Utility Bay Redesign

Topic: Utility Bay Redesign (Read 2375 times) previous topic - next topic

Utility Bay Redesign

November 30, 2020, 06:14:50 pm

I realized I hadn't posted some of the details of my basement redesign since it was completed. So, for your entertainment, here are a few pictures of the project. I'm an engineer by trade, so of course, I had to design it in CAD (Computer Aided Design) to make sure everything would fit and to create fabrication drawings from the computer. I don't expect anyone to copy what I have done. It is something I did because wanted to see if I could do something different and possibly better.

It started with the bulkhead repair/replacement: Bulkhead Repair (Partial Floor Replacement)

My goal was to make sure the floor wasn't going to rust out again and add all the features I wish it had. I believe the main reason for water intrusion was water spills (typically from leaking plumbing) onto the basement floor and then finding its way into the steel structure via screw holes in the floor or seams with vertical walls. My wall-to-floor seams from the factory were silicone. But silicone only seals good for a few years. My new completed basement has no screw holes at all in the floor and I sealed it to the walls with 5200. I managed to attach things to the vertical walls when I need to secure something.

Another thing was my water connection always spilled a little water in the basement each time I disconnect the fresh water hose. One of my thoughts was to put the water "stuff" in a vertical panel that contained all the splashing and let it drop out to the ground without ever being in the basement. I used a bulb seal on the front edge of the panel to seal against the door when shut; this is to keep critters out and heat in.

Upgrades from OEM:
1.   Grey water drain is now 3-inch pipe. OEM was 1.5" which took some time to drain.
2.   3rd dump valve.
3.   Fresh water hose reel.
4.   Hot and cold faucet.
5.   Automatic water fill shut-off (OEM was just a manual valve in bathroom)
6.   Black water flush that sprays over the sensors. This is the blue handle valve on the connection panel. Water runs through a
backflow preventer to protect my fresh water from contamination.
7.   Sewer hose retraction: When 3rd valve is closed and button is pressed, a vacuum is created in the hose to collapse it to help
push it back inside the storage area.
8.   Stainless steel drain pan under all the plumbing: even under the tank connections.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #1 – November 30, 2020, 06:17:33 pm

More details:
1.   A "Connection Panel" is easily removable with 3 water connections, one electric connector (for the light) and a single wingnut. It slides out on a rail mounted to the ceiling of the bay.
2.   Lighted tanks: On my vintage all the tanks are translucent so I put an LED tape string on top of each and switches on the control box. It can still be difficult to see the water levels in daylight so I'm not sure how useful this is in the long run. Its intended as a backup to the gauges as well as an indicator while dumping.
3.   An electronic automatic shut-off for the fresh water fill: Probes in the overflow pipe trigger a WaterBug leak detector to shut off the fill solenoid valve. The WaterBug has relay outputs for control. I added a "STOP FILL" button to shut the water off earlier if I want.
4.   The "Connection Panel" is easily removable with 3 water connections, one electric connector (for the light) and a single wingnut. It slides out on a rail mounted to the ceiling of the bay.
5.   Lighted tanks: On my vintage all the tanks are translucent so I put an LED tape string on top of each and switches on the control box. It can still be difficult to see the water levels in daylight so I'm not sure how useful this is in the long run. Its intended as a backup to the gauges as well as an indicator while dumping.
6.   Compressed air blowout of plumbing: I plumbed a line from the coach air supply to the hot and cold inputs of the plumbing with valves to each. I still use anti-freeze to winterize but this makes it easier and I can use less. I installed a check valve in the feed airline to assure no water will flow into the air system. I also added a manual valve too.
7.   Easy air blowout of fresh water hose reel and faucet: Because the connection panel is somewhat outside of the basement space it's more susceptible to freezing. So when I'm camping and I'm worried about freezing here is what I do:
a.   Shutoff the hot and cold water valves that isolate the coach main plumbing
b.   Open the AIR valves on the hot and cold lines
c.   Loop the fresh water hose end and attach it to the spigot on the panel (6 inches away)
d.   Open the yellow handled valve on the back of the connection panel.
e.   Open the spigot.
f.   Open the cold and hot handles of the faucet until all the water is blown out.
g.   Open the black water flush valve until only air is heard running
Water is blown out of the hose reel, the spigot, and the faucet.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #2 – November 30, 2020, 06:20:23 pm

