How often should I drive my coach?

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How often should I drive my coach?

December 07, 2020, 01:41:13 pm

So we are living in our coach in Florida. How often should I take it for a drive?

Thanks

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #1 – December 07, 2020, 02:00:48 pm

Not sure what the "right" answer is but I make sure I take mine for about a 40 mile run every month to keep the tires in shape.

Safe travels and stay healthy!
Oscar

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #2 – December 07, 2020, 02:26:36 pm

Yes, minimum of 25 highway miles if you start the engine. Once every 3-4 weeks is great.

Store with a BIOCIDE in the diesel tank (Biobar JF is a common one) and diesel tank full to minimize condensation.

Run generator during the drive with at least 50% load.

Call it a BONDING EXPERIENCE!

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #3 – December 07, 2020, 02:29:00 pm

Run it hard enough to get the engine oil at full temp and use the brakes enough to keep them clean and true.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #4 – December 07, 2020, 02:35:01 pm

Heck, our reliable 31 year old coach sits in a storage building, minus batteries, from a week before Halloween all thru winter until around April 15. Then home 30 miles and then sit about a month without starting anything. Maybe it is our cold climate up here.
Starts instantly, idles smooth, gen starts after propane gets to it, and we go camping for a week or so with no problems with the coach.
My feeling? Run it when you feel like it, but don't feel bad if you have to let it sit awhile. If you do have to let it sit, prepare it for sitting.
Fluids topped off, fuel treatment, batteries disconnected, tires covered, do a weekly or monthly inspection.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #5 – December 07, 2020, 08:11:10 pm

The engine will condense moisture in the crankcase until the oil temperature reaches about 185 degrees. Only then does it START to evaporate the condensation. So, as Brett says, you must put on at least 25 highway miles or the condensation will cause rust and form acids to attack internal engine parts. Otherwise, don't start the engine unless it's to move the coach. Modern oils have additives to neutralize the rust and acids but can only do so much. A tell tale is removing the breather cap and finding a thin yellow/brown layer of foam in the cap.

When you shut off your engine, all the oil does not drain off the parts. A thin layer remains to protect them until the engine is started again.

Pierce

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #6 – December 07, 2020, 10:25:11 pm

I believe Brett and Pierce are spot on IMO.
That being said I Googled Cummins long term storage
Long-term storage of diesel engines and initial startup precautions after...
Then in the middle of the article they state
Quote
It is best to start the engine once a week if conditions permit, and run idling for 3-5 minutes. To ensure that the engine is always in good condition.

This goes against everything I've ever learned, But it is what the Engine manufacturer says. I'm going with option B use coach regularly to full operations temperatures and to work tires a bit to improve life.
Scott.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #7 – December 07, 2020, 10:49:43 pm

I'll go with the guy's who built the motor, been starting and high idling mine every month (weather permitting) since I brought the coach home 9 years ago. Each to his/her own.
Shame that I can't just pull the distributor and spin the oil pump up.
Seriously though, 35 years ago I had a GM Brigadier with a C motor with a pull out hand throttle. The instructions were to set at 800/850 rpm and run for 3-5 minutes.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #8 – December 07, 2020, 11:19:10 pm

Quote from: Olde English – December 07, 2020, 10:49:43 pm

I'll go with the guy's who built the motor, been starting and high idling mine every month (weather permitting) since I brought the coach home 9 years ago. Each to his/her own.
Shame that I can't just pull the distributor and spin the oil pump up.
Seriously though, 35 years ago I had a GM Brigadier with a C motor with a pull out hand throttle. The instructions were to set at 800/850 rpm and run for 3-5 minutes.

Article isn't a long read. They speak about fuel issues also. DWMYH? as long as your not getting evidence of water in your oil from cold combustion. Good stuff
Scott

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #9 – December 08, 2020, 08:57:01 am

Quote from: Olde English – December 07, 2020, 10:49:43 pm

I'll go with the guy's who built the motor, been starting and high idling mine every month (weather permitting) ...

Would appreciate a link to that advice from a diesel engine manufacturer. I can see that advice in certain limited applications-- for example where keeping the battery fully charged was more important than long-term engine life. But, not in an RV where either shore power or generator can provide that function.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #10 – December 08, 2020, 11:21:30 am

We are full time, during the May-October travel season we do 8k or so miles. During the winter in Yuma only a few short trips. I start and run the coach where ever I need to, at least once a month along with the generator and cycle all the systems. I seriously doubt anyone here will own a coach long enough to worry about internal damage from not running the engine long enough.JMHO, it's your coach DWMYFG.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #11 – December 08, 2020, 11:52:13 am

Quote from: bbeane – December 08, 2020, 11:21:30 am

I seriously doubt anyone here will own a coach long enough to worry about internal damage from not running the engine long enough.

