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Topic: New fuel lines (Read 1865 times) previous topic - next topic

New fuel lines

We are at Oregon motorcoach center. Brought the coach in on Nov 11th to have the fuel lines replaced & Annual AH service.

Only bugaboo is that they couldn’t get the fuel lines purged or the AH service completed before the weekend. So, a bit of tarmac camping till Monday.

I’ll try starting the coach every once in a while over the weekend.

Tech showed me the old lines. Most of the length didn’t look bad. But all the hose to connector interfaces had a lot of cracks. He said it was a good move to replace them.
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #1
Sure fire way to purge new fuel lines is by SLIGHTLY pressurizing the fuel tank (like 2-5 PSI-- you hand over the fill with air nozzle in your hand).  Have someone else open the secondary fuel filter OUT bleed and do this until all the air bubbles are gone.

Much easier on the starter!
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #2
I used a small drill motor pump, with garden hose fitting's, pumped right up to filter. Coach fired right off, kept running, stumbled once, kept running.
Chris
Chris and Tammy White  CDA Idaho
1997 U295 36' 3126 Cat 300 HP Build # 4998 
Former Foretravel tech & RVIA certified tech
Former owner Custom Satellite home/RV satellites 
Former owner Vans LTD  van conversions
Unemployed, panhandler, drag racer NHRA #6348

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #3
Doesn’t your coach have the bleed switch next to the engine stop and start buttons in the engine bay?  I just ran the bleed switch several times and bleed air out then started right up.
Scott
Scott and Kim Davidson
If your going to be dumb, you got to be tough.
June 30, 2020
2001 U320 3610 Barn find
Build 5834

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #4
DSD, yes it does. Not sure if it was or wasn’t working. I saw some light come at that panel. I saw them remove the fuel filter once (I wasn’t out there all day trying to watch)

I also smelled ether. Which worried me as I don’t really like using that stuff.

Brett,  I’m not going to go at the starter like a mad man. Just a few times over the weekend.


1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #5
I've used a lot of ether to start cold engines but never to help bleed an engine. Don't you have an electric fuel pump for bleeding as
Scott suggested. When I said I used lots of ether, it's cause I have had to start a lot of engines in freezing weather and I only used
a little each time.
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #6
On my coach you can hear it run (Bleed pump) and see fuel pass thru the stock clear filter. I would avoid ether however I think your coach was equipped with it, my is. White canister forward of the right rear taillight. Bubba with Mayfield and sons truck service was using Napa contact cleaner as a alternate starting fluid. None of the ether side effects and ran nicely on it when I had my failed ECM. Probably worthless for cold weather starting. I am not advising to use, just that he did and I would also on my own equipment. I probably should read up on how we are supposed to use ether for cold weather conditions, no clue.
Scott
Scott and Kim Davidson
If your going to be dumb, you got to be tough.
June 30, 2020
2001 U320 3610 Barn find
Build 5834

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #7
dsd, as we are going nowhere this weekend. I’ll monkey with that bleed pump panel.
I saw the tech messing around with it. But I was watching from the garage door some 20 feet away. So I’m not sure and didn’t hear them say they were having issues.

As for the ether. It works, but a lot of folks tend to do the normal human thing of- if a little works, more will work better.

What shocked me was the fact that after buying this coach 5 years ago and never having touched the ether button. It actually still had ether in it.
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #8
Scott with the Aqua-hot mostly we don't need to use the ether and if you are starting a cold engine let the engine turn over a
couple of time and then just touch the ether button for a second and it should fire. Why I let the engine turn over a couple of
times is with the electronic engine the ECU won't give the engine fuel until until then.
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #9
I figured it was about like that but will read to see if isTemperature  locked out Or active all the time. Just curious on correct operation. Also need to figure out if the bottle needs replacement, I’m sure it probably does.
Scott
Scott and Kim Davidson
If your going to be dumb, you got to be tough.
June 30, 2020
2001 U320 3610 Barn find
Build 5834

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #10
I figured it was about like that but will read to see if isTemperature  locked out Or active all the time. Just curious on correct operation. Also need to figure out if the bottle needs replacement, I’m sure it probably does.
Scott
Scott, it has temperature lock out. I found out after buying a new cyl. and finding out the one on the coach was still good. I found the lockout sensor, bypassed it, unhooked the hose and had my son activate it, and ether came out the hose. Put the new canister in the shop and still haven't needed to use the bottle on the coach. The night before we leave I send the Aqua Hot through the engine. We just returned from Redmond Or. and it was 15 deg. the night before we left. Started right up.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #11
I've used a lot of ether to start cold engines but never to help bleed an engine. Don't you have an electric fuel pump for bleeding as
Scott suggested. When I said I used lots of ether, it's cause I have had to start a lot of engines in freezing weather and I only used
a little each time.

There are some important warnings on the forum regarding using the ether option in most Foretravels, particularly related to the intake manifold heater, IIRC.  Many have disconnected the ether unit as a smart precaution.

Ether start built into the coach
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #12
I figured it was about like that but will read to see if isTemperature  locked out Or active all the time. Just curious on correct operation. Also need to figure out if the bottle needs replacement, I’m sure it probably does.
Scott
On our 1998, the ether canister felt about half full when I shook it.  I took it out to inspect for rust - touched up some spots and reinstalled.  Loosen the big hose clamp and unscrew the canister.

