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Topic: Battery charging (Read 2506 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Battery charging

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Before you spend a bunch of money (and time and effort) replacing your old inverter, it would be a good idea to think about how you will use your coach.  With your coach in stock factory configuration, you will only NEED to use your inverter if you do not have a shore power hookup AND you do not want to run the generator.  How often will you be in that situation?

If, when traveling, you spend most or all nights at campgrounds with 30 or 50 amp shore power connections, then you won't need a new inverter.  If you tend to camp mostly in the HOT summer months, and you don't have shore power hookups, you will be running your generator to power the roof air conditioners.  In that case, you won't need to use the inverter.

The most likely time that you would want the inverter is when boondocking in cool weather conditions where the roof air is not needed.  THAT is when you will appreciate a good inverter, AND a large capacity battery bank.  Using the inverter to power ac loads avoids having to listen to the irritating (to you and other campers) racket made by the generator.  Of course, there is no free lunch.  If you deplete your batteries running the inverter, you will eventually need to recharge them.  If you are driving every day, you can let the alternator do the recharge work.  If camped in one spot for multiple days, you'll probably need to run the generator for several hours each day, but you can do it in the middle of the day when the noise will be less annoying to everyone.

Of course, as Pierce suggests, you can always add solar to supplement the generator, but that is another subject entirely.

All I'm saying is think about how you will use your coach, come up with a long-term plan, and then spend your upgrade money where it will do you the most good.



Very good points.  I will stick with my stock inverter for now.
Thanks for the words of wisdom...

Re: Battery charging

Reply #41 –
Many of the good modern inverters also have a built in multi-stage battery charger. If you are considering upgrading the existing converter/charger (which you should do because they are battery cookers) and are also wanting a pure sine wave inverter (many modern electronics require that) then you have the option of replacing those two units with a single inverter/charger...I have one and it works perfectly...this is my third project vehicle that I've used AIMS inverter chargers on and haven't had a single failure..

Re: Battery charging

Reply #42 –
Quote from: len.barron –
Many of the good modern inverters also have a built in multi-stage battery charger. If you are considering upgrading the existing converter/charger (which you should do because they are battery cookers) and are also wanting a pure sine wave inverter (many modern electronics require that) then you have the option of replacing those two units with a single inverter/charger...I have one and it works perfectly...this is my third project vehicle that I've used AIMS inverter chargers on and haven't had a single failure..
Nice installation.  Was it hard to combine all wiring into one location? Or did you have to?
Or should I maybe just replace the converter charger.  I did order a smart
charge adapter add on suggested by another member.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #43 –
Quote from: Yurre –
I did order a smart charge adapter...
Wait until you get the Charge Wizard - try it - see how it works.  The charger you have will probably work just fine.

Are your 3 new batteries AGM or are they traditional "flooded" wet cells (the kind with removable caps so you can add water)?

Re: Battery charging

Reply #44 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Wait until you get the Charge Wizard - try it - see how it works.  The charger you have will probably work just fine.

Are your 3 new batteries AGM or are they traditional "flooded" wet cells (the kind with removable caps so you can add water)?


They are old style flooded with removable caps.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #45 –
Quote from: Yurre –
They are old style flooded with removable caps.

Your coach came originally with a battery box, the lower portion in your picture has deteriorated somewhat. Do you still have the top section? When covered the top portion has a vent hole which a 2" pipe  attaches to vent wet cell batteries. Pretty easy to rebuild bottom section with fiberglass but will have to be taken out to repair.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #46 –
Quote from: Doug W. –
Your coach came originally with a battery box, the lower portion in your picture has deteriorated somewhat. Do you still have the top section? When covered the top portion has a vent hole which a 2" pipe  attaches to vent wet cell batteries. Pretty easy to rebuild bottom section with fiberglass but will have to be taken out to repair.
Yes I do have the cover intact.  The bottom is a little better that it looks.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #47 –
Quote from: Yurre –
Was it hard to combine all wiring into one location? Or did you have to?

