Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires

Topic: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5 (Read 4215 times) previous topic - next topic

Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

February 27, 2021, 12:41:15 pm

Hi All,

I may be buying a 2004 U320 soon. I'm planning to replace the aging tires on that coach.

For that 40' with Tag Axle and 8 tires, I was thinking of using 295/75R22.5. But, unfortunately, FMCA does not list the 295/75R22.5 in the list of tires on sale. So, I'm looking for advice on what my options are for the coach.

1 - FMCA does offer various 275/80R22.5 LRH and some of the 295/80R22.5 LRH.

2 - Is the 275/80R22.5 LRH tire undersized for any of the axles in the MH? I think FT eventually went to the 295/75R22.5. Here are the 275/80R22.5 LRH tires on sale from Michelin.

XLine Energy Z
XZE 149 L
X MultiEnergy Z

If I go with the 275, I wonder which one of the above would work best for the MH?

The MultiEnergy is also available as a "MultiEnergy D" for the drive axle but only in a LRG. I wonder if a "G" load rating is okay for the drive axles?
Should I put "D" tires for the drive axles? Can the steer axle tire, e.g. MultiEnergy Z be used in the drive axles?

3 - Since the 295/75R22.5 are not available through FMCA, I wonder if I can use the 295/80R22.5 on the MH. Slightly taller than the 295/75R22.5.

Choosing a tire seems to be part art part science. Thanks in advance for the help with this.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #1 – February 27, 2021, 01:00:45 pm

295/80/22.5 will rub when mounted on the front axle. Haven't seen any posts of them on the rear but probably a problem too.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #2 – February 27, 2021, 01:38:41 pm

I have all steer tires on our coach.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #3 – February 27, 2021, 01:52:59 pm

Roger,

Since the steering tires work in the drive and tag axles as well, why would Michelin be making tires specifically for the drive axles? The drive axle tires from Michelin that I got a quote on were more expensive than the same type "MultiEnergy" steering tires and at a lower "G" rating than the "H" rating of the same type of steering tires. Is the saving on diesel that much better with "D" tires on for drive and tag axles?

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #4 – February 27, 2021, 02:09:26 pm

275/80R22.5 is the correct size tire for a '04.

The Michelin X Multi Energy Z (H) gives me the best ride because it requires 15lbs less pressure than all other tires of that size and load range to carry the same axle weight.

I don't know about the tag axle but for the other two axles I would get all the same 275/80R22.5 steer tires in the correct load range.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #5 – February 27, 2021, 02:19:29 pm

Steer tires on all wheel positions is the recommended tire.

Traction tires are more for trucks operating in slick/off road conditions. Not recommended for a motorhome.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #6 – February 27, 2021, 02:49:21 pm

Wow, the collective experience of members in this forum is awesome. The knowledge shared by others and provided via this forum sure makes it easier when deciding that it is okay to buy an older Foretravel motorhome.

Now I need to decide which Michelin tire to purchase, or if I should go with Toyo, Goodyear or other. I can probably save some money by going with Toyo, but Michelin do show up in many motorhomes. Nothing wrong with sticking with what we know, I guess.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #7 – February 27, 2021, 02:56:00 pm

You will want to get H load rated tires. They have a higher weight capacity than the G load rating at the same air pressure, a higher maximum load capacity and have a stiffer side wall which makes then feel more stable especially in cross winds.

For the same axle load you can run H rated tires at a lower pressure. Your front axle fully loaded will exceed the capacity of a G rated tires.

