Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

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Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

January 26, 2021, 08:28:17 pm

We started living in our coach full time mid November in North Texas. Since then we have been through West Texas, California, Nevada, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, and Oklahoma. We've run the furnace or some variation of such every single day from a high of 60 to a low of 16 F. Naturally the block heater shorted out. Currently the high today has been 28 with a projected low of 20.

My 36' U270 has one big honking, loud propane furnace that heats the entire coach including some of the basement. In retrospect I would have insisted on a U320 with aqua hot, even with the extra maintenance and complexity. When the propane furnace is running I keep the bathroom door closed to reduce the noise, but when it comes on you know it and it wakes me up several times a night. It also cycles a lot. My coach has the original Coleman Duotherm AC units with heat strips. We also have two 1500 watt ceramic heating cubes (used inside the living area to supplement and modify heating zones) and two 200 watt ceramic cubes that live in the passenger and driver side bays with water systems. The basement cubes are on thermostatic outlets that come on at 37F and go off at 48 F when we have generator running or plugged in to shore power. I have two remote temperature transmitters that sit in each of those bay areas to monitor the basement temps.

The propane furnace does a good job of keeping the bays warm and in the past I have always switched to the propane furnace when temps got below freezing to protect the bays. Boondocking we run the furnace, period.

I'm spending the week in a state park with 50 amp service and full hook ups. We've been running both Duotherm units, which are noisy, but not as aggravating as the furnace. I've been monitoring the bays, they are staying at 38 to 40 all day and night with ambient temps 25 to 30. Is it possible that by keeping the coach inside at 70 it is creating enough radiant heat to keep the bays above freezing? I don't believe the bays have reached the threshold to kick on the two 200 watt heaters, at least not yet. Do some of you just turn your accessory bay heaters on and let them run when it gets to a certain temperature?

It seems like our Foretravel is at least a 3+ season coach, but I hope not to test it in bitter sub zero cold if possible. Covid is keeping us in places we might not choose along with sending us to places we might not choose at this time of year.

Please forgive the length of this post, but cold weather camping has lots of variables and it's pretty much new to us and rather specific to model and make.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #1 – January 26, 2021, 09:22:02 pm

We were put to the test this winter when we had a fire evacuation here in Colorado. We had an electrical hook up, I had one ceramic heater that was in the water bay on the drivers side. I just left it set at medium the whole time we were parked. I had a temp sensor in the water pump bay on the passenger side.
We got to a low temperature on minus 9 and the high was 34 for the 6 days we were in the coach.

The bay temp sensor ranged from a low of 46 to a high of 64 during the whole stay.

We did use the LPG furnaces inside the coach, we have a front and rear furnace. We kept both T Stats set at 70 during the day and the rear at 65 and the front at 67 while sleeping. We did not have any issues, and the rear didn't seem to run while sleeping. ( If it did, we did't notice it while sleeping). Just using the front furnace kept the coach warm enough even in the rear.

Never had any type of freeze issues at all. I really would call our FT a Four Season Coach after this experience. It actually made our evacuation a pleasant time all things considered. On a side note, there were several other evacuees with us in SOB's and many did have freeze issues.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #2 – January 26, 2021, 09:27:13 pm

You may want to check the blower, venting, etc. on your furnace. While they are relatively noisy, I don't think they should be so loud as to make you uncomfortable. On our previous coaches, they were not super loud either. You may be able to adjust the registers to quite down the air flow if that is the issue. If it sounds like motor noise, they may need attention too. Just throwing it out there.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #3 – January 26, 2021, 09:31:22 pm

See my post from 7 years ago.

Camping in Cold Weather-Long but hopefully useful

Rich

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #4 – January 26, 2021, 09:54:26 pm

Your radiant heat question about the coach temperature being at 70 being enough to keep the wet bay above freezing is an interesting thought. You really wouldn't know unless you tested it or put a thermometer down there. Personally, I would think it would not......because heat rises.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #5 – January 26, 2021, 10:01:43 pm

I do have remote transmitting thermometers in those bays.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #6 – January 26, 2021, 10:48:45 pm

If you keep your water heater on all the time, it adds some heat to one end of the wet bay. Every little bit helps!

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #7 – January 26, 2021, 11:12:31 pm

I do keep my water heater on all the time.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #8 – January 27, 2021, 02:14:40 pm

For the third night my wet and water bays stayed at 39 F without supplemental heat. Only thing I can figure is the "cold air" at the floor is getting to bays and keeping them at 39 to 41F, a 30 degree differential from living space being heated by roof mounted heat strips. The high of the day was 30 and 25 to 28 most of the time.

