50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Topic: 50A outlet in the generator compartment? (Read 2725 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #25 – February 24, 2021, 08:41:55 am

I had FT install that plug after I bought the coach. During a blackout I run an extension cord to power my fridge, a tv, and some lights but would never tie it into the home system.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #26 – February 05, 2022, 11:46:37 am

The recent cold snap in TX, although of short duration, brought back memories of last years 2nd Ice Age. It also reminded me of this topic. Back then I expressed a interest in putting one of these outlets on our 10kW generator, but never got a "Round-Tuit" (as Bill used to say).

But now I'm thinking about it again. Buying the materials is no problem. I'm wondering if any of our electrical savvy members could go into detail on how exactly this outlet would tie into the existing generator wiring. I don't want to go through the electrical panel in the coach. I want the switch to be mounted right on the generator, as shown in the photos earlier in this thread. I want the outlet to put out power exactly the same as a camp ground 50 amp pedestal outlet.

I DON'T want to get into the details of how to connect this outlet to our house (which is my ultimate goal). Once I have the functional outlet mounted on our generator, I will hire a pro electrician to arrange a way to connect to the house that is legal and safe. There are many Youtube videos on this subject, and I fully understand the importance of "doing it correctly".

SO, how does one wire one of these handy outlets? Diagrams would be great, or photos of a actual buddy outlet installation.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #27 – February 05, 2022, 12:03:28 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 05, 2022, 11:46:37 am

I want the outlet to put out power exactly the same as a camp ground 50 amp pedestal outlet.

Before going ahead with the 4 prong 240V 50 amp box and outlet, is your generator capable of 240V or is it wired only for 120V?

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #28 – February 05, 2022, 12:12:51 pm

Quote from: prfleming – February 05, 2022, 12:03:28 pm

...is your generator capable of 240V or is it wired only for 120V?

I don't know. How do I test to find out? Without killing myself...

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #29 – February 05, 2022, 12:17:10 pm

I know the generator can be wired for 240 as I phoned Tech and asked but he didn't
recommended it. As Dans generator plug is wired 240 it would be interesting to see
how it is done. I have a 30 amp 240 generator that I have used once, but to run off
the coach generator would be a lot handier and I usually have a full tank of fuel. I'm
with Chuck I would like to see how it's done.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #30 – February 05, 2022, 12:27:47 pm

If you are comfortable taking the main breaker panel off, with a voltmeter set to measure 250 VAC, measure across the 2 "hot" leads coming to the main breaker with shore power disconnected and generator running. If you see approx 240 VAC then generator is producing 240 VAC. If you see 0 VAC, then generator is wired for 120 VAC. Either way you should see 120 VAC from each "hot" lead to neutral.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #31 – February 05, 2022, 12:38:17 pm

Peter,

Thanx for the help. I replaced our shore power/generator ATS with a manual switch. The switch is easily accessible under the bed platform. The cable from the generator to the switch has 3 wires: black, white and red (plus a bare copper ground wire). Would measuring voltage between the red and black wires tell me what I want to know? See photos in link below:

Transfer switch questions

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #32 – February 05, 2022, 12:47:00 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 05, 2022, 12:38:17 pm

...Would measuring voltage between the red and black wires tell me what I want to know?...

Yes

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #33 – February 05, 2022, 12:49:54 pm

Quote from: prfleming – February 05, 2022, 12:47:00 pm

Yes

KOOL. I can do that with minimal danger of electrocution. Might wait a day or two for warmer OAT before firing up the genny. I'll get back to this thread when I have the test result!

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #34 – February 05, 2022, 01:04:53 pm

Looks like 49° at 4:00 today...

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #35 – February 05, 2022, 02:19:46 pm

I am interested in this too. I would like to plug in the 50A plug but allow the generator door (mine is in the front) to be closed. I guess I need to measure mine too, but I thought I read that it is 120V. I keep meaning to call Powertech but whenever I have time, they are closed already.

I do have a 50A plug on my house, it provides shore power to the coach. An electrician came out and said with that plug there, it would be easy to provide power to the house from a generator by adding a breaker. I would hire someone to do this professionally.

