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Topic: Battery charging (Read 2507 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Battery charging

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Yurre –
Hey guys, I'm looking for some info on how the battery charging system works on my 92 320
while plugged in at home.  50 amp line to the MH.  I have 3 new 8d batteries all connected
together.
So now, having seen your two photos, I can tell you my opinion of how your charging system should work while plugged in at home.

You have three batteries, all connected together.  The PD9180 has two functions.  It is a battery charger, and it is a 12 volt power supply.  It must be plugged into (or hard wired to) a 110V power source to function.

IF your PD9180 is connected to a 110V outlet, and IF it is connected to one of the 3 batteries, and IF the coach is plugged into 50 amp shore power, then all three batteries should receive a charging current.

The PD9180 in base configuration is a "dumb" battery charger.  It may not provide the optimal charge rate for your new batteries.  There is a optional add-on module called a Charge Wizard that will upgrade the PD9180 to a "smart" battery charger.  If you do not already have this module added to your converter/charger, it would be highly recommended.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Doug W. –
1992 Unihomes and earlier had one battery bay. One of those 8d batteries is the start battery. Someone may have tied them altogether by the looks of the red jumper cable. Do all have equal voltage?
Yes they do.  And they are new.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
So now, having seen your two photos, I can tell you my opinion of how your charging system should work while plugged in at home.

You have three batteries, all connected together.  The PD9180 has two functions.  It is a battery charger, and it is a 12 volt power supply.  It must be plugged into (or hard wired to) a 110V power source to function.

IF your PD9180 is connected to a 110V outlet, and IF it is connected to one of the 3 batteries, and IF the coach is plugged into 50 amp shore power, then all three batteries should receive a charging current.

The PD9180 in base configuration is a "dumb" battery charger.  It may not provide the optimal charge rate for your new batteries.  There is a optional add-on module called a Charge Wizard that will upgrade the PD9180 to a "smart" battery charger.  If you do not already have this module added to your converter/charger, it would be highly recommended.


Cool, where would I get this upgrade module?

Re: Battery charging

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Might as well start out by using the correct terminology.  The PD9180 is not a inverter - it is a convertor/charger.  See description linked below:

PD9180A - 80 Amp Electronic Power Converter - Progressive Dynamics

If you DO have a inverter on your coach, it is located in another place.  It might possibly look like the Taytronics pictured below (in the storage bay under the entry steps):





yes I have the inverter in the bay with the compressor

Re: Battery charging

Reply #25 –

I just replaced our converter/charger with the Progressive Dynamics 45 amp model. Amazon.com: Progressive Dynamics PD9245CV Inteli-Power 9200 Series Converter/.... It does come with the Charge Wizard pendent linked to on Chuck's post above. I've never been able to keep the charge voltage at the 13.2 volts float voltage with the old WFCO model. The solar controller worked OK but since it is off at night, the voltage really varies. I didn't need even 45 amps as the solar controller keeps the batteries charged rapidly each morning.

The Progressive Dynamics converter/chargers get outstanding reviews and since the house batteries would be expensive to replace, I used the Foretravel link for Amazon to make the purchase.

If you do the installation hot, it's easy to get a lot of sparks when you use the Allen wrench to install the cables into the converter. I ordered a battery switch at the same time, made a couple of cables for the in and out of the switch and then used the handy dandy hydraulic crimper to install the copper lugs. I was then able to shut off the + supply to the new converter when I installed the new cables.

The only down side is the Charge Wizard's phone cable is way too short to reach up into the coach. Read the Amazon specs on the converter and the reviews. They give a good user experience.

I use a coiled cable to run between the two lighter plugs to keep the voltage up on the engine batteries. You can see the readings for the coach AGM on the top LED and the three conventional engine batteries. Each lighter plug is fused and each end of the plugs has a 5 amp fuse so there is no danger of a fire. I unplug while traveling but if staying at any campsite, I plug both back in again.

The unit seems quite bright and charges at several float voltages before settling down at close to the advertised 13.2v. It does give a conditioning charge of 14.4v for 15 minutes once a day.

Now I have the old converter for a battery charger in the garage.

About $200 delivered for both the converter and the 12V switch. Be sure to use the Amazon link provided on the forum page.

Again, top voltage is coach, bottom is engine batteries. It's been a week or so and the voltages are stable.

Pierce

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Yurre –
I have the inverter in the bay with the compressor.
The INVERTER uses battery power to provide 110V power to the coach when it is not plugged into shore power or when the generator is not running.  When using the inverter, you must monitor the voltage on your "combined" battery bank so that it does not drop too low.

The biggest problem with having all three of your batteries tied together is that it is possible for them to be depleted to a point where you cannot start the big engine or the generator.  To avoid this situation, your coach was originally equipped with the battery isolator which separated the two battery circuits.