No rewiring required, I simply removed the converter/charger completely. Plugged the new inverter in where the old charger used to plug in. Removed old inverter and used that same wiring for the new one.  The one bit of rewiring I did do was to put the refrigerator on one of the circuits that the inverter supplies (I have no idea why Foretravel didn't do that) as I always use the inverter to run my fridge while driving (unless I have the generator fired up to run roof air cond.).

Re: Battery charging

Reply #48 –
Quote from: len.barron –
.......The one bit of rewiring I did do was to put the refrigerator on one of the circuits that the inverter supplies (I have no idea why Foretravel didn't do that) as I always use the inverter to run my fridge while driving (unless I have the generator fired up to run roof air cond.).


If FT did not put the 110v supply to the refrigerator thru the inverter on your 1988, it would have been to save the batteries from unnecessary drain.  My 1997 original refrigerator compartment had two 110v plug outlets, one wired thru the inverter and one not,  so I had a choice.  This of course applied to my Norcold, before I installed my current residential refrigerator. I connected my current residential refrigerator to the available inverter 110v outlet.  Another consideration might have been that in 1988 few rvs charged the house batteries while driving, they only charged the chassis batteries as you drove down the road.

In today's world, with higher propane cost per gallon, with more available ah house battery systems, and the many option choices we now have to charge our batteries, posibly this is no longer a necessity. 

Re: Battery charging

Reply #49 –
Driving down the road, the Norcold is on propane but when we stop at a camp site, I turn on the inverter and push the fridge mode button to AC. At night when we turn the inverter off, it auto switches back to propane. Turning on the inverter auto switches the the fridge supply 110V outlet to be hot if not plugged into shore power.

Propane at the house ranges from $.95 to $2.00 a gallon depending on the season and the market. Since we have a Suburban Propane account, we can stop at one of their locations and get the association price. Love having the choice between the two energy sources.

Pierce

Re: Battery charging

Reply #50 –
Quote from: Yurre –
They are old style flooded with removable caps.
Your PD9180, after you add the Charge Wizard pendant, should work great with those batteries.  It will have a charging profile that is well suited to the flooded wet cells.  See page linked below.

Charge Wizard, 4-Stage Battery Charging System

It is imperative that you regularly check the electrolyte level in the batteries.  If you let them run dry it will ruin them.  Period.  See the excerpt below from the Trojan Battery web page:

Flooded batteries need water.

More importantly, watering must be done at the right time and in the right amount or the battery's performance and longevity suffers.

Water should always be added after fully charging the battery. Prior to charging, there should be enough water to cover the plates. If the battery has been discharged (partially or fully), the water level should also be above the plates. Keeping the water at the correct level after a full charge will prevent having to worry about the water level at a different state of charge.

Depending on the local climate, charging methods, application, etc., Trojan recommends that batteries be checked once a month until you get a feel for how often your batteries need watering.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #51 –
You have to check to see if you have removable caps or two flat plates that would have to be pried off. The only others in most common use are AGM and GEL batteries and they will have that written on the side. Most cars come with "maintenance free" batteries and don't need to we watered. Here is a quote:

Non-maintenance-free batteries (also called a "wet-cell" battery) are easily identified by the removable filler caps on the top of the battery. Battery fluid in NMF batteries needs to be regularly checked and topped off. Non-maintenance-free batteries come with six individual fill caps or two caps covering three cells each.

Maintenance-free batteries are also easily identifiable because they do not have filler caps. A large, plain unremovable flat cover encases the battery housing and may be labeled with the words "Maintenance Free." Today, virtually all new cars come standard with maintenance-free batteries. While maintenance-free batteries do not need to be topped off, you may still want to test your battery from time to time to ensure good performance.

Our U300 has three 31 series conventional batteries that are maintenance free. I never check them and they should last 8 to 12 years if kept charged. Our six house batteries are AGM type and are also maintenance free. I also never check these. They are about 13 years old and work as well as when installed.

I do check the connections and battery posts on the engine batteries to make sure there is no corrosion a couple times a year.

Do I Need to Top Off My Battery Fluid? | The Family Handyman

Pierce

Re: Battery charging

Reply #53 –
Additional clarification:

Most "Maintenance Free" batteries have removable flat cell covers that try to recycle any evaporation and can be checked for proper water level.

