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Topic: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?  (Read 574 times) previous topic - next topic

Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

 Seems like we never hear about brake can failure or replacement.  Has anyone changed their cans? 
  Mine look like new but the entire bottom of my coach does. 

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #1
That’s a great question !!I would like to know the answer myself 🚌
John Patrick
2002 U270

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #2
I hope this isn't a sign of bad things to come..........

I was actually thinking the same thing last week, there isn't much discussion about brake can bellows being an issue. Wondering if 25 years may be pushing the limits?

maybe now someone will chime in.................

Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #3
If you mean the brake chamber then it’s pretty rare.
Usual failure is the spring inside which is your parking brake will fracture but it’s contained so you don’t see it. You would notice lack of stroke when brakes released and lack of holding power. You can look in the end where the caging bolt goes and if the spring is off Center or the hole is blocked then likely the spring is broken. You can also use a mallet on the housing when the button is out and listen for it to rattle.

Next most common is the seal leaking on the shaft inside and allowing air that is releasing the park brake to enter the service brake. Usually you will notice the air then leaking out the quick release valve on the service side or maybe dragging brakes.

Both can be repaired with a piggyback which is the back half of the chamber but should be done by some one who knows how to take it apart without everything under tension. The spring in the piggy back is approx 1800 pounds of pressure.

Next would likely be the front of the chamber rotting out I doubt you will ever encounter it in your environments but they can rot out where they bolt onto the bracket.


 
Toby a 94 u280
Cummins 8.3
6 speed Allison
Exhaust brake


Adopted by Derek and Annabelle

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #4
25 years take a good look inside to see if springs are broken. They aren’t horribly expensive and are not huge labour to replace.
Toby a 94 u280
Cummins 8.3
6 speed Allison
Exhaust brake


Adopted by Derek and Annabelle

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #5
25 years take a good look inside to see if springs are broken. They aren’t horribly expensive and are not huge labour to replace.

Thanks Toby for the info..... I'll check that out.  Our park brakes hold quite well so I think we are probably OK.  ^.^d
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #6
I had a DD3 can failure when stopped looking at marmots in Rocky Mountain NP in my 4107 Buffalo bus. I had set the parking brake but when I came back to the coach. The brakes would not release. I tried and tried and on about the 50th attempt, they released. The rest of the trip home was fine. I had a Woodmizer lumber mill hitched on so would have been in .... city if they hand not released. After that, I found a place that was level and parked it in gear.

So, taking the can apart is super easy IF YOU CAGE THE SPRING or you could injure or kill yourself if you try and take the can apart. Lots of videos on how to do it.

I just ordered new rubber diaphragms, spring and think that was about it. I used some phosphoric acid to get the corrosion off, sprayed it with zinc chromate and put it back together.

After buying the bus in Fall River, MA, and selling the seats to a bus company in Nantucket, I bought the lumber mill in Iowa and then hit Rocky Mountain NP. That and three flat tires were about the only thing to go wrong with the bus in 15 years.

I do have a photo of my bus in front of Wall Street, NYC on the way home. Right after that, I tried to cross the Brooklyn Bridge but was too tall and had to back against traffic to get off. Lots of trouble with police.

I would advise against putting larger cans on as it was designed around the existing size cans. Going larger in the rear could lock it up before the fronts on a slippery road.

Pierce


Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #7
I had a rear fail on me several years ago. Left rear brake engaged from the spring while driving. Replaced both rears at the time  ( bought cans and hoses at NAPA). Replacing the front cans is someplace on the too do list.
NOTE: Separating the cans springs and capturing is VERY dangerous. The cans don't cost that much, better to replace the entire can than try and just replace the spring.
1995 U320C SE 40'
Jeep 4x4 Commander - Limited - Hemi
"The Pack"  Yogi and Diesel our Airedales -  Charlie our Boxer/Akita mix. Gone but NEVER forgotten Jake our yellow Lab.
NRA Law Enforcement Firearms instructor - Handgun/shotgun
Regional Firearms instructor for national Armored Transp. Co.

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #8
I seriously doubt you can even buy springs and gaskets (Pancakes ) any more. The complete cans are so cheap.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 840 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #9
Lon and Bruce,

Pancakes are available for only $3 to $5 at NAPA https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWRHD30DLS

Opening a can a no brainer with zero possibility of danger if they are caged and it only takes a minute or so to do it. Truckers change them all the time and carry this tool. Amazon's $9 air brake can caging tool/bolt: https://www.amazon.com/179-4019-Caging-Bolt-Assembly-Chamber/dp/B079JZN3D6

If you blow a diaphragm, the brakes will come on automatically and you will be stuck at the side of the road until you can cap the air line or cage the can. Here is a video with an example of what happens when a pancake/diaphragm blows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjbCFx-bG5o

Pierce


Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof


Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #11
There is caging "tool" on each air brake can. No need to purchase one.

Roland
Yes, at least there should be, but I advise checking before you need it to ensure it is actually there.  I had one missing. You also need to use these if you require a tow to ensure the parking brake does not engage due to lack of air pressure.
40ft 1997 U320

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #12
Yes, they do have a tool built in the side. I was thinking of my old bus. Here is the can with the tool. Take off the nut and push it up and out. Don't take off any other nuts!!!  Think I will pull ours off and take the wire wheel to it to make sure it will remove easily and be ready just in case.