We are not likely to use it.  We normally have the time to use the aqua hot or block heater.  We avoid temperatures much below freezing.
Matt B
1998 u-320

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #13
Just out of curiosity, in freezing cold weather, instead of ether, couldn't one start the generator and then run the block heater for an hour if no ether is desired or available?
Just curious.
I took the ether can out of our coach and use the generator and block heater if we need to start in cold weather. If we are plugged into shore power, even better!!
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our master, Rocket the cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #14
I use the Aqua-hot mostly and have a block heater that I have used. I find using the Aqua-hot for an hour to a couple of hours the engine will start no problem. I have only used the ether once at home. Turned the engine over, it didn't start, tried again touched the
ether button and the engine fired up. I like have the ether just for a back up and wouldn't use on a engine that is warm. If the coach
doesn't come with a system don't use ether as it probably comes with some kind of heater which will cause an explosion.
DO NOT USE ETHER ON THE GENERATOR, it has glow plugs and when my gen won't start in really cold weather I cycle the glow
plugs
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #15
Running the block heater for an hour with the thermostat housing "block heater" does nothing in cold weather on a 6V-92TA. Detroit owners need to move the heater to the correct location or install a remote heater like some have done. For years, Detroits came with flip up cap or button on the dash. RV owners are not to be trusted to use ether correctly and engine damage will occur if used on a warm engine.

The heated screen on a Cummins may cause the ether to explode.

At high altitude and in the teens, I've had to use ether on both the generator and the main engine. Ether does work on glow plug engines.

Pierce
Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #16
Two quick stories on fuel lines and ether. I replaced all my fuel lines 2 years ago with minimal difficulty. I had to empty the fuel tank in order to slide it out and remove the fuel lines. One thing to note is the plug on the bottom of the tank that fits in a recessed hole in the floor. In order to get the tank out I had to lift it about 1/2-3/4". Then I had to cut one of the return fittings off the top of the tank as it would not clear the opening with the tank being lifted.

After replacing all the lines, for priming I used a hand diaphragm pump (think hand bilge pump) for the engine fuel lines 2-3 pumps and the fuel was at the filters. For the AH I used the same drill pump that I drained the tank with. I had problems getting the fuel to pull through the line for the generator using the drill pump. After about 20 minutes of running the drill pump I figured the pump was worn out and went off to do something else. When I came back 15 minutes later the fuel was flowing freely all over the ground (probably 15-20 gallons). Apparently I started a siphon just before I stopped with the drill pump and decided to walk away. Had my own Exxon Valdez experience.

Ether and air in the lines. You can dump a whole can of ether into the system while your trying to start (just saying, I know you wouldn't), but if you have air in the lines/filter it will not continue to run. I ran a Cummins 4Bt out of fuel years back, promptly refueled and topped off the fuel filter. It would not start, after several hours I got it to run with WD40 through the intake, went through a whole can thinking it would continue to run on its own at some point, it didn't. Carefully removed the fuel filter again for the "nth" time and noticed a small bubble of air.I removed the bubble with my finger, replaced the filter and the motor fired up on the turn of the key.

Also, you can substitute WD40 or some silicone sprays for starting fluid if you feel the need to use them, Personally starting fluid should only be used on that POS lawn mower that never starts and that your hoping to replace next year.
 
Eric, Mary and Carl the jack russel terrorist
1997 U320, #5143, w/450 hp, 6.9 on the richter scale
Sammie the toad
Live Free or Die

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #17
After  changing the lines on coach I too had problems getting fuel to feed thru the main line and after messing around filling the filters couple of times I pulled the tank again and found the main line was kinked so after straightening  that and replacing tank all whent well and no more issues.
Johnh
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #18
You don't have to go to the glow position on the generator to get the electric pump to run. Just a small jumper from a 12V battery will make the pump run and easily bring fuel from the tank. It really helps to open the valve on the return line to let the fuel make the round trip and get rid of all bubbles.

The same with the main engine. You can't pressurize the fuel tank without having the secondary filter loose so the air can escape. Otherwise, nothing happens.

Pierce
Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #19
I would not use ether on a glow plug engine unless I had disconnected the glow plugs. If you use ether the ether will hit the glow
plugs and fire before top dead center. Just google ( using ether on a glow plug engine) you will get your answer.
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #20
Well, it’s the end of our sixth day at OMC.
So, they have been unable to clear the air from the fuel lines. After SIX HOURS of labor @ $125/hr trying to purge the lines. They come and tell me that for some reason someone in the past removed the the first fuel filter block with the primer pump and replaced it with a unit that doesn’t have a primer/purge pump. ????WTF over.

Even more puzzling and quite maddening was the fact that they saw this when hooking up the new fuel lines at the primary filter and didn’t immediately stop and suggest a quick and easy swap to a filter with the pump. Instead they only told me that a new filter/primer pump should be installed after expending $750 of my money on a futile exercise and running my starter way too much.
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #21
WOW! Like them Texans say, “that ain’t rite”
Richard & Betty Bark & Keiko our Golden Doodle
2003 U320T 3820 PBDS
Build # 6215
MC # 16926
2016 Chevrolet Colorado 4X4 diesel

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #22
I had mixed results at OMC..... lots of $$$ spent on leveling system that MOT fixed in under two hours....

but had some good service there too....
Tim Fiedler    2000   Foretravel U-320 4010
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD
1955 7DC Champ & 1956 7EC Champ on PK1500's
1980 50' Westport MY & 2016 19' Arima SeaChaser
1980 Honda 900 Custom w/ fairings

Re: New fuel lines

Reply #23
WTF over is right. After 20 minutes you'd think they would check to see if fuel was being delivered to the filters, at some point you have to start "cracking" lines to see where the fuel isn't, and go from there.
Eric, Mary and Carl the jack russel terrorist
1997 U320, #5143, w/450 hp, 6.9 on the richter scale
Sammie the toad
Live Free or Die