All "AGM" & "GEL" are Sealed and cannot be opened. In fact, opening them will destroy internal pressure required for them to work.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #54 –
 The pic shows the grounds connected. The red cable connects the outer positives but the center positive fades into the solenoid area. All 3 may not be linked . IMHO

Re: Battery charging

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Protech Racing –
The pic shows the grounds connected. The red cable connects the outer positives but the center positive fades into the solenoid area. All 3 may not be linked . IMHO
Good pick up Mike, I'll have to investigate further. 

Re: Battery charging

Reply #56 –
Quote from: Yurre –
Good pick up Mike, I'll have to investigate further. 
Quote from: Protech Racing –
The pic shows the grounds connected. The red cable connects the outer positives but the center positive fades into the solenoid area. All 3 may not be linked . IMHO

Mike et al,
Well after all, it appears that the center battery is not connected to the other two.  On finding the coach with low power
for cranking, I tested the middle 8d and it was low.  I guess the middle battery is the start battery.
The booster enabled me to crank the engine.
So does the booster need to be on to charge that 3rd battery?  I now have the charge wizard connected and  I am connected to shore power.  What is the draw back to this setup?  Should I convert back to the original?
 Thanks in advance.  Y

Re: Battery charging

Reply #57 –
Quote from: Yurre –
I guess the middle battery is the start battery.
The booster enabled me to crank the engine.
So does the booster need to be on to charge that 3rd battery?
Normally, the answer would be YES.  However, we don't know if (or how) the wiring has been altered (modified) on your coach.

In stock configuration, the BOOST switch activates a solenoid that connects the Start (chassis) battery to the Coach (house) batteries.

In stock configuration, the factory installed battery charger is only directly connected to the Coach (house) batteries.

In stock configuration, the BOOST switch must be ON if you want the factory installed battery charger to charge the Start battery.

In stock configuration, all three batteries should charged by the alternator, through the battery isolator, when the big engine is running.

Re: Battery charging

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie –
Normally, the answer would be YES.  However, we don't know if (or how) the wiring has been altered (modified) on your coach.

In stock configuration, the BOOST switch activates a solenoid that connects the Start (chassis) battery to the Coach (house) batteries.

In stock configuration, the factory installed battery charger is only directly connected to the Coach (house) batteries.

In stock configuration, the BOOST switch must be ON if you want the factory installed battery charge to charge the Start battery.

In stock configuration, BOTH battery sets should charged by the alternator, through the battery isolator, when the big engine is running.


I got ya. 
Well I turned on the boost and the 'start' battery shows a charge voltage.
I'll let it go for a while and see if it is taking the charge.  Also, what does the off/on switch at the door effect as far as battery usage?  Is it ok to leave it on while connected to shore power and not occupied?  Which batteries does it turn off/on?

Re: Battery charging

Reply #59 –
Quote from: Yurre –
...what does the off/on switch at the door effect as far as battery usage?  Is it ok to leave it on while connected to shore power and not occupied?  Which batteries does it turn off/on?
The switch at the door is called the "Salesman Switch".  It is powered by the Coach (house) batteries.

Why is it called the Salesman Switch?  I was told:  When a coach is For Sale - sitting on a dealer lot - it makes a better impression on potential buyers to step into a brightly lite coach.  The salesman would turn on all the interior lights, then (to conserve battery power) turn OFF the Salesman Switch when he exited the coach.  Later, when he takes the customers to look inside the coach, he opens the door and cuts on the switch.  Voila!  Customers enter a bright cheerful coach.

Leaving the Salesman Switch on all the time is no problem.  The one on our coach has not been turned off in over 7 years.

The Salesman Switch occasionally gets turned off accidentally, by kids or pets or careless owners.  Causes considerable consternation until discovered.

You have to refer to the B-2126 Automotive Wiring Diagram for your coach to find out exactly what is controlled by the Salesman Switch.  It typically cuts power to such things as interior lights, storage bay lights, the water pump, some items on the dash, etc.