Will watch this thread and hope that more details come along

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #36 – February 05, 2022, 02:22:25 pm

Chuck what kind of generator do you have.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #37 – February 05, 2022, 03:33:40 pm

Quote from: oldguy – February 05, 2022, 02:22:25 pm

Chuck what kind of generator do you have.

Powertech 10kW with 4-cylinder diesel. The yellow decal is gone from our generator so I don't know the specific model number or any details. See photos in link below:

1993 generator issues

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #38 – February 05, 2022, 03:43:52 pm

As far as I know all of the Foretravel PowerTech generators (at least those of the 90s vintage) are capable of producing 240V but are wired for 120V. My understanding is that their voltage regulator circuitry can't produce equally-balanced voltages on the two legs when wired for 240V service unless the loads on both legs are nearly equally balanced.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #39 – February 05, 2022, 04:32:27 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – February 05, 2022, 03:43:52 pm

As far as I know all of the Foretravel PowerTech generators (at least those of the 90s vintage) are capable of producing 240V but are wired for 120V. My understanding is that their voltage regulator circuitry can't produce equally-balanced voltages on the two legs when wired for 240V service unless the loads on both legs are nearly equally balanced.

A way to provide equally balanced generator loading is to convert the generator to 240V and add a 240V - 120V/240V auto-transformer. Victron has a 32 amp and 100 amp option.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Autotransformer/Victron_Energy_Autotransformer-en.pdf

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #40 – February 05, 2022, 04:59:29 pm

If you are talking about emergency power for your house, even if just 120 VAC, I see no problem in wiring a "pseudo-50 amp outlet"

Yes, your neutral would be the limiter (as it carries the SUM of amps instead of DIFFERENCE), but that is exactly the same as in your coach.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #41 – February 05, 2022, 05:38:25 pm

OK, I went out and fired up the generator. It hasn't been run in a couple months, and has been soaking in 10-15 degree (F) temps for the past few nights. Cranked instantly first try after only 30 seconds of preheat! Running smooth as silk. I LIKE our old generator!

Ran the multimeter check on the 3 wires that connect our generator to my manual switch. As stated by D.J. and suspected by Peter, my generator only puts out 120 volts.

Between the black and red wire I got zero volts.
Between the black and white wire I got 121.4 volts.
Between the red and white wire I got 121.4 volts.

So now the question is:
1. Mod the generator to put out 240 volts? What is required? How much does it cost? Who can do it?
OR
2. Settle for a 30 amp 120 volt "Buddy Plug" on the generator?
OR
3. What Brett says (above) of which I need a better explanation.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #42 – February 05, 2022, 05:46:27 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 05, 2022, 05:38:25 pm

So now the question is:
1. Mod the generator to put out 240 volts?
1a. What is required?
1b. How much does it cost?
1c. Who can do it?
2. Settle for a 30 amp 120 volt "Buddy Plug" on the generator?
3. What Brett says (above) of which I need a better explanation.

Chuck,
1. No
1a. Moving a couple of wires in the end bell
1b. $0.00
1c. You
2. No
3. Yes or said another way make it a fake 50 amp and don't run any 240 v devices
Seems like there is a wiring diag. somewhere in the media section that shows a true 50 and a fake 50
Mike

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #43 – February 05, 2022, 07:12:17 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 05, 2022, 05:38:25 pm

OK, I went out and fired up the generator. It hasn't been run in a couple months, and has been soaking in 10-15 degree (F) temps for the past few nights. Cranked instantly first try after only 30 seconds of preheat! Running smooth as silk. I LIKE our old generator!

Ran the multimeter check on the 3 wires that connect our generator to my manual switch. As stated by D.J. and suspected by Peter, my generator only puts out 120 volts.

Between the black and red wire I got zero volts.
Between the black and white wire I got 121.4 volts.
Between the red and white wire I got 121.4 volts.