With the new connection panel design I had to change the door latches. The OEM setup is a single pop-out handle in the middle with two rods leading the latches on each side of the door. Since I didn't want to notch the connection panel for the OEM rods, I decided to install electric latches in the bay and strikers on the door. I power the electric latches with a microswitch on the OEM handle. Because electric stuff can fail, I installed manual over-rides going through the walls on each electronic latch. The latches have a manual over-ride lever and an internal switch that I used to turn on the LED interior lights. If I want to leave the door open and the lights off all I have to do is push the latch paw closed.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #3 – November 30, 2020, 06:27:31 pm

You will notice the RS300 inverter. That location was chosen just out of convenience. All coach power runs through these cables. I have 50 amp plugs and sockets so I can easily bypass it if it fails or when in storage; an internal fan runs all the time when it is plugged in so I like to leave it unplugged. The RS3000 is mounted to boards with rubber grip pads and just sits on the basement floor. During storage, when the RS3000 us unplugged, I have a 55-amp DLSX charger to keep the batteries up and it's also a backup charger in case the RS3000 quits.
The control panel is mostly just standard 12 volt wiring (just a lot of it) plus a relay for the tank fill and the Waterbug unit. There is a RJ-45 (ethernet jack) terminal breakout board. The controls for the water fill are wired to this. The plan is to use an ethernet cable between this and another breakout board by the kitchen area for fill controls there. I can use a RJ-45 splitter later if I want to add another set of controls somewhere else too.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #4 – November 30, 2020, 06:31:47 pm

One thing that might be useful to others is the black and grey drain valve plumbing set up. I think this is more compact than anything else I have seen. I didn't modify any of the fittings or valves but I did order the fittings from McMaster-Carr because they had CAD downloads of them and I could be sure of their exact size. One thing I don't think most people realize is there are different flanges available for the Valterra valves. "Hubs" are like fitting in that they fit over a piece of pipe; "spigots" are sized just like a piece of pipe. They also have male and female threaded valve flanges. I used "spigots" on both sides of all three valves. I choose manual valves for their reliability; you can feel when seal starts to become difficult to pull.
Another experimental feature is the Sewer Hose Retract: This puts a vacuum on the sewer hose between the 3rd valve and the Wastemaster valve that is on the end of the hose. A microswitch is installed on the 3rd valve so the vacuum can only be turned on when the valve is fully closed. Pushing the retract button energizes an air solenoid (connected to the coach air supply) that feeds a vacuum generator. The vacuum generator is mounted to the gray water tank vent pipe (1-1/2") with the exhaust going into the vent pipe and out the roof. I put it up high behind a panel in the closet. The is no opening in the vacuum generator where sewer gas can enter the living space. The retract button also turns on a solenoid valve in the vacuum tube that is located high (between the top of the tanks and the basement roof. The vacuum line is thick wall ½ ID vinyl and is connected to the plumbing right after the 3rd valve. It seems to work pretty well and in hindsight it's kind-of a necessity because when the tank valves and the Wastemaster valve are shut it traps the air inside and makes collapsing the hose impossible.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #5 – November 30, 2020, 06:46:52 pm

Wowwwwwww I'm speechless...

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #6 – November 30, 2020, 06:57:39 pm

I'd love to see your updates in person. Can't get the full affect! Awesome work and write up.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #7 – November 30, 2020, 07:30:55 pm

Amazing work. Wow!

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #8 – November 30, 2020, 07:32:18 pm

John,

Is your IOTA charger one that you can change charge modules in case you decide to go with Lifepo4 batteries? Or did you get the smart charger IQ4?

You are giving Don a run for his money in utility bay design. Looks great.

Mike

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #9 – November 30, 2020, 09:13:12 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – November 30, 2020, 07:32:18 pm

Is your IOTA charger one that you can change charge modules in case you decide to go with Lifepo4 batteries? Or did you get the smart charger IQ4?

Mike, I don't really know. Since it's a few years old, I would guess not. My purpose at the time was just for storage and as a backup 12 volt charging device; something I think everyone should have.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #10 – November 30, 2020, 09:25:09 pm

WOW!!