I opened the wet bay to dump tanks and fill water. Remote temp sensor dropped to 31 and the small 200 watt heater kicked on. After closing things up temps continued to rise until thermo switch hit 50 and heater shut down. Hour later it has settled down to 40 which is above the low temp threshold for restarting the little heater.

I have not used the propane heater for three days. The results surprise me. No recommendations for others, just trying to understand what is happening.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #9 – January 27, 2021, 02:19:59 pm

In the 6 months that I've been living in this coach full-time I've been in temperatures from a little below freezing to well north of 100°. From desert bone dry to tropical Storm conditions. And I found that it's equipped to handle all that and more. Currently in Sloan Arizona with temperatures in the low to mid-30s at night. I find that the biggest heat loss of course is with these large windows of which mine have all been replaced with motion windows. The McD shades do a really good job of insulating the window from the interior of the coach. But of course the star of this coach is the aquahot. I can hear my neighbor across the way propane heater but I can barely hear my aqua hot running. of course when the blowers come on inside the coach you can hear that but it's not real loud. In fact even with all three or four running at the same time it's not bothersome. I have a remote thermometer in the wet Bay and those temperatures are always in the mid-50s when it's in the thirties outside. I'm pretty certain that I would be quite comfortable in temperatures much lower. That is without using any additional heating. My Atwood AC units have heat pumps which I find are pretty much useless under 45° so I don't even use them now.
I do wish though that I put in some form of underfloor heating when I redid the floors. But I can always redo them and add something later if I chose to do that.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #10 – January 27, 2021, 03:32:11 pm

Quote from: Realmccoy – January 26, 2021, 08:28:17 pm

My 36' U270 has one big honking, loud propane furnace that heats the entire coach including some of the basement. In retrospect I would have insisted on a U320 with aqua hot, even with the extra maintenance and complexity. When the propane furnace is running I keep the bathroom door closed to reduce the noise, but when it comes on you know it and it wakes me up several times a night. It also cycles a lot.

The propane furnace does a good job of keeping the bays warm and in the past I have always switched to the propane furnace when temps got below freezing to protect the bays. Boondocking we run the furnace, period.

We've been running both Duotherm units, which are noisy, but not as aggravating as the furnace.

A couple of things that could make your LP furnace excessively noisy is dry blower motor bearings, or something in one of the blower wheels causing an imbalance. Removing the blower is a bit of work, but worth the effort to oil the bearings and check for a deceased critter, etc, in the blower wheel(s). We had these problems with or SOB. Over time, both units required the motor bearings to be oiled, and one had a small mouse (deceased) in the combustion air blower wheel. After lubing both bearings with Mobile 1 synthetic oil, and cleaning the wheel, I never had to mess with them again.

Greg

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #11 – January 29, 2021, 09:18:32 am

What I use is Reflective Insulation on the windshield it really helps both for the cold and stopping the solar load.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #12 – January 29, 2021, 10:00:57 am

We are enjoying the solar load during sunny winter days. Really amazing how much it heats up coach. Also indicates the summer challenge with all the glass area.

We love our windows as full timers. It provides us with a lot of psychological space. So many new SOBs lack windows. Need the wall space for all those TVs.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #13 – January 29, 2021, 04:26:41 pm

I agree winter solar load is great, it's summer solar load that I try and stop.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #14 – January 29, 2021, 04:29:20 pm

and here I am concerned about my winter living, and getting everything in place in my coach at -4 f and below, in Canada!!!
A whole different winter concept that I have to deal with!

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #15 – January 29, 2021, 05:50:26 pm

Quote from: Realmccoy – January 29, 2021, 10:00:57 am

We are enjoying the solar load during sunny winter days. Really amazing how much it heats up coach. Also indicates the summer challenge with all the glass area.

We love our windows as full timers. It provides us with a lot of psychological space. So many new SOBs lack windows. Need the wall space for all those TVs.

I know you've owned other RVs so I'm going to venture a guess that you'll be pleasantly surprised by your FT in the heat. If we were getting blasted by the sun in our 5th wheel, it was hell anywhere above 75 degrees. 85? Forget about it, you're running the AC and putting reflectix up in every window just to survive.