It is not "wrong" to have all three batteries tied together, but it requires additional vigilance on the part of the owner.  If your coach will be plugged into shore power most of the time, it probably won't be a problem.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #27 –
That coach originally had 2 house batteries 8D and 1 engine battery 8D in the same compartment. Someone apparently tied them all together. Not a good idea as that is a single bank so if one goes down they will all be down. I would figure out how it was originally wired and then correct the wiring. There should be a battery isolator located on the frame behind the left rear wheel accessible through the small door behind the left rear wheel.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #28 –
Too bad the forum is B&W or you could see my red face.

Pierce

Re: Battery charging

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
The INVERTER uses battery power to provide 110V power to the coach when it is not plugged into shore power or when the generator is not running.  When using the inverter, you must monitor the voltage on your "combined" battery bank so that it does not drop too low.

The biggest problem with having all three of your batteries tied together is that it is possible for them to be depleted to a point where you cannot start the big engine or the generator.  To avoid this situation, your coach was originally equipped with the battery isolator which separated the two battery circuits.

It is not "wrong" to have all three batteries tied together, but it requires additional vigilance on the part of the owner.  If your coach will be plugged into shore power most of the time, it probably won't be a problem.


I got ya.  So in reality the inverter would be seldom used maybe for lights in an emergency.
Good information and thank you!

Re: Battery charging

Reply #30 –
Quote from: red tractor –
That coach originally had 2 house batteries 8D and 1 engine battery 8D in the same compartment. Someone apparently tied them all together. Not a good idea as that is a single bank so if one goes down they will all be down. I would figure out how it was originally wired and then correct the wiring. There should be a battery isolator located on the frame behind the left rear wheel accessible through the small door behind the left rear wheel.
I am with you RT.  Better to have a starting battery in worst case.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Yurre –
So in reality the inverter would be seldom used maybe for lights in an emergency.
Actually, in our era coaches, the original modified sine wave inverter was used to power quite a few devices.

In our coach, the original Taytronics control panel switched between two circuits.  One circuit powered the microwave plug-in receptacle - the other powered the ice maker, TVs, VCR, chandelier, (optional) Gaggeneau gas burner ignitors, (optional) blender, plus one inside and one outside duplex outlet.  The control panel allowed the owner to choose which circuit they wanted to use.  See photo below:

In the 110V electrical circuit diagram linked below, see under the NOTES notation #3:

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=3266#viewitem

Back in the day, modified sine wave inverters worked OK, although on our coach the Taytronics never seemed very "happy" running the OEM microwave.  If you plan to power any "sensitive" electronic devices with the inverter, you might consider an upgrade to a pure sine wave model.  See below for more general info:

What is a Sine Wave Inverter? – The Inverter Store

Re: Battery charging

Reply #32 –
On my 1992 U280 the start battery is on the left and the coach batteries are on the right as viewed from the picture you posted.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #33 –
I removed the OEM Taytronics MSW inverter a few months ago and installed my old Trace inverter and a new pure sine wave inverter. I did have to modify the wiring at the changeover box because of the Taytronics switch. Saying that because you can't just install a new inverter where the old one was and have it work correctly.

The OEM inverter worked flawlessly since the coach was built but used a lot of juice at idle. As soon as it was powered on, the voltmeter took a dive. The new sine wave inverter goes just to the microwave and the big wall TV with the Trace powering everything else. Both are much more efficient. The Trace surprisingly so since I purchased it in 1989. It pulses ever second to see if anything is on and then turns itself on. Even when on. it does not draw much current. I still have more wiring to do.

REMOTE SWITCH FOR INVERTERS WITHOUT A PORT: If you buy or have most any inverter without a remote switch, I found a trick to run a telephone type wire and turn the inverter on or off from most anywhere in the coach. It even works on the '89 Trace inverter. Your inverter does NOT have to have a port for a plug but you will need to pull the cover to connect a set of wires to the on/off switch. I can post a DIY for inverters without a port for a remote switch. With a port, it's a no brainer plug and play.

Pierce

Re: Battery charging

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
I removed the OEM Taytronics MSW inverter a few months ago and installed my old Trace inverter and a new pure sine wave inverter. I did have to modify the wiring at the changeover box because of the Taytronics switch. Saying that because you can't just install a new inverter where the old one was and have it work correctly.

The OEM inverter worked flawlessly since the coach was built but used a lot of juice at idle. As soon as it was powered on, the voltmeter took a dive. The new sine wave inverter goes just to the microwave and the big wall TV with the Trace powering everything else. Both are much more efficient. The Trace surprisingly so since I purchased it in 1989. It pulses ever second to see if anything is on and then turns itself on. Even when on. it does not draw much current. I still have more wiring to do.

