back side. It really wasn't that difficult of a job, just a little messy. I did drain the radiator and removed the lower metal radiator pipe that runs along the bottom of the radiator. It might be possible to pull the motors without removing that pipe, but pretty cramped in there with a lot of lines.

While I was doing this, I went ahead and flushed the radiator, and drained the hydraulic oil and did a filter change.
I did the whole project over a couple of days, but if someone really wanted to stick to it, could do all in a days work.

I have given it a test drive since finishing, and everything is clean and dry. Looks like it was a success!!!

Motor oil and filters-check, Radiator flushed and all new antifreeze-check, Hydraulic Oil and filters-check. Same for Generator.
Going to do all the Fuel Filters this weekend and will be ready to go. I will say, it did give me a feeling of accomplishment

Thanks again to everyone for their tips and information..

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