Best practice is to have the coach loaded as it would normally be when traveling with empty waste tanks, full fresh water tank, full fuel tank and weigh each corner and then set set the tire pressured for each axle based on the higher corner weight on each axle according to the tire load/psi charts. Most go up to the next higher level for some flexibility in weights. Our coach seemed to gain weight for a few years while we figured out what to bring and then lose some as we figured out what we didn't need. It is a bit different with a tag as that carries part of the rear load. Someone with a tag can say how to set the rear axle and tag axle pressures.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #8 – February 27, 2021, 03:35:24 pm

Would be preferred to get the coach weighed and know that H tires meet your needs. Not all H carry the same rating. I was looking for function over form and the Toyo M 177 H fit my needs well. All steer tires. Michelin probably will be the best accepted tires by owners. Mine may be a little noisier, but I'll never know for sure. Very happy with my purchase. Purchased thru a COOP in Arkansas for $2400 for six. Cheaper than what I could find online. 100% happy with them. Currently would repeat in the future. I have 6500 miles so still new to me. Side note. 100% recommend truck size tire balance beads and personally am very happy with my TST TPMS. Better than a spare IMO. Wouldn't operate without. 👍👍
Scott

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #9 – February 27, 2021, 03:49:02 pm

Peter, I sent you a PM. Please call

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #10 – February 28, 2021, 12:26:58 pm

295/75R22.5 would be my choice in G or H depending on your weight. Lower profile means more rubber on the ground. Lots of motorhomes with Michelin tires but they also have a reputation for zipper sidewalls and poor casing life. Lots of good tires on the market from all over the world. Don't think country of manufacture makes the slightest difference.

Good read here on tire brand rating: Top 10 Best Commercial Truck Tire Brands. | This is just the beginning of...

After a flat, I put a new Firestone (Bridgestone) on and many years later, the sidewalls do not have even a trace of a crack. Same can't be said for the other tires. I'm about to replace all except the Firestone. Bridgestone recommends a maximum of 15 years for their casings used in recapping.

Then you have to decide on regional or line/long haul tires.

Pierce

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #11 – February 28, 2021, 08:37:19 pm

So Michelin does not make a 295/75R22.5. Their "H" load rated 275/80R22.5 is maxed at 7160 lbs. The GAWR for the 2004 U320 is 14320 lbs. So the "H" rating just meets the GAWR. I would prefer a better load rating. Some more room for off-balanced weighing on the front axle.

I did some research into the Bridgestone, but their "H" rated that I saw, the R268 Ecopia 149L is also 7160 lbs. Pierce, is there another Bridgestone that I should consider for better load rating?

I haven't had a chance to look at any other tires.

I do agree that I think there may be a better and cheaper tire for motorhomes than the Michelin. I won't select the Michelin until I finish this research.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #12 – February 28, 2021, 11:48:26 pm

Full timing with everything we own on board. 2003 40' U320 dual slide, tag axle. Continental 275/80R22.5 H rated tires.

Oregon weigh station (closed) 6/28/2020
Fuel approx. 150 gal, water only approx. 35 gal, black/grey empty (add 900 lbs for full water/fuel)

and Oregon weigh station (closed) 7/8/2020
Fuel approx. 130 gal, water 85 gal, grey/black empty

Steer 12,850 6/28, 12,850 7/8. P.O 12,175 (equal 105 psi or 110 psi margin for tires on coach)
(P.O = previous owner weight reading)

Drive 16,100 6/28. 18050 7/8. (difference likely due to position on scale) P.O 16,600 (equal 75 psi) (or 80-85 psi margin)

Tag 7,050 6/28, 7150 7/8. P.O. 7,300 (equal 75 psi (min recommended) (or 80 huge margin)

7/8/2020 drive and tag combined = 25,300

On 7/8 Total Coach: 38,150 on 6/28 36,000 Previous owner 36,075
H rated 275/80R 22.5 (using Michelin pressure chart)

Steer @ 6500 - 6600:
105 psi = 6435 min (12,870)
110 psi = 6680 for a margin (13,360)

Drive Duals @ 8600 for margin:
75 psi = 9080 dual, 4915 single (min) (18160)
80 psi = 9560 dual, 5175 single (with margin) (19120)
85 psi = 10,030 dual, 5435 single (large margin)
90 psi = 10,500 dual, 5690 single

Tag @ 7300:
75psi = 4915 (large margin (9830)
80 psi = 5175

***** WE NOW USE 110/80/75 PSI AS NORMAL *****

***** WINTER - NOW SET AT 114/85/80 PSI AT 50 DEGREES - MARGIN FOR COLDER DAYS *****

275/80R22.5 H rated tires.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #13 – February 28, 2021, 11:50:08 pm

Here is the standard load rating chart for tires. The 295/75R22.5 ratings are down a bit from the top on the page. https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/400c5684/files/uploaded/Load,%20Inflation%20table.pdf

Anytime you are going to put 120 psi cold in a tire that is H rated, the ride may be a bit firmer than expected.