So now the question is:
1. Mod the generator to put out 240 volts? What is required? How much does it cost? Who can do it?
OR
2. Settle for a 30 amp 120 volt "Buddy Plug" on the generator?
OR
3. What Brett says (above) of which I need a better explanation.

You could have Roger design a complicated multi-pole, double-throw switching system (installed in your motorhome) to have the generator supply 120V power to the motorhome and then switch to supply 240V power to the new outlet. Then you would need to have installed (in your home) the 100 Amp auto transformer Peter suggested, which would then be followed by a transfer switch to isolate your home from the utility power.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #44 – February 05, 2022, 07:23:18 pm

Trouble is, one of my highest priority items to run (when the grid goes down) is our 240V water well pump.

The more complicated this sounds, the lower my enthusiasm to tackle the project.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #45 – February 05, 2022, 07:34:40 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 05, 2022, 07:23:18 pm

Trouble is, one of my highest priority items to run (when the grid goes down) is our 240V water well pump.

The more complicated this sounds, the lower my enthusiasm to tackle the project.

My more-realistic suggestion would be to install a standby-generator system from Generac. We installed a partial-home system using a sub-panel for our essential circuits and a generator and automatic-transfer switch sized for the essential loads. This has worked quite well for us—including the 7-day period we we without utility power after a tornado passed within 1/2 mile of our house.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #46 – February 05, 2022, 07:46:09 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 05, 2022, 07:23:18 pm

Trouble is, one of my highest priority items to run (when the grid goes down) is our 240V water well pump.

The more complicated this sounds, the lower my enthusiasm to tackle the project.

Pierce bought a step up transformer for his well.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #47 – February 05, 2022, 08:15:20 pm

Chuck, in 2007 our part of Missouri was hit with a huge ice storm. The question wasn't "Did you lose power?" but rather "How long were you out?" We had a wood-burning fireplace, and lots of trees, so we thought we were fine. Then came the ice storm. After that I bought a $2000 generator and built a $20,000 garage/shop for it. No more ice storms like that one.

I'd suggest that you just buy a generator that will power your well pump and some of your house. Might be a simpler solution. You might even be able to put the generator on a truck or trailer and then you could take it out to the back 40 where there is no electricity to help you with some of those long-delayed projects.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #48 – February 05, 2022, 08:26:00 pm

Chuck, I'm in the same position and have to power a well. Following this thread, it is discouraging.

The other option I've also been looking into is a PTO generator since I have some tractors. Some folks are not fans of them but I don't share that mindset. Do you have a tractor? A good non-Chinese pto gen with 10-15kw is 2000-2500. That would be ample for the well and to run everything in the house using load management.

Re: 50A outlet in the generator compartment?

Reply #49 – February 05, 2022, 09:07:41 pm

You may find it easier to install a new 50-amp breaker in your main breaker panel, connect a 4-wire #6 cable to the new breaker and have a female 50-amp campground outlet on the other end of the #6 cable. This way you have a safe, easy method to manage breaker to protect the new cable and outlet.

If your main breaker panel is accessible and it has an open breaker slot this will be straight forward. Just snap in the breaker and wire the black & red to breaker, and white & ground to bus bars. We used a short 50-amp shore cable with a molded female outlet and a cutoff male end connected to the breaker panel, with breaker normally turned off. The molded female eliminated the need for wiring box.

Your setup will be for emergency and your generator will not be able to supply whole house needs, so just manage house loads when using your emergency generator to run furnace, refrig etc. No need to have emergency 220 volts to run cooktop, dryer, electric hot water tank. Generator will supply power to whole house, but you will have to manually manage it ALL.

As mentioned, RV generators are usually like yours, not producing 240 volts. RV 240 volts generators can cause problems. And 120 volt generators can cause different problems. No such thing as perfect solution. Keep yours 120 volt and manage all loads so the do not total much more than 50 to 60 amps. Loads much higher can damage white neutral wire, transfer switch, etc. Powertech uses a neutral wire larger then #6 to the first junction box, but all other neutral wiring in coach is #6, which is limited to 50-60 amps. Everyone should manage all generator loading to prevent damages. Motorhome generator is not the same as campground power or house power.

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