Pierce
Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #13
Tell me how you will “cage” service brake return spring, the tool only cages the parking brake. Again as inexpensive as they are why would you attempt to rebuild one. I’ll bet there is not a trucker on the road today that knows how to rebuild a brake chamber.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 840 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #14
Yes, they do have a tool built in the side. I was thinking of my old bus. Here is the can with the tool. Take off the nut and push it up and out. Don't take off any other nuts!!!  Think I will pull ours off and take the wire wheel to it to make sure it will remove easily and be ready just in case.

Pierce
You have to air up the release chamber for the pin to drop into the retainer hole. Or you may use the cage bolt into the rear of the spring brake . And also fit the side safety bolt, if you like . 

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #15
Tell me how you will “cage” service brake return spring, the tool only cages the parking brake. Again as inexpensive as they are why would you attempt to rebuild one. I’ll bet there is not a trucker on the road today that knows how to rebuild a brake chamber.
Truckers are a lot brighter and more resourceful than the can't change a light bulb or can't drive a stick transmission people that have populated our world today. Our U300 has the double brake chamber style can with the two clamps. Here is a video showing how to rebuild the other side. Most late brake cans don't and are sealed on the parking brake side so no service is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oECE9nyEmsE

Here is an animated video on exactly how the two chambers operate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oECE9nyEmsE

Pierce
Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #16
Tell me how you will “cage” service brake return spring, the tool only cages the parking brake.
Caging the brake disables both the service and parking brake. At least on my 93 Foretravel.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #17
Caging the brake disables both the service and parking brake. At least on my 93 Foretravel.

Roland
It shouldn't,
 The spring brake is separate from the service brake system. I have blown diaphragms in both system at different times. Service diaphragm blown air leak and no stopping power on that can. Parking brake diaphragm blown meant I had to cage that can and lose one wheel of parking brake until I changed the diaphragm. I carried 4 spares in the crane and had to replace on the road many times. Much easier with the 13 speed as in granny it wasn't going anywhere while I changed them.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #18
I didn't know that a maxi brake could be serviced any more. I went out and checked my coach and they can be serviced. Years ago
they made them so the parking brake part couldn't be taken apart so I'm surprised that these could be taken apart. 
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #19
Most of the new cans cannot be taken apart. Ours are nice as for $10, they can be like new. The spring on the actuating rod is only to return it so it's pretty weak. The parking spring is the strong one. I worried until I did my first one and then wondered what all the fuss was about. The new ones are made that way because so many people just took the clamp off without caging it and badly injured themselves. Also, probably the reason the caging tool is included with the can. Great idea.

What I really miss is the hand valve on the steering column. The first ones didn't have a return spring so would stay in any position but they got smart and put a return spring on them so you could not get out of the truck without setting the parking brake. They only work on the back wheels as I remember.

Pierce
Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #20
Pierce, we used to call them Johnny bars back in the 70s only activated the trailer brakes. Used to use them a lot on ice and snow, especially if the trailer tried to get ahead of you.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 840 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #21
We were all Detroit 2 cycles with manual transissions in the 1970's. Since our town has lots of hills, the "Johnny Bar" was always used to keep from rolling back. You can imagine the new rookies straight from auto Hondas. The early Macks had juice brakes and when they would roll back on a steep hill, the new guys occasionally would panic and dump the clutch and then we heard the ping from the rear axle as it snapped.

If a mechanical Detroit rolled back and stalled, you could not let it go back any further as the engine would start but running backwards using the air cleaner for a muffler.

Pierce
Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #22
The original maxi brakes needed to be taken apart in a special clamp and if I remember right there was a ring of bolts around
the brake that held them together. They were deadly. In the logging trucks the dump valve worked opposite to the ones on
our coaches. So when you wanted to apply the maxi brake you would push the valve.  
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #23
AnchorLok (rear brakes) was on all fire trucks. I remember I would push it when about 100 feet from a fire, shift to 4th and engage the pump all as we stopped. Anytime we parked the apparatus, the AnchorLoks were used like our parking brake in our Foretravels.

We also had a reserve air tank so we could pull it up to pressurize the system to get out of the station in case of an air leak caused the parking brake to be engaged. Since both buttons were almost next to each other, the AnchorLok pushed down and the reserve air pulled up.

We also had a special brake on the juice brake trucks that would lock up all wheels. Engaged it and pushed hard on the brake pedal. The truck would not move. Can't remember the name.

Pierce
Pierce,  Gaylie and Koda
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof

Re: Has anyone experienced a brake can failure?

Reply #24
 Serviced the rear axle seal ( Stemco 2102 )and rebuilt the rear brake for the driver side. Tested the wedge brakes yesterday. Heard an air hiss from the rear most can. Popped the airline off and clamp, out comes the pancake diaphragm . Type 16 on the label , no real flaws. My guess is that the clamp was only snug.  Bought 2 at NAPA for 7$ and reloaded the can.