Lots of good tires on the market from lots of different manufacturers. The tires that cost the most will usually advertise the most so cost is not a reliable indicator of the quality of the tire.

Since RVs don't rack up a lot of miles compared to big rigs, the longevity of the casing should be one of the top priorities. In other words, no cracks in the sidewall should develop.

I like tires with a fairly firm sidewall for several reasons. The are less prone to damage from curbs, etc and they don't allow the coach to move as much in crosswinds and uneven pavement. For coaches with a high seating position like a U280/U300, a driver who can't resist constantly moving the steering wheel will make for a unpleasant ride for passengers.

Usually, the heavier the tire, the better the quality.

I can't understand someone who buys a tire with lots of tread depth and then goes and have some shaved off.

Pierce

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #14 – March 01, 2021, 04:46:35 pm

So what I just realized is that the maximum load rating found with some "H" tires is going to be plenty for the coach. The GAWR for the front axle of the 2004 U320 is 14200 lbs. For my plans, I should never get close to that weight. So two tires that each have 7160 lbs rating is fine. I think the CCC of the coach is over 6000 lbs. As per Dan's entry above, his steer axle load, while fully loaded for fulltiming, is under 12900 lbs. I don't plan to add much more than that to my coach, so that should keep me under the ratings of the "H" tires. My current plan is to add solar and lithium batteries to the coach. From the pictures that I have of the roof of the coach, most of those solar panels can only go towards the back section of the roof. That's weight for the rear axle to handle. The U320 already has a lot of other stuff mounted on the front section of the roof.

In addition to the solar panels, I plan to remove the 3 8D batteries in the coach and replace them with Lithium 8D batteries from Battleborn. Possibly, their new Lithium BB8D 8D sized 270 AH batteries. Those batteries are 80 lbs instead of the 8D batteries in the motorhome at over 140 lbs? So that will save some weight. If there is more room, I my add more Lithium batteries in other places in the coach. The lithium upgrade would definitely be nice for a trip to a Harvest Host or other boondocking scene. Three of the BB8D would provide about 800 AH of fully useable power at 12 V (9.6 KW-Hr). That is definitely nice.

Pierce, I liked what you said about selecting the tire with the best casing and stiffest sidewall. I'll look at those specs for the Michelin, Toyo, Bridgestone and others.

I also like the idea of going with the 295/75R22.5 instead of the 275/80R22.5. The wider tire would maximize how much rubber is on the road. But, I need to find an "H" rated 295 with a rating close to that of a 275/80R22.5 at 7160 lbs.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #15 – March 01, 2021, 05:41:36 pm

I have a 2004 U320 3820 and put Michelin 295/80R22.5 XZA2 ENERGY 152M LRH on my coach. No problems with rubbing on the steer axle. Maybe I just got lucky

. I spoke with Tyle Fore at FOT and he told me it should not be a problem and it has not been.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #16 – March 01, 2021, 05:51:18 pm

Oscar and Janet, that is great news. If I can, I would rather have the 295/80R22.5 as well. The typical 295/80R22.5 "H" tire has about a 7400lb rating at 115 psi. With Dan's reported "typical" weight on the front axle of about 12900 lbs, that means I could lower the running pressure on those tires by a lot. That is good, right? BTW, I'm learning more about tires than I really wanted to know.

The 2004 U320 that I'm looking at is a 4020. I may have to give FOT a call.

Did you get a chance to change the drive and tag tires with the same tire as well?