REMOTE SWITCH FOR INVERTERS WITHOUT A PORT: If you buy or have most any inverter without a remote switch, I found a trick to run a telephone type wire and turn the inverter on or off from most anywhere in the coach. It even works on the '89 Trace inverter. Your inverter does NOT have to have a port for a plug but you will need to pull the cover to connect a set of wires to the on/off switch. I can post a DIY for inverters without a port for a remote switch. With a port, it's a no brainer plug and play.

Pierce

What size inverter should I look for?

Re: Battery charging

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Yurre –
What size inverter should I look for?

Depends on:

What you want to be able to run (120 VAC appliance).

Size, state of charge and condition of your battery bank. Discharging below 50% SOC (State Of Charge) materially shortens battery life.

And, the inverter can not be realistically used to run high-amp loads like roof A/C.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #36 –
Do a search on P. Wyatt Sabourin for inverter information. He makes the most sense. And you will save money.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #37 –
With only a few exceptions, an updated RV with flat screen LED TV, LED lights, etc. will require less power today than when built. Old inverters used transformers and rectifiers, were very heavy and produced a modified sine wave that while working well for lights, most TVs, resistance heating, tools, etc. didn't work well for microwave ovens and other electronic items.

They do have an advantage in that a 1500 watt OEM Taytronics inverter will work better on something like a small compressor with a high startup load.

Having said that, it's best to purchase the largest pure sine wave inverter you can afford. But since many suppliers lie, it's mandatory to read all the reviews as found on Amazon and then pick the best for your requirements.

We are 36 feet long so no washer/dryer. Our TV is 50 inches but LED so not much draw there. All lighting is LED so again, low draw. We do have two Senco 110V compressors onboard that are used to air tires and run impacts and staple guns as an example. Either the 1500 watt MSW (modified sine wave) Trace or the new 1500 watt sine wave inverter will instantly start the compressors. The pure SW inverter cuts the MW time drastically so it not only cooks faster but much less inverter time at the high output is needed to get the food cooked. But, I had to run a couple of new Romex cables to feed the MW and TV from the new inverter plus telephone cable to turn both inverters on and off. We have a Norcold RV fridge so that is not a factor in power consumption.

I'm not a fan of the converter/inverter units as I don't like to put all the eggs in one basket plus on older Foretravels, the inverter and converter are on opposite sides of the coach and would require a major wiring change to fit one of these units.

So, like Brett says, don't plan on an inverter to be able to run even one roof AC unit. While deep discharge will shorten the life of your coach batteries, installation of solar panels on the roof will keep the discharge to a minimum and you will not longer have to run the generator except for AC. If you are handy, purchasing and installing 1200 watts of solar will not cost more than $1500 for everything. Plenty of room on the roof of your U300 for even more than that.

Read as much as you can about inverters, read the reviews plus you can see a lot of inverters in action on YouTube videos.

We have had inverters and solar starting back in 1989 and on our U300 since 2008. I have posts with the sources and prices back when I did the installation. Everything still works as installed 13 years later.

Pierce



Re: Battery charging

Reply #38 –
Thanks for all the info folks!
Today's project- new tranny oil cooler on my 97 F250 :(
Then back to the FT.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Yurre –
Then back to the FT.
Before you spend a bunch of money (and time and effort) replacing your old inverter, it would be a good idea to think about how you will use your coach.  With your coach in stock factory configuration, you will only NEED to use your inverter if you do not have a shore power hookup AND you do not want to run the generator.  How often will you be in that situation?

If, when traveling, you spend most or all nights at campgrounds with 30 or 50 amp shore power connections, then you won't need a new inverter.  If you tend to camp mostly in the HOT summer months, and you don't have shore power hookups, you will be running your generator to power the roof air conditioners.  In that case, you won't need to use the inverter.

The most likely time that you would want the inverter is when boondocking in cool weather conditions where the roof air is not needed.  THAT is when you will appreciate a good inverter, AND a large capacity battery bank.  Using the inverter to power ac loads avoids having to listen to the irritating (to you and other campers) racket made by the generator.  Of course, there is no free lunch.  If you deplete your batteries running the inverter, you will eventually need to recharge them.  If you are driving every day, you can let the alternator do the recharge work.  If camped in one spot for multiple days, you'll probably need to run the generator for several hours each day, but you can do it in the middle of the day when the noise will be less annoying to everyone.

Of course, as Pierce suggests, you can always add solar to supplement the generator, but that is another subject entirely.

All I'm saying is think about how you will use your coach, come up with a long-term plan, and then spend your upgrade money where it will do you the most good.