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #11 – November 30, 2020, 09:25:45 pm

"Wowwwwwww I'm speechless..." me too !!!!

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #12 – November 30, 2020, 09:47:13 pm

I have to join others here.........WOW, Truly amazing work. Congrats on the project.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #13 – November 30, 2020, 10:03:47 pm

Having the Wastemaster with its terminal valve set up makes this very doable. Could be done with a cap on a regular hose, but this is more elegant. I think I will add this to my project list. Using a venturi vacuum generator with the coach air makes it even cooler!

Great job!

Don

Quote from: JohnFitz – November 30, 2020, 06:31:47 pm

One thing that might be useful to others is the black and grey drain valve plumbing set up. I think this is more compact than anything else I have seen. I didn't modify any of the fittings or valves but I did order the fittings from McMaster-Carr because they had CAD downloads of them and I could be sure of their exact size. One thing I don't think most people realize is there are different flanges available for the Valterra valves. "Hubs" are like fitting in that they fit over a piece of pipe; "spigots" are sized just like a piece of pipe. They also have male and female threaded valve flanges. I used "spigots" on both sides of all three valves. I choose manual valves for their reliability; you can feel when seal starts to become difficult to pull.
Another experimental feature is the Sewer Hose Retract: This puts a vacuum on the sewer hose between the 3rd valve and the Wastemaster valve that is on the end of the hose. A microswitch is installed on the 3rd valve so the vacuum can only be turned on when the valve is fully closed. Pushing the retract button energizes an air solenoid (connected to the coach air supply) that feeds a vacuum generator. The vacuum generator is mounted to the gray water tank vent pipe (1-1/2") with the exhaust going into the vent pipe and out the roof. I put it up high behind a panel in the closet. The is no opening in the vacuum generator where sewer gas can enter the living space. The retract button also turns on a solenoid valve in the vacuum tube that is located high (between the top of the tanks and the basement roof. The vacuum line is thick wall ½ ID vinyl and is connected to the plumbing right after the 3rd valve. It seems to work pretty well and in hindsight it's kind-of a necessity because when the tank valves and the Wastemaster valve are shut it traps the air inside and makes collapsing the hose impossible.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #14 – November 30, 2020, 10:38:18 pm

WOW X10

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #15 – December 01, 2020, 07:09:18 am

It's a work of art

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #16 – December 01, 2020, 10:39:28 am

I feel this is what my retirement will look like. I love using solid works and other CAD programs to do my designs. Great execution as well!

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #17 – December 01, 2020, 10:52:15 am

Just terrific!!

Pierce

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #18 – December 01, 2020, 11:24:40 am

I think I saw one of those set ups at Harbour Freight. Ha ha
That is the epitome of engineering a wet bay, congratulations are needed to every aspect of thinking it out. Even to the extent of changing out the oem door latches, which no one before has even tried, to the best of my knowledge.
Excellent John.
JohnH

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #19 – December 01, 2020, 04:28:32 pm

WOW.....

John, don't you know that your GV is way to old for such effort and investment. NOT....

You have just raised the bar MUCH higher, I predict this thread will be revisited many, many times.

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #20 – December 01, 2020, 06:32:27 pm

I have been reduced to rubble after seeing this awesome upgrade! Wow, WOW, wow!

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #21 – December 01, 2020, 09:25:09 pm

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – November 30, 2020, 06:46:52 pm

Wowwwwwww I'm speechless...

I am as well!

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #22 – December 01, 2020, 10:29:04 pm

Great work John. You're my new hero! My wet bay is a mess. I've have been planning a makeover for a long time. Thanks for the inspiration. Now to find the time and place to do it.

see ya
ken

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #23 – December 01, 2020, 11:47:57 pm

I finally had a chance to look at the pictures on something other than my phone's screen. The more I look, the better it is! Excellent space utilization and being able to bypass the technology in case of component failure takes the risk out of going hi tech. Love the vacuum retract on the sewer hose. I hope to see it in person someday. Going to Q in January?
Don

Re: Utility Bay Redesign

Reply #24 – December 02, 2020, 06:41:39 am

JohnFitz; amazing work , requires recognition ! Congratulations on the outcome and CadCam work !

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