Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

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Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

January 26, 2021, 01:18:02 pm

Quote from: Elliott – January 26, 2021, 11:52:57 am

Congrats and good luck drinking from the fire hose! I picked up my U320 about a month before you and have been going through much of the same learning curve. Couple take-aways I have thus far:
I'm very glad I had a brake inspection done while at MOT. My slide pins were toast.
I wish I'd had Keith Risch polish my fuel tank while in Nac. Scary thoughts haunt me at night now and it would have been cheap piece of mind.
[/list]
Welcome to the family and enjoy!

Polishing your fuel is a big waste of money. Sure, you fuel is clean but only for the moment. The next time you fuel, that could be the time you pick up the algae. There are only two kinds of diesel owners, those who have picked up algae and those who are going to.

Diesel exports and imports were my business in the 1970's for about ten years until I changed to new gasoline powered cars. In that time, there was almost zero control of the fuel quality here in the U.S. and I had to install Racor filters in all the diesels I sold. They were one micron and even if they didn't pick up any algae, they would clog after a few thousand from all the other contaminants.

Diesel fuel is much better now but algae has not been eliminated. Just carry extra filters and know how to install them. If you want, wait until your tank is low, tilt the coach to the side where anything will go to the side where the fuel cap is and stick a LED and a mirror so you can see the sides and bottom of the tank.

Underground tanks are better to fuel as the temperature remains pretty constant. Above ground tanks have enough temp change that air with moisture will be introduced and the condensation will run down the inside of the tank. The interface between the moisture and diesel is the sweet spot for algae to grow, especially in warm weather.

And stop worrying.

Pierce

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #1 – January 26, 2021, 01:40:22 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – January 26, 2021, 01:18:02 pm

Polishing your fuel is a big waste of money. Sure, you fuel is clean but only for the moment. The next time you fuel, that could be the time you pick up the algae. There are only two kinds of diesel owners, those who have picked up algae and those who are going to.

[significant portion of post quoted deleted for ease of reading response - Michelle]

Thanks, Pierce. This is great information.

I've read some folks use additives for algae. Is it worth it or even advisable? Are there additives you use and recommend?

Worrying, not so much.

Bit I am a project manager by trade, so I cant help thinking 4 steps down the road and identifying and anticipating risks. Definitely wanting to pull together a good list of spare parts and tools to carry.

I've learned tons from you post already.

Joe

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #2 – January 26, 2021, 01:51:11 pm

My view on diesel additives (mostly from the engineers at Caterpillar and Cummins):

If burning the fuel in the tank within 2 months summer/ 3 months winter add nothing.

If storing fuel longer than that, add a BIOCIDE (Biobar JF is a common one) AND fill the fuel tank full to minimize condensation.

The only other time you may need an additive is if you store in below freezing temperatures and filled up with summer-grade diesel. Then add an ANTI-GEL. Walmart carries the PS brand.

Fuel polishing IS call for if you have a tank of really contaminated fuel (like your new fuel filters clogged up in less than 100 miles). A very common practice on boats as well and for the same reason-- they sit more than they move.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #3 – January 26, 2021, 02:08:00 pm

Fuel tank polishing?? Not sure what that is.. Anyone??

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #4 – January 26, 2021, 02:16:58 pm

Often done in marine servicing of fuel. It is simply the process of running fuel thru filters separate from inboard systems. Then returning to inboard tanks. Can include cleaning of fuel tanks. Resulting fuel is considered "polished". Having had all bad removed.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #5 – January 26, 2021, 02:18:59 pm

Don't worry about algae until you see it in the fuel filters then address it. I picked up a generous dose in Jacksonville Fl at a TA.. Yes I can pinpoint where with a reasonable Amount of accuracy because I pay close attention to condition of filters and probably more regularly than the typical owner. I run a small fleet of diesel trucks and know the hazards of dirty fuel. When you see algae and it's not completely overwhelming you can then start treating with anti algae. I use and have gotten rid of algae with fppf Killem. I have a freightliner that was so contaminated we had to pull the tanks and wash out.. still treating it and now down to very small amounts and staining the fuel.. mean while drive the coach and have fun with it and don't become overwhelmed with what if problems. You see a lot of problems on here but there are thousands of us and many miles are traveled with zero issues. Have fun that's the only value in a toy... And welcome.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #6 – January 26, 2021, 02:58:44 pm