I agree. Driving occasionally is more for tires, seals, etc.

And, driving once a month is NOT critical. If up north where weather is really cold, just fine to wait for that occasional nice weather to re-bond with your coach.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #12 – December 08, 2020, 12:03:13 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 08, 2020, 08:57:01 am

Would appreciate a link to that advice from a diesel engine manufacturer. I can see that advice in certain limited applications-- for example where keeping the battery fully charged was more important than long-term engine life. But, not in an RV where either shore power or generator can provide that function.

Brett, I believe that reply #6 has the link.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #13 – December 08, 2020, 12:12:06 pm

Quote from: Olde English – December 08, 2020, 12:03:13 pm

Brett, I believe that reply #6 has the link.

Thanks and WOW.

My reference material is packed, but does anyone have the handout from the Cummins maintenance seminars presented at FMCA Conventions. I don't recall anything like that being suggested for our application.

I KNOW that in their maintenance seminars Caterpillar recommends against starting unless run long enough/hard enough to get the oil up to operating temperature.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #14 – December 08, 2020, 02:08:02 pm

Idle information from all of the HD diesel manufacturers. This is just about as I posted earlier and direct from Cummins, CAT, etc, etc. They all caution about the engine damage from idling the engine more than a very short time.

For a more organized version, see this site: https://info.ornl.gov/sites/publications/Files/Pub61263.pdf

