Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

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Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

March 18, 2021, 12:41:48 am

We were packed and ready to head to the state beach this afternoon for a few days but I could not shift out of Neutral.
Shifting into R or D and just I get the blinking R or D. We have the WTEC III keypad. It has been 2 months since we last drove the coach.

No codes on the shifter pad: D1-,D2-,D3-,D4-,D5-

Checked transmission fluid via the dip stick and it reads normal.

I checked our 2 slides and all is clear. I also switched the override switch on the controller. I also tried to shift while holding the HWH reset button

I reseated all connectors at the transmission, the ECU, and the shift pad.

I disconnected the engine battery for a few minutes and reconnected

Brake lights work

No luck. I guess I'll be calling Transmission Instruments in the morning. Any other ideas?

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #1 – March 18, 2021, 12:50:21 am

On the maiden voyage from Denver to Salem we had something similar happen. Pulled in a rest stop and it wouldn't go back into gear.

Carpet under the gas pedal was raising the rpm just enough to tell the Allison "don't go into gear". ( credit to the forum for the solution).

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #2 – March 18, 2021, 01:44:17 am

Try warming the pad with a blow drier,but if that works you probably still need the rebuild,figure around $500,prices on website.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #3 – March 18, 2021, 01:58:15 am

Haven5 had this problem again after having my touchpad rebuilt by Transmission Instruments. Before having it rebuilt, I could warm it as John suggests with hair dryer. Mine would also warm enough with dash heat on high, but takes more time to warm up. Definitely a worthwhile update, even if something else is causing the problem. You won't regret doing it!

Sorry about the timing and problem! Hope you can enjoy your trip!

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #4 – March 18, 2021, 07:58:23 am

The problem that requires sending the equipment off to Transmission Instruments usually throws a code 69-32.

Idle speed too high is worth checking.

Warming ECU (not the touch pad) with hair dryer is always worth a try.

Trouble shooting guide here:

Troubleshooting

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #5 – March 18, 2021, 08:20:01 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 18, 2021, 07:58:23 am

The problem that requires sending the equipment off to Transmission Instruments usually throws a code 69-32.

Idle speed too high is worth checking.

Warming ECU (not the touch pad) with hair dryer is always worth a try.

Trouble shooting guide here:

Troubleshooting

That is the most likely issue. An interlock not functioning properly is next up. What is engine RPM when this happened? Any higher than normal engine RPM?

And, a d-1 of - - says there are no stored diagnostic codes.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #6 – March 18, 2021, 09:12:44 am

Ours never threw a code.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #7 – March 18, 2021, 09:35:43 am

The idle RPM was 700 as displayed on the dash tach and the Driver Information Center display.

It sounds like people have tried warming both the ECU and the shift pad. I will try the ECU then if no success the pad. I will say that in Southern California here it's not cold. We did have a low of 40 earlier this week and its 46 this morning.

Thanks for the help.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #8 – March 18, 2021, 11:02:21 am

I had the same problem when I had a Monaco. It would some times do that. According to Allison it would be over or under RPM
or an interlock. It would happen hot or cold. I would stop at a rest stop and then I couldn't get it back in gear. I never did find
out what it was. Never any codes. I would keep doing different things and would finally get in gear.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #9 – March 18, 2021, 04:02:20 pm

Heat didn't help.
It is definitely not the HWH slides or travel mode. With a slide out, I get dinging and no travel mode. When I bring the slide in dinging goes away and immediately goes to travel mode. So it seems it must be something more directly related to the transmission: speed sensor, TPS, shift pad or ECU.

Still waiting for calls back from FOT and Transmissions Instruments.

I did find this link for a manual for troubleshooting Allison 3000/4000 transmissions. I think it is a must download for anyone with one of these transmissions.
http://www.taurusfleetservices.com/images/AllisonTrouble/wtec3-Trouble.pdf

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #10 – March 20, 2021, 04:51:40 am

I had this problem 6 months ago. Slide wasn't fully closed. Happened a couple of times. Went through the process of cinching the slide fully in (red light out), transmission miraculously fixed. Hasn't happened again in quite a few slide open/close cycles since.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #11 – March 20, 2021, 01:05:59 pm

I spoke with John at Transmission Instruments yesterday. He believes that the keypad and ECU are fine. He said that fact that the keypad attempts to move from N to R or N to D and displays either a flashing N or 6, indicates that the keypad is sending the shift command to the ECU and the ECU is responding that it is inhibited. The keypad responds by flashing. He was still leaning toward the house systems being the source of the inhibit signal.

I also spoke to FOT support. They suggested to try holding the HWH Reset switch beside the driver and attempting to shift. I had actually already tried that to no success.

I have verified at the main HWH controller that the LED indicating Neutral Hold is off when the slides are in. It does come on when the slides are out. That and the fact that I also tried turning off the Neutral Hold Override rotational switch on the outside of the HWH control box lead me to believe that the transmission not shifting is due to some other sensor.

I think I will have to get someone out with an Allison Doc diagnostic reader to troubleshoot further. Hopefully I can find a mobile tech. The nearest Allison authorized shop is only about 8 miles away. I'll have to call and see if they have a mobile tech.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #12 – March 20, 2021, 02:16:36 pm

It could be the engine speed sensor. When I had the problem the Allison service rep said it is some kind of lookout. So there is an engine speed lockout and you have a slide lockout. I don't know if Foretravel uses any other lockouts. It would be nice to know if they
do. When I sold the coach the new buyer new of the problem and it cost me money.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #13 – March 23, 2021, 01:58:31 pm

Success via override!

I had a mobile tech out from Dartco (Welcome to Anaheim - Dartco Transmission). John has worked for Dartco for 39 years and was very efficient.