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #17 – March 01, 2021, 05:56:12 pm

"In addition to the solar panels, I plan to remove the 3 8D batteries in the coach and replace them with Lithium 8D batteries from Battleborn. Possibly, their new Lithium BB8D 8D sized 270 AH batteries. "

Take a look at LifeBlue Model LB12300-HC lithium batteries. I have 8 of them in my coach and 3320w of solar panels on my roof. I have been off grid full timing for about 16 months with them and have only used 7 cycles out of the 3000 guaranteed.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #18 – March 01, 2021, 05:57:17 pm

Quote from: cucotx – March 01, 2021, 05:51:18 pm

Oscar and Janet, that is great news. If I can, I would rather have the 295/80R22.5 as well. The 2004 U320 that I'm looking at is a 4020. I may have to give FOT a call.

Did you get a chance to change the drive and tag tires with the same tire as well?

Did all 8 tires - ouch $$$$

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #19 – March 01, 2021, 05:57:31 pm

Quote from: cucotx – March 01, 2021, 04:46:35 pm

So what I just realized is that the maximum load rating found with some "H" tires is going to be plenty for the coach. The GAWR for the front axle of the 2004 U320 is 14200 lbs. For my plans, I should never get close to that weight. So two tires that each have 7160 lbs rating is fine. I think the CCC of the coach is over 6000 lbs. As per Dan's entry above, his steer axle, while fulltiming, is under 12900 lbs. I don't plan to add much more than that to my coach, so that should keep me under the ratings of the "H" tires. My current plans is to add solar and lithium batteries to the coach. From the pictures that I have of the roof of the coach, most of those solar panels can only go towards the back section of the roof. That's weight for the rear axle to handle. The U320 already has a lot of other stuff mounted on the front section of the roof.

In addition to the solar panels, I plan to remove the 3 8D batteries in the coach and replace them with Lithium 8D batteries from Battleborn. Possibly, their new Lithium BB8D 8D sized 270 AH batteries. Those batteries are 80 lbs instead of the 8D batteries in the motorhome at over 140 lbs? So that will save some weight. If there is more room, I my add more Lithium batteries in other places in the coach. The lithium upgrade would definitely be nice for a trip to a Harvest Host or other boondocking scene. Three of the BB8D would provide about 800 AH at 12 V. That is definitely nice.
Pierce, I liked what you said about selecting the tire with the best casing and stiffest sidewall. I'll look at those specs for the Michelin, Toyo, Bridgestone and others. I also like the idea of going with the 295/75R22.5 instead of the 275/80R22.5. The wider tire would maximize how much rubber is on the road.

Peter,

There are always compromises when it comes to tires, ride, sidewall, pressure, casing durability, etc.

You have probably noticed that through the years, lower profile (aspect ratio) tires have become the way to go with each year finding lower and lower profile tires on street vehicle. The bigger footprint will stop, corner, and overall, handle better. The down side here is there is less distance between the rim/wheel and the ground so the tire will have less distance to flex. Suspensions have changed a lot with progressive shock absorbers and spring rates making the ride comfortable even with the short wheel to ground distance.

With an RV, there is going to be a bit of a difference between a 295/75 and a 275/80 but not much as far as ride goes. The additional width will stop better, etc. but the actual differences will vary between manufactures. The 295 may polish the bottom mount on the air bags on certain turns with the coach in a certain attitude but there is no harm done.

When you replace your airbags, most of the time you put on Firestone or Conti bags. Since Firestone is owned by Bridgestone, that's the parent company. With Conti, it's Continental Tire and Rubber, also the maker of excellent tires for big coaches or cars as well as other quality products. Even the Chinese are outsourcing some of their tires to other countries, so the country of origin is not that important.

The bottom line is that everyone wants a tire with a low failure rate, long casing life with minimum sidewall cracking as the tire ages, a good ride, good handling, a round tire that also takes the minimum amount of weights to balance, low noise and a tire that does well in all weather conditions.

Maxing out the pressure on an H rated tire may give a firmer ride than you like. We run our G load rated tires at 110 psi all the way around and find the ride is just fine. Others don't.