Quote

4.HEAVY-DUTY VEHICLESSummary of idling recommendations for HD vehicles •Idling beyond 5–15 minutes is excessive and should be avoided.•Extended idling wastes fuel and causes reduction in fuel economy.•Excessive idling can create engine wear and carbon soot buildup in the engine and components. •Idling produces sulfuric acid which can eat into engine surfaces and components. •Idle time at cooldown is only required if vehicle operated under extended, high power conditions. OEMRecommendationReferenceCaterpillarCat engines with ACERT technology do not require long cooldown periods. Therefore, do not idle for long periods of time. —If the vehicle is to be parked for more than 5 minutes, shut it down —If idling for heating or cooling, idle between 800 and 1,000 rpm A reduction in idle time from 50% to 25% can improve fuel economy up to 4%. Excessive idling wastes fuel, adds contaminants to the oil, and adds carbons to the combustion chamber. Allow the engine to warm up during the normal walk-around inspection. The engine will approach operating temperature while driving at low revolutions per minute and low power as you begin your trip.Cat | Products & Services – North America | Caterpillar combustion engines must not operate at low idle speed for extended periods of time. This operating condition may lead to poor engine performance. The idle shutdown feature, available on most Cummins engines, can be programmed to shut the engine down after a period of low idle speed operation with no driver activity. A flashing warning lamp will inform the driver of an impending shutdown. If an engine must idle for an extended period of time, it should be done at fast idle (1,000 rpm or greater). The Power Take Off (PTO) feature, available on most Cummins engines, can be programmed to adjust engine speed with the use of OEM switches to preprogrammed setpoints.Cummins Operation and Maintenance Manuals ISX,ISM, Sections 101-015,"Operating the Engine"InternationalBehaviors such as avoiding sudden accelerations and excessive idling can have a positive impact on each vehicle's fuel economy. For example, because idling yields 0.0 MPG, every hour of idling reduces fuel economy by 1%.IC Bus, LLC, School & Commercial Bus Fuel Economy, 2008Uses MaxxForce engines (see Navistar).Uses Cummins engine ISX15 (see Cummins). KenworthMinimize idling. Five minutes of warmup is generally adequate, and cooldown is accomplished when pulling in for parking. To verify the negative effect of excessive idling, watch the fuel economy display.Kenworth Truck Company, White Paper on Fuel Economy, 2006Uses PACCAR engines (see PACCAR).
Navistar (Parent company of International trucks, MaxxForce engines)MaxxForce Engines.Low idle speed for the MaxxForce DT, 9, and 10 diesel engines is 700 rpm (nonadjustable). If the engine coolant temperature is below 70°C (158°F), the electronic control module (ECM) will adjust the low idle speed from 700 rpm to a maximum of 875 rpm. High idle speed is a nonadjustable factory setting. The high idle setting depends on the application of the vehicle and has the following ranges: MaxxForce DT: 2,600 rpm through 2,770 rpm; MaxxForce 9 and 10: 2,325 rpm through 2,425 rpm. To prevent engine damage, do not extend low idle periods. Idling periods over 15 minutes should be avoided. Diesel engine efficiency is improved when the cylinder temperature remains high. Low temperature in cylinders may cause the following: (1) unburned fuel to seep from exhaust manifold gaskets and vehicle exhaust system connections (seepage has the dark-colored appearance of lubricating oil); (2) incomplete combustion, causing unburned fuel to wash lubricating oil from cylinder sleeves; (3) unburned fuel to be carried into the lubricating oil, diluting the oil and changingits viscosity; (4) carbon to form on turbocharger and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) components, reducing engine efficiency; and/or (5) carbon to clog and damage the diesel particulate filter (DPF).MaxxForce Engine Operation and Maintenance Manual 10 Diesel Engine, pages 55–58.Fast idle advance.The ECM monitors the engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor. If the ECT is below 50°F (10°C), the ECM activates the fast idle advance. Fast idle advance increases engine idle speed for faster warmup to operating temperature. This occurs by the ECM monitoring ECT and adjusting fuel injector operation accordingly. Low idle speed is resumed when ECT reaches temperatures above 50°F (10°C) or the 100–second period times out.Low idle speed for Navistar's 13L diesel engine is 600 rpm. If ECT is below 158°F (70°C) and cold ambient protection (CAP) is enabled, the ECM adjusts the low idle speed from 600 rpm to a maximum of 1,000 rpm. High idle speed is a nonadjustable factory setting.CAUTION: To prevent engine damage, do not extend low idle periods. Idling periods over 15 minutes should be avoided. Diesel engine efficiency is improved when the cylinder temperature remains high. Low temperature in cylinders may cause the following. •Unburned fuel seeping from exhaust manifold gaskets and vehicle exhaust system connections. This seepage has the dark-colored appearance of lubricating oil. •Incomplete combustion, causing unburned fuel to wash lubricating oil from cylinder sleeves. •Unburned fuel being carried into the lubricating oil, diluting the oil and changing its viscosity.•Carbon forming on internal components of turbocharger and EGR, reducing engine efficiency.•Carbon clogging and damaging the DPF.MaxxForce Engine Operation and Maintenance Manual 13L Diesel Engines
Navistarcont.All vehicles that are in compliance with the clean idle calibrations will have a "Certified Clean Idle" label applied to the hood or door of the vehicle.Before shutting down an engine that has reached operating temperature, idle the engine for 2 to 3 minutes, allowing the hottest engine components to dissipate some of their internal heat. Idling is recommended if an engine has been running at maximum horsepower.PACCAR Idle the engine 3 to 5 minutes before operating with a load.CAUTION: Do not allow your engine to idle, at low engine speeds (400–600 rpm), longer than 5 minutes. Long periods of idling after the engine has reached operating temperatures can decrease engine temperature and cause gummed piston rings, clogged injectors, and possible engine damage from lack of lubrication. The normal torsional vibrations generated by the engine can also cause transmission wear. If an engine must idle for an extended period of time, it should be done at fast idle (1,000 rpm or greater).Caution: Do not operate the engine at low idle for long periods with engine coolant temperature below the minimum specification in "Cooling System." This can result in the following: fuel dilution of the lubricating oil, carbon build up in the cylinder, cylinder head valve sticking, and reduced performance. If an engine must idle for an extended period of time, it should be done at fast idle (1,000 rpm or greater) until the coolant temperature meets the specification.Prolonged periods of idling after the engine has reached operating temperatures can decrease engine temperature and could cause engine damage from inadequate lubrication. The normal torsional vibrations generated can also cause transmission wear. An idle shutdown feature, available on PACCAR engines, can be programmed to shut the engine down after a period of low idle operation with no driver activity. A flashing warning lamp will inform the driver of an impending shutdown. Failure to comply may result in equipment or property damage.Never leave the engine idling when the vehicle is unattended. If the engine should overheat, immediate action is required to correct the condition. Failure to take immediate action may result in serious engine damage. If you must leave your vehicle unattended, shut down the engine.Do not idle the engine for excessively long periods. Long periods of idling, more than 10 minutes, can cause poor engine performanceAllow the engine to idle 3 to 5 minutes before shutting it off after a full-load operation. This allows adequate cooldown of pistons, cylinders, bearings, and turbocharger components, greatly increasing service life.PACCAR PX-9 Operators ManualIdle the engine 3 to 5 minutes before operating with a load.CAUTION: Do not allow your engine to idle, at low
PACCAR Cont.revolutions per minute(400–600 rpm), longer than 5minutes. Long periods of idling after the engine has reached operating temperatures can decrease engine temperature and cause gummed piston rings, clogged injectors, and possible engine damage from lack of lubrication. The normal torsional vibrations generated by the engine can also cause transmission wear. If an engine must idle for an extended period of time, it should be done at fast idle (1,000 rpm or greater).Caution: Do not operate the engine at low idle for long periods with engine coolant temperature below the minimum specification in "Cooling System." This can result in the following: fuel dilution of the lubricating oil, carbon build up in the cylinder, cylinder head valve sticking, and reduced performance. If an engine must idle for an extended period of time, it should be done at fast idle (1,000 rpm or greater) until the coolant temperature meets the specification.PACCAR Cont.Prolonged periods of idling after the engine has reached operating temperatures can decrease engine temperature and could cause engine damage from inadequate lubrication. The normal torsional vibrations generated can also cause transmission wear. An idle shutdown feature, available on PACCAR engines, can be programmed to shut the engine down after a period of low idle operation with no driver activity. A flashing warning lamp will inform the driver of an impending shutdown. Failure to comply may result in equipment or property damage.Idle the engine at 1,000 rpm for 4 minutes. Then low idle for 30 seconds before shutdown. This will allow circulating coolant and lubricating oil to carry heat away from the cylinder head, valves, pistons, cylinder liners, turbocharger, and bearings, preventing engine damage that could result from uneven cooling.PACCAR MX-13 Operator's ManualPeterbiltUses PACCAR engines (see PACCAR).Volvo Idling: Diesel engines are electronically governed. The idle speed is preprogrammed from the manufacturer. Low idle speed is adjustable within certain limits (for most engines between 600 and 750 rpm).The common belief that idling a diesel engine causes no engine damage is wrong. Idling produces sulfuric acid, which breaks down the oil and eats into bearings, rings, valve stems, and engine surfaces.Note: Avoid excessive idling. If the vehicle is parked for more than 5 minutes, stop the engine. An engine can burn from 3 to 5.5 liters (0.75 to 1.5 gallons) of fuel per hour while idling. During long engine idling periods, the engine coolant temperature may fall below the normal operating range. Incomplete combustion of fuel during the warmup period can cause dilution of the oil in the crankcase; formation of lacquer or gummy deposits on the valves, pistons, and rings; and rapid accumulation of sludge in the engine. US 2012 Operator's Manual