Good perspective on the polishing, thanks guys. I guess I'll have to find something else on the coach to spend my money on...shouldn't be hard

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #7 – January 26, 2021, 03:46:17 pm

Does the accumulation of algae only happen at certain temperatures? Do i need to worry about this with my coach stored for the winter in Canada?? It is currently -4 F here in Alberta....lol
Peter

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #8 – January 26, 2021, 03:54:59 pm

Quote from: dicksop – January 26, 2021, 03:46:17 pm

Does the accumulation of algae only happen at certain temperatures? Do i need to worry about this with my coach stored for the winter in Canada?? It is currently -4 F here in Alberta....lol
Peter

Temperature is not a significant factor, though warmer temps promote faster algae growth.

Most significant way low temperature can be a negative is if the tank is not full of fuel. Cold temperatures cause condensation so the humidity in any air in the tank will condense.

Algae only lives at the diesel/water interface.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #9 – January 26, 2021, 04:31:29 pm

Brings up another point if not already mentioned, keep your fuel tank full when parking for extended periods.. When I get to my home town after a trip I fill mine to the brim before letting the buildings door down. Cuts down on condensation on the fuel tank walls.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #10 – January 27, 2021, 08:36:16 am

I'd never heard of this 'polishing' til lately either. Maybe some marketer drummed up another term?

I have come to the conclusion that adding a stabilizer to the fuel, every tank, is very cheap. Most importantly I don't have to guesstimate if the generator has treated fuel, or have to treat the current tank then run the generator. Diesel is not so bad, gasoline is total crap for storage.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #11 – January 27, 2021, 08:55:53 am

Quote from: markb – January 27, 2021, 08:36:16 am

I'd never heard of this 'polishing' til lately either. Maybe some marketer drummed up another term?

Yes, a much more commonly known term/procedure in the marine industry. Certainly not new.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #12 – January 27, 2021, 09:17:08 am

I tried polishing fuel once, couldn't get the wax to stay on!

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #13 – January 27, 2021, 09:19:46 am

Some of the reasons I replaced my primary fuel filte with a Davco 382 installled in an easily accessible space.

The filter element is viewable, you can see exactly what you've been filtering out of fuel.
The restiction, or level of clogging is instantly viewable. Gives you plenty of notice before a change is required.
The filter elements are large, high quality and inexpensive. Big honking o-rings come with each element.
Before you change filters it's easy to drain fuel out of the housing using drain valve.
This drained fuel is already filtered....you simply pour it back into the top of the filter housing through the large access port after filter element is replaced.
Filter comes with a check valve on inlet peventing backflow to tank during service.
If you should have an air leak on intake side the bubbles are readily apparent in clear filter housing.
It's a premium piece of kit at a reasonable price.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #14 – January 27, 2021, 11:08:31 am

Chuck,

I can see why you chose it. Looks quality and $300 is cheap if you ever get a big load of algae at the pump. But, as you say, you have to install it where you will at least glance at it when checking the oil, etc. Not a bad idea to take a look after fueling or at a rest stop as water/algae will be at the bottom of the tank and may find their way to the filter in a short time.

The only thing I don't see is a set of internal probes for water. Some Racors have that but then you would need to wire it to the front plus have the amplifier it take to make it work.

I remember the first Olds diesels. There was a lot of wax in the fuel because of poor refinery work and not many stations had fuel filters at the pump. GM never put in a fuel tank drain so each trip to the shop meant a new fuel tank.

DAVCO 382950FTLS07 FILTER SYSTEM OEM, FUEL WATER SEPARATOR 382, DVC/382950FTL...

Pierce

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #15 – January 27, 2021, 11:18:50 am

For those who don't have $300 in the budget, the Chinese have an alternative for under $70 with the probes but without an amplifier. I would want to see a few reviews to make sure the O rings were adequate and no one had any air introduced into the system.