It ends up that the shift inhibit signal was being fed into the Allison controller in spite of the fact that it does not appear to be coming from the HWH controller (my assessment based on led off and/or override switch activated plus travel mode led lit). Via the Allison Doc software he could see that the inhibit signal was being input and that was what was preventing the shifting.

He was able to reprogram the controller to ignore that signal and we could then shift the transmission properly. I opted to leave that inhibit signal ignored for the time being. I will try to see if I can further identify any house cause. Perhaps there is a Foretravel signal that is separate from the HWH system? I'm not sure how I would actually test this further.

As part of the mobile visit fee I paid, John said he would come back out and restore the programming if I am able to cure the root cause.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #14 – March 23, 2021, 02:07:13 pm

Seems like coincidence, just got my transmission fixed yesterday

It is a Transmission Day!

Hope you didn't lose any sleep in the last few days!

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #15 – March 23, 2021, 03:31:21 pm

Quote from: bpal – March 23, 2021, 01:58:31 pm

It ends up that the shift inhibit signal was being fed into the Allison controller in spite of the fact that it does not appear to be coming from the HWH controller (my assessment based on led off and/or override switch activated plus travel mode led lit). Via the Allison Doc software he could see that the inhibit signal was being input and that was what was preventing the shifting.

Sometimes the only option left is to call in a Professional. Glad he was able to pinpoint the problem.

I wonder if the "inhibit signal" being sent to the Allison ECU is a positive voltage (ie 12 volt sent down the wire) OR is it negative voltage (ie circuit wire is grounded by a sensor). If the sensor generating the signal completes a ground circuit by closing, then the signal could also be generated by a worn insulation spot, anywhere in the wire between HWH box and Allison ECU, which allows the conductor to touch chassis ground.

Or something like that...... It made sense when I was thinking about it, but not so much now.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #16 – March 23, 2021, 03:34:55 pm

Quote from: bpal – March 23, 2021, 01:58:31 pm

He was able to reprogram the controller to ignore that signal and we could then shift the transmission properly. I opted to leave that inhibit signal ignored for the time being. I will try to see if I can further identify any house cause. Perhaps there is a Foretravel signal that is separate from the HWH system? I'm not sure how I would actually test this further.

What awning do you have? I vaguely recall from many years ago there might be an interlock between transmission and a Girard awning.... (but it would make more sense that it would be an interlock so the awning wouldn't operate if the coach was in gear rather than vice-versa)

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #17 – March 23, 2021, 05:48:54 pm

Quote from: Michelle – March 23, 2021, 03:34:55 pm

What awning do you have? I vaguely recall from many years ago there might be an interlock between transmission and a Girard awning.... (but it would make more sense that it would be an interlock so the awning wouldn't operate if the coach was in gear rather than vice-versa)

We do have the Girard main awning. I'll have to look into that. It makes sense that they might lock out putting it into gear if it still thinks the awning is extended. I would think I would get the dash chime though.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #18 – March 23, 2021, 05:52:18 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 23, 2021, 03:31:21 pm

I wonder if the "inhibit signal" being sent to the Allison ECU is a positive voltage (ie 12 volt sent down the wire) OR is it negative voltage (ie circuit wire is grounded by a sensor). If the sensor generating the signal completes a ground circuit by closing, then the signal could also be generated by a worn insulation spot, anywhere in the wire between HWH box and Allison ECU, which allows the conductor to touch chassis ground.

I do think the inhibit is closed connectivity between the signal pin and the signal ground pin. Something else to consider...

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #19 – March 23, 2021, 06:14:48 pm

One other thing,, at least on an older FT. The anti-lock braking system can effect the Allison performance.

Ours would lockout 4,5 and 6th gear if the anti-lock system sensed a problem.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #20 – June 13, 2021, 10:07:06 pm

I have had 4 times that the trans wouldn't go into gear and after a bit it would
go in. I think I will see if the Allison tech can shut down all lockouts except the over
speed lock out. The trans is also not shifting properly. Sometimes it is ruff and other
times it shifts slow.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #21 – June 13, 2021, 10:09:34 pm

Quote from: oldguy – June 13, 2021, 10:07:06 pm

I have had 4 times that the trans wouldn't go into gear and after a bit it would
go in. I think I will see if the Allison tech can shut down all lockouts except the over
speed lock out. The trans is also not shifting properly. Sometimes it is ruff and other
times it shifts slow.

What DIAGNOSTIC CODES do you show on the Allison shift pad?

And, when it wouldn't go into gear, was the "D" flashing? If so, engine RPM may have been too high.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #22 – June 14, 2021, 01:11:40 am

D and R was flashing and RPM 675. I had the same problem with the Monaco
I had. I never found out what it was and finally got rid of it. Tomorrow I will fix
the hydraulic hose and bring it home. The Allison Tech told me when I had the
problem with the Monaco that it should be a lock out and there is no codes.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #23 – June 14, 2021, 08:57:16 am

As Brett suggested, it can be too high an idle speed.
On my throttle return are 2 springs. I've found one of the ends broken off, and it just hanging. Replaced the springs, or bent new end hooks got things sorted out again.

Re: Allison 3000 stuck in neutral

Reply #24 – June 14, 2021, 09:13:25 am

Quote from: Dave Cobb – June 14, 2021, 08:57:16 am

As Brett suggested, it can be too high an idle speed.
On my throttle return are 2 springs. I've found one of the ends broken off, and it just hanging. Replaced the springs, or bent new end hooks got things sorted out again.

That's a good place to look, those broken springs are common and capable of causing all sorts of mischief when not right.

In addition, I had the same issue with failure to engage drive, turned out to be an old and, I thought abandoned, security system that was set to inhibit when activated.

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