To get an idea of which tire does what, it pays to call around to large volume tire dealers. Here is an example of a tire shop I have called for information and pricing. I used 295/75R22.5, domestic and imported, steer and all position for the list here: Discount Import Steer 295/75R22.5 Tires for Sale, USTireOutlet.com

Pierce

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #20 – March 01, 2021, 06:27:38 pm

"Take a look at LifeBlue Model LB12300-HC lithium batteries. I have 8 of them in my coach and 3320w of solar panels on my roof."

I'll check the LifeBlue batteries. How did you manage to mount 3320w of solar on the FT?

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #21 – March 01, 2021, 06:33:11 pm

"How did you manage to mount 3320w of solar on the FT?"

I had AMSolar do the entire install for I do not have the tools or expertise. You can PM me for more info.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #22 – March 01, 2021, 06:53:07 pm

Quote from: cucotx – March 01, 2021, 04:46:35 pm

So what I just realized is that the maximum load rating found with some "H" tires is going to be plenty for the coach. The GAWR for the front axle of the 2004 U320 is 14200 lbs. For my plans, I should never get close to that weight. So two tires that each have 7160 lbs rating is fine. I think the CCC of the coach is over 6000 lbs. As per Dan's entry above, his steer axle load, while fully loaded for fulltiming, is under 12900 lbs. I don't plan to add much more than that to my coach, so that should keep me under the ratings of the "H" tires. My current plans is to add solar and lithium batteries to the coach. From the pictures that I have of the roof of the coach, most of those solar panels can only go towards the back section of the roof. That's weight for the rear axle to handle. The U320 already has a lot of other stuff mounted on the front section of the roof.

In addition to the solar panels, I plan to remove the 3 8D batteries in the coach and replace them with Lithium 8D batteries from Battleborn. Possibly, their new Lithium BB8D 8D sized 270 AH batteries. Those batteries are 80 lbs instead of the 8D batteries in the motorhome at over 140 lbs? So that will save some weight. If there is more room, I my add more Lithium batteries in other places in the coach. The lithium upgrade would definitely be nice for a trip to a Harvest Host or other boondocking scene. Three of the BB8D would provide about 800 AH of fully useable power at 12 V (9.6 KW-Hr). That is definitely nice.

Pierce, I liked what you said about selecting the tire with the best casing and stiffest sidewall. I'll look at those specs for the Michelin, Toyo, Bridgestone and others.

I also like the idea of going with the 295/75R22.5 instead of the 275/80R22.5. The wider tire would maximize how much rubber is on the road. But, I need to find an "H" rated 295 with a rating close to that of a 275/80R22.5 at 7160 lbs.

I have 1440 watts solar on my roof. That is included in the weights I provided above. One more panel was added since the pic - at passenger side front of coach.

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #23 – March 16, 2021, 06:26:57 pm

After much boring research into truck/bus tires, I have decided to go with 8 of the Michelin X COACH H LZ LRH, sized 295/80R22.5.

https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/X_COACH_HL_Z_datapg.pdf

Some of you are probably saying, overkill

. Even the salesman for the tires told me so. He was recommending something cheaper. But, it's what I usually do. I go overboard. Safety first.

BTW, I do have an email out to FOT to confirm that I can install the 295/80 on the 2004 U320 4020 before I order them.

I chose that tire for three reasons:

1 - I do like the idea of the wider 295 thread.

2 - The Michelin Infini-Coil technology for better contact with the road and its stronger casing.

3 - A load rating of 8270 lbs at 123 psi. This means that for the U320, I may be able to run the steering tires at 90 to 95 psi.

I also plan to install the Centramatic wheel balancing system. But I still need to read up on that. For now, I'm assuming that all 8 tires would need the Centramatics on it?

Re: Tires - Michelin 2004 U320 - Steer vs. Drive tires - 275/80R22.5 vs. 295/80R22.5

Reply #24 – March 16, 2021, 06:42:49 pm

I may be wrong, but those larger diameter tires may rub your mounting plates for your air springs. My 295 75R 22.5 tires just missed when turned to either side. Let us know.

Plus, hope you like the CentraMatics as much as I do on all 8 tires

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