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #15 – December 08, 2020, 02:52:57 pm

There sure are a LOT of truck drivers that aren't following the rules then. We have stopped at bunches of rest stops and a few truck stops where there were a majority of the trucks RUNNING all nite long. Are all of those drivers clueless about the idling thing ? Or just don't give a s_ _it. It would seem with the electronics on board that the trucking co. Are aware of it and they don't care either.
Just sayin.

I suppose I'm missing something that the forum will enlighten me on.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #16 – December 08, 2020, 03:00:09 pm

You won't catch them idling in Ca. for more than 5 minutes.

https://www.ncsl.org/print/energy/dchenidling07.pdf

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #17 – December 08, 2020, 03:05:58 pm

It used to be a bigger problem but about 15 years or so ago companies started ordering or installing their trucks with dedicated generators and webasto style heaters. You can spot them easily, usually a stainless steel box 18" cube hanging low behind the cab/sleeper.

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #18 – December 08, 2020, 03:34:05 pm

Once you get oil pressure, just fast idle at 1000 rpm to avoid most of the problems listed above.

Diesel fueled air parking heaters are around $100 now so no excuse for idling to keep warm. Just like Webasto but not made in Germany. air parking heater - Google Search

Pierce

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #19 – December 08, 2020, 05:06:31 pm

Quote from: craneman – December 08, 2020, 03:00:09 pm

You won't catch them idling in Ca. for more than 5 minutes.

https://www.ncsl.org/print/energy/dchenidling07.pdf

OMG......sooooooo glad I'm outa there...lived in CA for 50 years....now livin life in SC ....Love It

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #20 – December 08, 2020, 09:17:39 pm

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – December 08, 2020, 05:06:31 pm

OMG......sooooooo glad I'm outa there...lived in CA for 50 years....now livin life in SC ....Love It

There is a good reason. Smog, cancer, wasted fuel. It's not just California but more and more states and counties are banning the practice. California does lead the world in emission controls and so many other fields.

Wish more people would leave. 70 degrees the last few days in the Sierras.

Pierce

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #21 – December 21, 2020, 10:37:18 pm

How do I fast idle my Cummins, can I do it with the cruise somehow without moving the coach or having my foot on the throttle?

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #22 – December 21, 2020, 10:38:54 pm

While running press cruise control power then set to increase
Scott
If your state allows

Re: How often should I drive my coach?

Reply #23 – December 21, 2020, 10:42:40 pm

On mine "set" is a medium idle and "res" is a high idle.

Driving is better than idling.

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