On the other hand, we just had the FT get blasted by sun on a cloudless, ~78 degree day near Yuma and I couldn't make up my mind about if I needed a sweater or not. Of course opening the windows, dropping the awnings, and putting the bathroom fan on helped but it was a completely different beast in the heat none the less.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #16 – January 30, 2021, 02:41:37 pm

Peter asked me to send him some pictures of extra things I have done to the coach
for added insulation and as couldn't figger out how to up load the pictures on the
email I will post them for all to see. The first picture is the insulation to go under
the waste pipe. The second is off the waste side but because of the hinge that is as
high as I could go. Third is the pump side and the forth shows a bit of the urethane
foam on the rear of the wet bay. It's too wet to crawl under the coach to get a better
picture.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #17 – January 30, 2021, 04:47:58 pm

Thanks Peter!
That is exactly the pics I was thinking of. I am considering doing the spray foam thing on the inside of each wet bay door. My only concern would be the weight and to make sure that the foam would not impede any of the hinges and mechanisms.
I currently run a lasko 200 watt heater in the waste bay and the manibloc bay, (maybe I will but a bigger heater or two in each bay)but in Canadian winters they barely keep up with the cold
Anyone considered raising the fresh water and waste tanks and putting an electric heat pad under them?

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #18 – January 30, 2021, 05:31:21 pm

The spray foam weighs very little but the mechanism and the hinges would be hard to work around. The Aqua-hot on electric
should be able to keep the wet bay from freezing. I have one heater plugged into the receptacle under the couch where the
amp was. On my coach all the receptacles from the bathroom to the table by the passengers seat are on one circuit including
the basement. I only want one heater per circuit.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #19 – February 06, 2021, 09:15:19 pm

When we were staying in really cold climes we would put "bubble wrap" foiled insulation in behind the windshield curtain and the windshield . We cut them to fit , and also had ones that would cover each of the other windows behind the curtains,

The other bit that seemed to help a lot was a board cut to fit the opening in the stair well. When we were closed in for the evening we would put all of that in place.

It really seemed to help a lot.

I also carried a bunch of six foot lengths of foam pipe insulation to put around our water hose. We never froze that up even in temperatures in the teens. That was used in conjunction with foam cutouts to insulate around our electric line and water hose where it exited the wet bay door.

Two small space heaters, a pile of thick quilts, and two fur covered four legged "personal heaters" rounded out our preparations.

Stay warm and healthy,
Len & Deb

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #20 – February 07, 2021, 12:21:35 pm

When it got cold in our rig it always felt like the cold was radiating from the front windshield. I bought some one inch foam boards and cut them into 4 pieces to fit the front windshield: one small piece on each side where the curved part of the front windshield meets the side of rv and then two pieces for the flat part of the front windshield. The I glued reflectix to one side of the foam boards. In the morning when the sun is coming in the front I can slide one piece of the front foam board over the other and let the sun come in. Made a big difference in the comfort of our RV in cold weather. I also found out that the insulation behind the front tv and cabinets had come unglued from front cap, so I scraped the old foam off the rubber sound dampening and put it back up with some rock-wool insulation.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #21 – February 07, 2021, 12:50:37 pm

Coach orientation can play a factor in minimizing/maximizing heat gain. During cool weather I park with the nose facing South, whenever possible, to maximize insolation. Of course, this assumes being in the Northern hemisphere.

For warm weather I try to park nose facing East to minimize insolation; could also park facing West, but I would rather have the gain through the windshield during the coolest, AM, hours.

Greg

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #22 – February 12, 2021, 07:58:11 am

Spray foam would be difficult to do on the doors, it's uncontrollable and expands to an uneven surface, may be easier to use a Celotex board with radiant heat barrier on it, or the bubble with radiant barrier. Just cut to size and install with a liquid nail adhesive.
FYI; there is no weight to spray foam in the quantities you would be using, just messy, great for filling gaps not for flat surfaces

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #23 – February 12, 2021, 08:56:17 am

When we have our little space heater going up front and we are in bed I have a small 120V fan, hanging up near the ceiling and above the front seats, that blows the stratified warm air towards the bedroom.
You would be amazed how well this keeps the air temp in the coach consistent from front to rear.

Re: Cold weather camping in a 1998 U270 - some preliminary observations

Reply #24 – February 12, 2021, 10:16:53 am

Weather we are plugged in or not, we use our Mr buddy heater. Nice no noise heat. Of course if temps get below freezing the gas furnace hast to run if we are not on shore power. If we are plugged in I put a 100 watt light in each side of the wet bays. Of course being retired I don't spend much time below 40 degrees.

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