New 1000 Series Diesel Fuel Filter Water Separator Equivalent For 1000FH...

Pierce

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #16 – January 27, 2021, 11:37:59 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – January 27, 2021, 11:08:31 am

The only thing I don't see is a set of internal probes for water.

Davco #102871 water probe # just need a new connector

Mike

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #17 – January 27, 2021, 11:48:02 am

Quote from: dicksop – January 26, 2021, 03:46:17 pm

Does the accumulation of algae only happen at certain temperatures? Do i need to worry about this with my coach stored for the winter in Canada?? It is currently -4 F here in Alberta....lol
Peter

If you have an algae that grows quickly at -4F, patent it.

FWIW, for most of us, if you keep your eyes open you will notice the fuel polishing trucks at gasoline stations. All that alcohol in gasoline? 10% of 3,000 gallons is how much alcohol? Imagine it all coming out of solution at once along with the water it is carrying. Imagine you're the next guy to full up your car. Removing the water and mixing in octane boosting additives is a steady business.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #18 – January 27, 2021, 11:54:02 am

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – January 27, 2021, 11:37:59 am

Davco #102871 water probe # just need a new connector
Mike

But that is an additional $70 plus an amplifier as the probes don't do anything by themselves. Racor RK30880E REPL KIT WIF SENSOR AMPLIFIER

No algae in cold weather. The best environment for algae growth is warm weather, a partial tank and high humidity. Add biocide to your tank. Bio Kleen Diesel Fuel Biocide - Power Service

While biocide kills the algae, it won't remove it or the water from the tank so a good primary filter is still needed.

Pierce

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #19 – January 27, 2021, 12:51:12 pm

You actually have a pretty good fuel polishing system built right in your coach, except the filters are smaller. Your fuel is used for cooling and is returned to the tank many times before it is actually used for the engine. Keep spare filters and know how to change and bleed the system after changing them.
Scott

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #20 – January 27, 2021, 04:55:52 pm

In a 20 yr old coach you will likely have lots of junk in the bottom of the tank. Dead algae, algae poop, sludge, goo, whatever. Fuel polishing as Keith Risch does it is about cleaning the tank, the fuel is the medium to stir it all up suck it all out and run it through the filters. When he is done your tank is clean as well as the fuel in it.

It costs about what 2 sets of quality fuel filters cost. Of course you can just wait until your coach chokes on sludge and change your filters on the side of the road. And probably again the next day if you have a second set of filters.

Not everyone gets much junk out of the tank. Ours pretty much filled Keith's filters with whatever was in there, nasty stuff. For us, worth every penny.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #21 – January 27, 2021, 07:11:13 pm

Roger,

I check our tank all the time in our 28 year old coach with 110,000K and their is nothing but shiny aluminum in the bottom. I lean the coach over too.

Not much of an effort to drop one side and use a mirror and LED light to check it. Best if the tank is down a ways. You can also check the sides and baffle for black algae sticking to to sides.

A pump with a hose lowered into the tank would pull out any algae or dirt. I expect the primary filter catches about everything that gets into the tank. In all the diesel vehicles I've sold, I only had to open the drain on my 406D down in Mexico many years ago to flush out sand and gravel from a bad station.

Pierce

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #22 – January 27, 2021, 07:20:17 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – January 27, 2021, 07:11:13 pm

Not much of an effort to drop one side and use a mirror and LED light to check it. Best if the tank is down a ways. You can also check the sides and baffle for black algae sticking to to sides.

Pierce

YUP, an easy check just before you fill up.

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #23 – January 27, 2021, 08:04:51 pm

I was quite impressed that our 20 year old coach fuel tank was spotless on the inside. Looked like the day they built it new. 53k when I changed lines. If you pull your sender out you have a clear view of the tank bottom with a flashlight
Scott

Re: Fuel polishing? (split from Re: Officially part of the Foretravel Family!)

Reply #24 – January 27, 2021, 08:08:53 pm

Amazon.com: Racor Polisher Diesel 10m 12v/24v P510mam: Automotive
Scott

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